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OrionTheWolf -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 2:24:24 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Maxwell67
I think this is correct also. When one lives with a set of beliefs which cannot be defended, then the proper response to criticism is no response. You see this sort of thing regularly online when the beliefs that reinforce bigotry and extremism are attacked. Sure it sometimes brings the idiots and crazy's out of the woodwork, but the intelligentsia will not dignify your criticism with a serious response (though they might address something else that is being discussed within the same thread).
Actually this is utter bullshit. Walk up to anyone and ask them to explain their entire life philosophy, and I doubt you will get the entire thing. In the Gorean section we discuss topics all the time, using the series and the philosophers that Norman borrowed from. Now if you ask a specific question, you might get a more specific answer. An example would be "How do you reflect the Caste system in your everyday life?" The answer you may get is "Those of the castes of Gor took great pride in the things that they did, and they had a caste code which they followed. I have developed a Caste code for what I do, and I follow it with pride." From there you might ask a specific follow up question, and then you might get an answer.
When people use certain words that are obviously insulting, or take a condescending attitude, you are likely to get silence.
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For instance, my mother was a female supremacist, but neither she nor any of her circle would discuss the matter with me seriously. I was a man, and therefore it was beneath them to justify themselves to me. The Goreans I know (and I have known many) almost universally point to the emphasis on personal honor and responsibility that they say is integral to the philosophy, however, the last I checked, Goreans have not cornered the market on either of those traits, and they have as large a population of hypocrites as any other group.
You are quite correct in this. The presumption many are making is that many are living by the series, when in fact we were already living and thinking much of this, and the ideals in the series put a cohesiveness to it. I am not speaking of the traditions and customs, but some of the moral under pinnings. I gave an example of caste before, and now her is another. Many will say something about "Home Stone", and blah, blah, blah. Home Stone is a rock that represents an ideal. That ideal is personal sovereignty within one's home, and to a larger degree the sovereignty of a group of people that band together within a large group (village, city, etc.). Speaking of the first, it is the same as saying that each Man is a King in their own home. This is actually non-gender specific, as a Free Woman in her own home is also considered to have ultimate authority within those walls as well. Patriarchy is the method that is used in the Gor series, and is used in many cultures today. There is no inherent problem with that, except when the duty of care is not fulfilled (I suggest some reading on Patriacrhy to understand what I mean), or when the female part of us being humans is ignored. Nature/God/whatever created the two sexes for a reason, and nature has molded us in certain ways. You can substitute gender roles for the word sexes, as you like. Each portion, masculine/feminine, or dominant/submissive (adjectives and not nouns), function as a whole and not as separate. Just because someone is born male does not automatically mean they are in charge, and just because someone is female does not automatically disqualify them from being a leader.
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Do not expect a serious debate on this subject with Gorean folk who are savvy enough to understand what it takes to present a strong case. Ever. It is not that such people do not exist.. there are some very wise and intelligent Goreans out there, but being that savvy also means they understand that actually presenting such a case is impossible. The 'good' Goreans who are living the lifestyle do so by picking and choosing wisely those elements that work for them and leaving the rest behind. There is no perfect system. Everyone has to find it for themselves no matter what life philosophy they espouse.
I welcome you to the Gorean section to seriously discuss anything you wish, as it is open to all members of this site. I do recommend that if you go there with a superior attitude, or condescending remarks that you will likely receive silence or ridicule. That is part of human nature. There have been many non-Goreans that have started topics, that continue to add to topics, and have been given much information on each of our personal views on subjects. Making statements such as you have, leads me to believe you have not even read any of the topics in the Gorean section.
You could also go to a site called www.silkandsteel.com, and post on their forums. You will find many educated and intelligent Goreans that can field your questions. Again I do not recommend going with an antagonistic attitude.
You see many Goreans have fielded these questions and attitudes 100's or 1000's of times. It gets tiresome after a while. The silence you may hear, could just be from the fact as a Gorean does not care to answer someone else, especially if they come demanding anything.
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