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RE: Under Consideration - 6/27/2009 10:51:28 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: terrislut

I will never again be "under consideration" to anybody. I was UC to a supposed master on here once. It lasted for roughly 9 months. During that time he demanded absolute obedience to him, he would get mad at me and accuse me of "thinking for myself" if I dared question anything he ordered, and he insisted I send him money every week, since "a slave should be worth something, and should be able to make her master money". He wanted more and more, and demanded I sell myself to earn the money. This went on and on until I was eventually homeless. To me "under consideration" is a scam. The only reason I am back on here is because he isn't, at least the account he used back then is no longer valid.
If a Dom is interested in me, fine, but I will not consider myself in any way beholden to a Dom until such time as we are living together in R/L, anything else is bullshit.

So is being brainless enough that you would send a total stranger so much money that you end up homeless. You were taken for a ride but I don't blame *only* him for that, I blame you too.

I teach my submissives to be strong, independant women who are obedient to me but who do not give away their lives and dignity just to serve me. You had the choice to say "NO" at ANY time - you weren't even collared, only under consideration - but you made the choice to pauper yourself. A slave SHOULD BE and IS worth something; it seems he knew that but you forgot it.

Please, learn from your mistakes and his manipulation, and don't be so silly again.

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 41

RE: Under Consideration - 6/27/2009 11:37:12 PM

terrislut

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline

I agree with you 100%, MissDominae. I was an idiot, and worse. I really have no idea why I shelved my common sense, but I did. I just wanted so badly to be owned, and he was a very good talker. I did make the choice, though for the life of me I can't even understand why, I wanted to be owned so badly that I went along with what he said. I do not blame him for it really, who could blame him, he found an airheaded girl who would send him hundreds of dollars every week, even if she needed that money to live. He had all the benefits of pimp's life without any of the few duties it normally entails. I do blame myself for what happened, believe you me the last year and a half of rebuilding my life has been a very effective teacher. I know my worth now, and I will never again be such an easy mark.

That being said, however, I still maintain that being under consideration is a scam, a way to isolate the sub and better manipulate her. The process of taking me from prospective sub to hooker was a long slow one that covered a few months, and being new to all this I was an easy sucker, when he told me that a slave should earn her Master money, I believed him, and to be honest if I was his 24/7 R/L slave I would have happily handed over all funds to his control. What I did wrong was allow myself to be convinced to do so while only under consideration. I had my doubts, but he was very insistant that I not talk about our relationship with anybody, so I didn't, after all I was trying to prove to him I was worth owning. Bit by bit he talked down my reservations, usually by threatening to discard me. In the end, when I was unable to send him money, he did just that.

Any one can put me "under consideration" if they want to, but I will not make some public announcement of this status, nor will I give unquestioning obedience during that period, which from some subs I have corresponded with, seems to be a not uncommon expectation of Doms when they have somebody under consideration.

terri

< Message edited by terrislut -- 6/27/2009 11:40:07 PM >

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 42

RE: Under Consideration - 6/27/2009 11:46:21 PM

WoodenPaddle

Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

Dating > UC > Collar this seems very reasonable.

It is internet jargon, and bullshit. It normally goes hand in hand with "you can't talk to me" and "he has access to my mail" and all that other nonsense. UC is mostly used in cyber-relationships, and I personally believe it is mostly used by inadequate males who get off on manipulating women.

Comparing UC with engaged is laughable. Engaged is a societal function, during which certain conditions are met so a marriage can take place. UC means some silly child has to change her profile, can't talk to "doms" or "dommes", and has to have her correspondence monitored.

I connect with someone nice, I'll have conversations with her on Skype, things still good, we meet for coffee, etc. I don't give a toss whether she changes her profile or not - why would she - because she is talking to me? Pardon, ME? And I don't give a toss if she chats with 1,004 other doms. And I certainly don't have the time or the interest to read her freakin' email. And then the poor deluded UC girl will come here to ask us how come her dom is still talking to other subs. Duh. Honestly, whoever does this stuff has no life, and they've studied dombull101.org in detail.

My tuppence...

YOU can see it as bullshit, but many do not. Your view that it's only used by insecure people with no real life is only YOUR view. Mine is that your view is laughable.
UC is not comparable with engagement you state. I think it is -up to a point- to understand the idea of engagement you have to go back in time and see why that was instituted. There was a time when marriage was permanent, literally "until death does us part". Divorce was not an option, unlike today where it's so common one at times wonders why people bother to marry.
So if you have to make a commitment that will really have an impact on the rest of your life, a trial period, or a period to get to know each other before actually going on seems rather normal.
This is the same with UC. Nowadays, I see people "collaring" (or "being collared") after a month or even a week of chatting. It has no meaning at all since 99% will be apart again inside a year.
For sure, if that's what they're looking for it's their business, but to me it's not a true commitment, it's just easy fun, playing at a D/s relationship.

As for the question of being allowed to talk to others during being UC, I guess it depends on what the people entering it will agree on. It's not anyone elses business.
But if we keep to the comparison with being engaged: if someone is engaged, does that mean he/she cannot speak to other people anymore? Cannot speak on the phone with others without the others permission? Cannot go out with friends? Will they bring all their mail and let it be read?...*shrugs*...for me it doesn't. For me it means they made the commitment to work on getting to know their prospective partner, see if they BOTH are compatible and comfortable and will exclude themselves from having sex with others, but it certainly does not mean that they cannot speak to other people anymore.
It's a time where they BOTH will have to consider whether they can and will continue to the next level, for a long term relationship.

*shrugs again*...as for reading the mail, asking for the passwords...it seems a bit too much...I may perhaps ask for it when I'd be ready to offer a collar in the end, just as a test of trust/faith, but that's all. My life is busy enough that I can hardly keep up with my own work and mail, let alone have to check all of hers. And why? IF I find someone who after a trial period still is comfortable with me I should be able to trust her enough not to need it. If I'm not then I wouldn't be offering the collar and I'd have no business reading her mail.

_____________________________

Don't worry about what people think about you: other people are already worrying about what you think about them.

"Life" : Life is what happens to you while you're busy planning other things

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 43

RE: Under Consideration - 6/27/2009 11:52:13 PM

WoodenPaddle

Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: terrislut

I will never again be "under consideration" to anybody. I was UC to a supposed master on here once. It lasted for roughly 9 months. During that time he demanded absolute obedience to him, he would get mad at me and accuse me of "thinking for myself" if I dared question anything he ordered, and he insisted I send him money every week, since "a slave should be worth something, and should be able to make her master money". He wanted more and more, and demanded I sell myself to earn the money. This went on and on until I was eventually homeless. To me "under consideration" is a scam. The only reason I am back on here is because he isn't, at least the account he used back then is no longer valid.
If a Dom is interested in me, fine, but I will not consider myself in any way beholden to a Dom until such time as we are living together in R/L, anything else is bullshit.

I'm sorry to hear this, but really girl, because you behaved like a complete naive way -to put it kindly- and DID SO YOURSELF, OF YOUR OWN CHOICE, you can't say the whole thing is crap.
Sheesh...I mean, be serious, it's like stating that because someone once drove his car into a pedestrian who was doing somersaults on the highway all cars should be banned.

_____________________________

Don't worry about what people think about you: other people are already worrying about what you think about them.

"Life" : Life is what happens to you while you're busy planning other things

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 44

RE: Under Consideration - 6/27/2009 11:57:55 PM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The only people to whom it is relevent are the couple involved. They define the terms as it suits them

Ah yes, of course. The moving target. Nice try.

If someone mentions in a profile they are "under consideration", they are referring to a generalized common concept. Due to their using the terminology in a published profile, it is relevant to anybody who reads it, and everybody who might be affected by it. By comparison, if someone mentions they are "married", they refer to a particular concept, that has a generalized meaning. It is the same with "UC".

(in reply to Sexycelticlady)

Post #: 45

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:00:04 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

anything else is bullshit

Thank you. And IRL, at least you get to kick his goolies

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 46

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:17:25 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

complete naive way -to put it kindly- and DID SO YOURSELF, OF YOUR OWN CHOICE,

Of course. And we conveniently forget there are people, on internet as much as IRL, who are very adept at manipulating others, and then go around looking for, and connecting with, those who are easy to manipulate. Examples are reasonably abundant, here in the forums, in the newspaper, Ponzi schemes... under your concept, we can do away with the courts and the law, since everybody who gets shot has only themselves to thank for standing in front of that gun. Tsk, tsk.

(in reply to WoodenPaddle)

Post #: 47

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 7:33:44 AM

WoodenPaddle

Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

complete naive way -to put it kindly- and DID SO YOURSELF, OF YOUR OWN CHOICE,

Of course. And we conveniently forget there are people, on internet as much as IRL, who are very adept at manipulating others, and then go around looking for, and connecting with, those who are easy to manipulate. Examples are reasonably abundant, here in the forums, in the newspaper, Ponzi schemes... under your concept, we can do away with the courts and the law, since everybody who gets shot has only themselves to thank for standing in front of that gun. Tsk, tsk.

This is a completely insane comparison. Where-ever did I state courts of law should be done away with?
I did not state I do not blame the one running the scheme...*shrugs*...that should be obvious. But like you so eloquently stated, examples are abundant. So one should take his/her own responsibility to avoid such scams by using the brain. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is.
Being shot by someone because you're a bystander is not comparable with sending money to someone halfway around the world just because he says so. She could at any point have refused to do so. If that to him would mean he wouldn't want to continue, well, then perhaps a bell should start ringing "do not trust this person, he's only after an easy living"

Sounds to me like you think all subbies are weakwilled stupid persons who never should have any responsibility and never have to think for themselves.
My view is that especially subs should be aware of all the scammers around. If someone you never met before starts asking you for money for no other reason then to chat with you or to allow you to call yourself owned -or UC for that matter, or for the honor of owning a sub as a Dom- all kinds of alarmbells should start ringing and red flags should start waving.
Everyone has a brain. Perhaps more people should start using it? It's easy to only blame the scammers, but generally speaking, the one being scammed is just as guilty.

_____________________________

Don't worry about what people think about you: other people are already worrying about what you think about them.

"Life" : Life is what happens to you while you're busy planning other things

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 48

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 8:14:19 AM

terrislut

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline

I have already agreed that the majority of the blame falls on the scamee, in this case me. My real point is that being under consideration was used to isolate me from others who could have helped me avoid the scam. I am really not sure if I would have listened to anything anybody said to me, but it would have given me the chance. UC is a way of isolating a sub, of making her more dependant on the potential master. It tends to limit the contacts she has on CM, or whichever other site the UC designation is being used. Combine this with the general difficulty of discussing this lifestyle with people off site and the Dom's almost universal insistance that the sub who is UC not discuss what is going on with anybody, and the sub is effectively isolated. Once isolated in this way, she is much easier to manipulate and control. It isn't just communication between partners that is essential, but communication with all and sundry within the community.

You said that anybody asking for money should set red flags waving, and you are right. I also believe that anybody asking you to place yourself "under consideration" should also set red flags waving.

(in reply to WoodenPaddle)

Post #: 49

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 10:40:15 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Sorry, but no it shouldn't. I will say my contact with the overall community has diminished somewhat, but I am still free to chit chat with anyone and about anything I want. I choose not to flagrantly air our personal business and am careful about how I interact with others. There is a difference between placing yourselves in a commited state and isolation. It is one thing to agree to not speak with other dominants privately and not being permitted to talk to ANYONE about your relationship. Secretiveness is a red flag to me. Being more selective about my interactions is not.

Before this new level in our relationship (call it UC if you'd like, I don't care), I still was careful about discussing personal issues either here on the boards or with individuals. It is a simple matter of respect. I do the same when it comes to discussing my family members with outsiders or my friends and even groups with which I am associated. If I allow attack or bring ridicule upon them when they are not available or aware they should be defending themselves, then I have disgraced them and myself. Before this, I also ran prospective interests by him when I was uncertain or just wanted to discuss points that interacting with someone else brought up for our own relationship. Getting a little help with understanding things is not a bad thing. I also tended to ask a lot of peoples opinions on similar things in the hopes of getting a broad and diverse picture.

Bluntly, the only people who ever told me to "not tell anyone" were abusing me and all those around them. These same people made reaching out impossible and encouraged me to keep to myself. I wasn't even particularly encouraged to approach THEM about my concerns. That was guaranteed to bring down wrath of some kind. I was alone with my thoughts, worries, and misgivings with no sounding boards and cut off from help. If UC was anything like this, then I would run in the opposite direction.

Instead, I am perfectly willing and able to tell anyone I would like about my relationship and what goes on in it. By its nature, I am selective about who I reveal either of those things to, and how I do it. I am applauded when I get out in the world and experience new things, even when it brings questions to my mind. He is always there to answer my questions and has no issue with me seeking out more information or perspectives. I am never berated for having questions, doubts, or concerns. He has helped me build lines of support rather than cut them off. I like where I am in this relationship, regardless of what it may be called (note again that I personally do not use the term UC).

I am sorry your experience was unpleasant. I think you are painting with too wide a brush, however. I think there far more important things to focus on and for you to draw conclusions from about a person or a relationship than what the steps along the way are named. That is pure semantics and matters very little. A study on the behavioral patterns of abusers would be helpful to you so you can better recognize a predator. There were clues far more obvious than what he chose to call your relationship.

lovingpet

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 50

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 10:49:20 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

Like everything else, the whole issue of collars of consideration and the ensuing agreements boils down to a couple of simple things

1. before you agree to something, make sure you understand all the terms and make sure they're ones you -really- are willing and able to agree to.

2. Other people have the right to design their relationships any way that works for them -- if I don't like it, I don't have to participate, but I have no right to try to manipulate -their- decisions for my own benefit.

To me, that's what the OP sounded like... whining because someone -he- was interested in was "under consideration" and he couldn't lay claim, which, to me, is an immature position to attempt to negotiate a relationship (any relationship) on... and even more so when one is considering taking on a relationship with a high level of responsibility.

Common courtesy and common sense, people. Of course, if we managed our lives that way, the boards would be dead.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/28/2009 10:54:42 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 51

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 10:52:09 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Amen Calla!

lovingpet

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 52

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 11:10:37 AM

WoodenPaddle

Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

I can partly agree with you on this.
Some people indeed use UC as a way to isolate the sub from the rest of the community and sometimes worse, from their existing friends and/or family.
I guess it depends on what one puts down as their definition of UC.

In my case, I see it as a kind of trial period in which to get to know each other better, which definitely does not mean she's not allowed to talk to anyone anymore. Quite the contrary, I would encourage it since talking/discussing will only help her grow and learn. I would however impose some restrictions, not unlike the the ones that would be acceptable for someone entering an engagement (to keep using that comparison), so I'd have a problem with her having sex or playing with others, especially people I don't know and trust, or at least doing so without my permission/knowledge...I know, that may be a bit selfish, but then again, if she cannot agree to relatively simple rules/restrictions as that, for a set time even, then there's no reason to believe she will be able to accept the more rigorous rules and discipline of being a slave.

Just for the recors :) I do agree with one of the earlier posts: BOTH parties are being considered in my view.
So in my case it would follow this path: chat publicly-email/chat privately (on msn/yahoo for instance)-meet for coffee or lunch (LOL -if possible due to not living on different continents)-UC/trial period-collar (or not) if BOTH sides feel they are compatible, and a parting of ways if not. And such a parting does in no way mean it getting ugly. I still have excellent contact with the 2 girls with whom it didn't work out during the trial period.

_____________________________

Don't worry about what people think about you: other people are already worrying about what you think about them.

"Life" : Life is what happens to you while you're busy planning other things

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 53

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 11:14:48 AM

WoodenPaddle

Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Like everything else, the whole issue of collars of consideration and the ensuing agreements boils down to a couple of simple things

1. before you agree to something, make sure you understand all the terms and make sure they're ones you -really- are willing and able to agree to.

2. Other people have the right to design their relationships any way that works for them -- if I don't like it, I don't have to participate, but I have no right to try to manipulate -their- decisions for my own benefit.

To me, that's what the OP sounded like... whining because someone -he- was interested in was "under consideration" and he couldn't lay claim, which, to me, is an immature position to attempt to negotiate a relationship (any relationship) on... and even more so when one is considering taking on a relationship with a high level of responsibility.

Common courtesy and common sense, people. Of course, if we managed our lives that way, the boards would be dead.

Dame Calla

Amen to that. But it sure would be nice to see more people use their brains a bit more. I know, I know, the heart/emotions have a way to overrule common sense. But to me that only means that people should use a trial period a bit more often. The mind should not be put on ice, but it should be in agreement with the heart for decisions such as these. (And as long as it's being overruled it sure isn't)

_____________________________

Don't worry about what people think about you: other people are already worrying about what you think about them.

"Life" : Life is what happens to you while you're busy planning other things

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 54

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 11:42:21 AM

LadyHexx

Posts: 48
Joined: 2/27/2009
Status: offline

Wow. When I say a sub is uncer my consideration, it really just means, Im considering them, I dont expect them to stop talking to anyone, or take orders until they ACCEPT my collar. I also dont expect them to put it on their profile, or even tell anyone that I am considering them, I dont understand why some submissives act like they are completely owned and have no other choice in the matter just because a Dom/me takes interest in them.

(in reply to WoodenPaddle)

Post #: 55

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:00:51 PM

terrislut

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline

I agree with you LadyHexx, that is how it should be. However just do a search on the other side using the key words "under consideration" and you will see that a large number of people do indeed make a public statement that they are UC, and that they will not be talking to other people, usually other Doms. As well, many Doms expect total obedience of one they put under consideration, a sort of "proove you are worth my attention" trial period, rather than a "lets try this out a bit and see if we are compatible".
I often wonder why these Doms do not want their subs emailing/chatting with other Doms. Are they afraid the other Doms will somehow "steal" the UC sub away from them? Or are they afraid that somebody might point out to the UC sub that they are being manipulated/scammed/used? Myself, both from personal experience and from things I have heard from other subs, I believe that in a good number of cases it is the latter. I am not trying to say that being "under consideration" is always some sort of scam, what I am saying is that it seems to be abused quite alot, and any sub should perk up their radar as soon as they hear the words "under consideration". I do not mean to say that they should automatically assume the Dom is out to scam them, only that they should now be very attentive to what the Dom does from then on, as many scammers do indeed use being UC as the way to control the sub without actually putting themselves out in any way.

(in reply to LadyHexx)

Post #: 56

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:03:24 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHexx
I dont understand why some submissives act like they are completely owned and have no other choice in the matter just because a Dom/me takes interest in them.

Because they desperately want to be owned. It's not just insecure doms demanding their subs not talk to anyone. It's also due to insecure subs taking the "whole mile" of ownership when the dom offers the "inch" of consideration.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyHexx)

Post #: 57

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:05:03 PM

LadyHexx

Posts: 48
Joined: 2/27/2009
Status: offline

I always figured, that the sub should have the ultimate choice in who they serve, and I cherish their gift to me. I've seen and talked to some under consideration subs who had no rights / say / choice, and I was sorta disgusted by it. Once you are owned and collared, then the Dom/me, and you can decide what works for you, but until then, if the Dominant wont commit to you, why should you commit to them?

(in reply to terrislut)

Post #: 58

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:05:17 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Indeed! Little has changed to be honest. We are a bit more exclusive. I placed a small piece on my profile because I am happy about it and it helps cut down on unwanted advances. I also have found some dominants got really snotty with me because I would send them a quick reply saying that I was involved with someone and my profile did not indicate such. We have determined for me to put the information on there for my benefit, to shield me. It works for us. It has little to do with viewing myself as completely owned already or any other such. It is a personal decision to put anything up at all and I chose to do so. I did it because I am HAAAPPPPPPYYYYY!!!!!!!1

lovingpet

(in reply to LadyHexx)

Post #: 59

RE: Under Consideration - 6/28/2009 12:17:08 PM

brandi1379

Posts: 137
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline

Ok i might be understanding the whole "under consideration" thing wrong, i myself am UC and yes i changed my profile to say so cause i was told to by my Sir. I dont think he has changed his tho, but should he have to? I mean it states that he is looking for a submissive female, he didnt say how many he wanted and it shouldnt be my place to tell him to change it. My understanding of the whole thing is UC is meant to be a training or a trial period for both of us, to see if i will fit him and to see if he will fit me. I honestly dont get all these women boohooing caues they were told to change there profiles and there D/M hasnt. I belive it is there right as Doms and Masters to keep looking untill they find the right one, thats what there here for isnt it? I myself feel very lucky that my Sir feels like i might be the one for him. Im not about to mess that up by whining to him about changing his profile. Thats just how i feel about the whole thing but who knows i might have gotten it all wrong. To each there own right.

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 60

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