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Esinn -> Fact or Faith? (7/7/2009 3:06:46 PM)
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First let me say to kill an innocent family or to slaughter a tribe of people is recognized as 'a bummer' by the least intelligent humans and an absolute atrocity by others. To do this one must have great faith and strong belief such actions are justifiable and necessaty in their hearts or the eyes of another.
Puritan massacres of the Pequot Indian tribe on May 26, 1637, and again on July 14, 1637
The people responsible for these well documented actions believed they were doing what was right and absolutely necessary. Some may have enjoyed the process of murder. I speculate as all were human they questioned their own actions. But an incorrect belief or misguided/corrupted faith that pressed them on. In this post I am not in any way attempting to demonstrate a tie with religion and violence
Oh Jesus Christ! E-Sinn is gonna hand out spankings. The last 3 pages of this has had absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Please take a look at page one to refresh your minds. Everyone line up, bow down and get your spankings E-sinn is coming.
The question: When compared to other books which make the same exclusive claims why should I accept the bible? Why do you accept the bible when you compare it to other holy books which directly state it is their god which is correct not yours?
quote:
I am in no way playing Devil's advocate with you Esinn, I simply have a different viewpoint to the one you hold. The validity of an argument is based on logic only in matters of fact not those of faith. ..... deleted ........
"This is nothing to do with fact it can't be so logic is irrelevant"
The bible makes hundreds and thousands of claims that have nothing to do with faith. In fact, they are an appeal to logic. They are claims that if researched, studied and understand are either true or false.
To save time though here are only a few:
YHVH is in heaven; heaven is above the clouds. This fact of religion remained unchallenged until the telescope.
Demons, not viruses make people ill. This fact of religion remained unchallenged until recently.
Evil spirits or demons create witches
A great and global flood
Dinosaurs and people lived happily together
The earth is only 6,000 years old
Donkies(Jackasses) talk
All of these claims were appeals to logic. These claims were true because the bible said so. To deny this is to deny a very well understood, researched and documented 2,000 year old history of Christianity. Once these 'facts' have been demonstrated as stories, lies, pious fraud or musings of ignorant(not implying stupid) man faith rushes in to fill the deflated void these 'facts' of religion left.
The trump card of faith is simply a show stopper because the player knows their claims are not rational or logical. Psychologically beliefs are deeply rooted in out mind. People dislike admitting they were wrong or duped. To do so is painful. Human nature is to avoid 'pain' (yes yes I know this is a bdsm forum) and 'seek' pleasure. It must have be a trying psychological process when the last ancient Zeus worshipper admitted he was wrong; or did they play the faith card and take it to the grave?
Imagine if the drunk school bus driver with your child on board drove on the incorrect side of the street.. He did so on faith & faith alone no one would die. He does it again. His faith was correct - his obvious evidence: no one died. What do you say to him when the next time you meet is at your childs grave? Possibly his faith was weak. Possibly yours was as it was only your child out of the 45 that died. More logically an appeal to faith is unjustifiable. The evidence he presents in court about his faith... Well, the next time you see him is as his execution, is he with your child? What does your faith tell you?
How about if modern science accepted it practiconers personal appeal to faith that demons made us sick. Modern medicine has saved hundreds of millions.
The zoologist who has faith and heard his prized animals talk to him is now where he ought after he announced it on TV: medicated and locked down..
People of a religious nature almost always appeal to logic. Your claim is simply incorrect - Pascal's Wager was already presented. People of religion love science and logic when they feel it is on their side. However, they desire to have your cake and while they eat thers. If logic fails or is contrary to what they offer the next best thing to do(only) is pull out the trump card. They can ignore it and hide in the happy bubble.
Question Everything - even your personal faith.
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