RE: Authority of the Bible?

RE: Authority of the Bible? (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/10/2009 1:08:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 To take your example of suicide bombers these men are not wrong...How do you know suicide bombers are instilled with a ''false belief''? For all you and I know they could be carrying out the wishes of a particuarly angry deity and when we die we will regret our choices. I believe they are wrong, I believe that their ideas are unsound, and that is pure faith no different to abiding by a religion. No, they are just plain wrong. Some opinions are so at odds with reality that they are demonstrably false. For instance, the earth is not flat. The belief that the earth is flat is not equally as valid as my knowledge that the earth is roughly spherical. The flat earth belief is wrong, that's not a belief or an opinion that's reality. This is correct: http://earth.google.com/ This is wrong: http://khalas.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/hebrewcosmos.jpg One cannot take a plane, helicopter, hot air balloon or winged steed into the sky and physically go hang out with God, that concept of earth and heaven is wrong. So the part of the Qur’aan where Muhammad claims to have done just that is untrue and a belief to the contrary is a false belief.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/10/2009 2:27:50 PM)
No all that you have mentione got steel you cannot do, that is fact, in this case the fact of gravity which I have already used. Suicide bombers are not just ''plain wrong'' it is that sort of thinking which is nonsense. The belief that the earth is flat is demonstrably false belief in a deity is not hence my argument that faith is untouchable by logic. The part of the qu'rran which makes the claim can be seen in two lights, one that it is a metaphor or two that if the events it describes are true than the prophet of god was not bound by our own physical laws, if one believes in an all powerful god then that belief is not unreasonable. Your argument about suicide bombers is indiccative of a wider problem in the west the argument you're wrong because you're wrong appeals to noone no young man thinking of becoming a ''martyr'' will be swayed by that argument.

polybi108 -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/10/2009 10:15:08 PM)
There are two books to read, for every Christian. One is THE CHRIST CONSPIRACY. It makes it clear that all the stories in the New Testament were used in the exact same wording, in prior cultures. There is no actual evidence that Jesus, Matthew or Mark were real people. NONE. The Romans documented everything in their realm. There is zero evidence such people lived. But there were Christs, virgin Mary's and the whole rest of the NT stories, all over the known world. SECOND, the LOST GOSPEL, THE BOOK OF Q.... evidence of a community which recorded the actual word of Jesus. NO stories. Just his WORD.

Esinn -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/11/2009 10:42:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton I think that anyone who takes seriously a thread started by a guy who makes Eminem look blacker than James Brown while sportwhich ing a wannabe Slim Shady set of glasses and a neck tatt whick appears to be scribbled in via a juvenile hall ballpoint wil be the most harshly Judged by any "God" with a semblance of Sentience. There's some Intelligent Designer thinking for ya. ?

Esinn -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/11/2009 10:45:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn If the bible is true it clearly states its teachings need to be the center of my life and the center of the lives of those I contact. This obviously shouts YHVH needs to be a centerpiece of my life which it is not. I have been unable to find any reasonable reason why I should believe why the authority of the bible takes precedence over any other holy book. With no innuendo implied I ask if you or anyone else has anything intelligent to add I am very interested in hearing about it and discussing it. Well if this was truly the reason you came to a site like this and asked this particular question, I'd reason to say that you aren't quite as intelligent as you attempted to articulate. Ain't no one here but us heathens... Hey Bull.... This forum was here long before I got here :0 The particular question I asked was very relevant to the forum. You need to discuss the types of forums here with the mods not me.

Esinn -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/11/2009 10:46:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn I am not sure anyone respects rude off topic comments. Wrong [sm=evil.gif] ...... those are some of the cleverest bits of wisdom you can read here Pirate Nothing was clever about your comment. Obviously you have nothing intelligent to add. It is all good though.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/11/2009 10:49:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel No, they are just plain wrong. Some opinions are so at odds with reality that they are demonstrably false. For instance, the earth is not flat. The belief that the earth is flat is not equally as valid as my knowledge that the earth is roughly spherical. The flat earth belief is wrong, that's not a belief or an opinion that's reality. This is correct: http://earth.google.com/ This is wrong: http://khalas.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/hebrewcosmos.jpg I was raised to believe that the second one was correct, and the first one was a deception of Satan's to test our faith, just like dinosaur bones and telescopes are deceptions of Satan. And God allows Satan to deceive us that thoroughly so that those who choose to believe in God despite the evidence can be rewarded. I wish I was making this up. My most deep-seated life lessons are, essentially, that God has created an entire illusory world out of His perfect power, and will punish us with an eternity of infinite torment for believing in that perfectly crafted illusion. I've stopped believing in it logically, but it still keeps me up at night. quote: One cannot take a plane, helicopter, hot air balloon or winged steed into the sky and physically go hang out with God, that concept of earth and heaven is wrong. So the part of the Qur’aan where Muhammad claims to have done just that is untrue and a belief to the contrary is a false belief. I've always found that it doesn't matter if something is true or not - what matters is, will you be punished for admitting you believe/don't believe it?

Esinn -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/11/2009 11:01:19 PM)
quote: No Esin I think you have misunderstood your reasons for choosing democracy. Democracy as an ideology is no more ''logical'' than any other. It has teachings that I personally agree with for various reasons. There are plenty of people who disagree. Democracy is no more logical or correct than any other ideology to take an example democracy is no more valid a concept than nazism or islam. I read up on democracy and see how it both works and has worked throughout history and decide that I like it, and so I decide to live my life according to this principle. That is no different whatsoever to choosing a religion. You can only have faith in an ideology you cannot be right per se you can only believe you are right. To take your example of suicide bombers these men are not wrong, I BELIEVE they are wrong and there is an enormous difference. This is I think what you have not understood with your analogy of the mad bus driver. What he is doing is not wrong, it has been judged to be wrong which is different. His faith in his idea is fair enough I simply disagree with it. For instance how would you demonstarte he was ''wrong''? You go onto show then how faith is unassailable which reinforces my point not diminishes it. How do you know suicide bombers are instilled with a ''false belief''? For all you and I know they could be carrying out the wishes of a particuarly angry deity and when we die we will regret our choices. I believe they are wrong, I believe that their ideas are unsound, and that is pure faith no different to abiding by a religion. I choose to accept democracy because I have studied it and seen how it has been applied in the world at large. How is that different to studying the teachings of a religous text and researching how that religion has interacted with society? I think communism is unsound for a number of different reasons but there are many who disagree with me, who is ''right'' The answer is neither and the choice you make is one of faith as you cannot know what is the correct method of governance you can only believe you know. I am absolutely not playing devil's advocate Esin and this debate is entirely to do with the op. In answer to your original question I said that people choose their faith no differently to how we choose ideologies. quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 No Esin I think you have misunderstood your reasons for choosing democracy. Democracy as an ideology is no more ''logical'' than any other. It has teachings that I personally agree with for various reasons. There are plenty of people who disagree. Democracy is no more logical or correct than any other ideology to take an example democracy is no more valid a concept than nazism or islam. I read up on democracy and see how it both works and has worked throughout history and decide that I like it, and so I decide to live my life according to this principle. That is no different whatsoever to choosing a religion. You can only have faith in an ideology you cannot be right per se you can only believe you are right. To take your example of suicide bombers these men are not wrong, I BELIEVE they are wrong and there is an enormous difference. This is I think what you have not understood with your analogy of the mad bus driver. What he is doing is not wrong, it has been judged to be wrong which is different. His faith in his idea is fair enough I simply disagree with it. For instance how would you demonstarte he was ''wrong''? You go onto show then how faith is unassailable which reinforces my point not diminishes it. How do you know suicide bombers are instilled with a ''false belief''? For all you and I know they could be carrying out the wishes of a particuarly angry deity and when we die we will regret our choices. I believe they are wrong, I believe that their ideas are unsound, and that is pure faith no different to abiding by a religion. I choose to accept democracy because I have studied it and seen how it has been applied in the world at large. How is that different to studying the teachings of a religous text and researching how that religion has interacted with society? I think communism is unsound for a number of different reasons but there are many who disagree with me, who is ''right'' The answer is neither and the choice you make is one of faith as you cannot know what is the correct method of governance you can only believe you know. I am absolutely not playing devil's advocate Esin and this debate is entirely to do with the op. In answer to your original question I said that people choose their faith no differently to how we choose ideologies. I am disappointed that people involved in this scene who are a minority who ought to understand the necessity to be open minded are the opposite. I am very interested in what you have to say and appreciate your desire to continue. The trolls have got the best of us. I will gladly discuss this in private if anyone is inclined. I will even meet with anyone local. On a final note Starbuck09 you are wrong - just kidding. ;p Thanks, Esinn

GotSteel -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/12/2009 8:20:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 you're wrong because you're wrong That's not what I said at all, I can't conceive how you could honestly misunderstand what I'm saying to that extent. This is what I actually said: quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel Some opinions are so at odds with reality that they are demonstrably false. quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 The belief that the earth is flat is demonstrably false belief in a deity is not That depends on how you define deity. If you use some sort of deist definition where the god in question started the big bang and then ran off so that he effects our current existence in absolutely no way, then yes logic can't touch him. But that's not what the Bible nor the Qur'an claims. Even if the god himself were completely undetectable to us, effecting our physical reality causes physical evidence which would be detectable to us. For instance: "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:20 The lack of mountains flying around at the whim of Christians shows that assertion not to be the truth. Even if you want to argue that when Jesus said mountains he meant health care. If prayer effected illness there would still be evidence, if prayer worked we'd never have gotten around to inventing antibiotics. When someone died we would run for a bible not a defibrillator. But that isn't what reality has demonstrated, we now know the cause of the majority of illnesses and it's not demon possession, sorry Jesus was just plain wrong. Our form of health care works in an understandable consistent way, praying doesn't work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qt7puJR4IA&NR=1 So a god that goes around granting wishes like the god of the bible is demonstrably false.

thishereboi -> RE: Authority of the Bible? (7/12/2009 9:19:35 AM)
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