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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 2:30:41 AM   
Mistressbinature


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Is this a joke?

How about going to some posh down town store to pick out new shoes and an outfit.  When you get there the sign reads: Closed - Under Consideration of new management/Slightly possibly chance of buy out sometime soon

Just because someone is too lazy, unable to or lacks the negotiating skills to close a deal and reap the reward does not mean I can not or vice versa.

For I/we if the decision is made to bring in another I know it will be a very important decision.  I know I want to keep all options open(void when open or prodded all sale final).  Truthfully though I do not desire to limit someones ability to make an intelligent and informed decision.  If you like DomJoJo better than me that is your loss :)  I will also maintain control of every aspect of the situation as I never desire to pay a restocking fee because of my fault or hers.

As I only have less than a week here I might be missing something.  But this seems like a cowards way to 'seclude' the sub/slave while he/she buys time.  Subs/slaves do you tell your friends, "He has me under consideration it is going great!"  If a female is marked UC is this something I really need to respect by not speaking with her?  Are there unwritten rules here?  I know I know I can ask her.  However, my question is are there any general rules of engagement that I am not yet aware of?

What do you do?  How do you feel when UC?  What do you do you do when you mark someone UC(what are you considering).
E



If I see someone is "under consideration" I stop right there. I don't look at pix I dont read their profile or their journal, I go on to the next. I would like to think the other Dom/mes would show the same to me if the roles were reversed

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 11:37:12 AM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistressbinature


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Is this a joke?

How about going to some posh down town store to pick out new shoes and an outfit.  When you get there the sign reads: Closed - Under Consideration of new management/Slightly possibly chance of buy out sometime soon

Just because someone is too lazy, unable to or lacks the negotiating skills to close a deal and reap the reward does not mean I can not or vice versa.

For I/we if the decision is made to bring in another I know it will be a very important decision.  I know I want to keep all options open(void when open or prodded all sale final).  Truthfully though I do not desire to limit someones ability to make an intelligent and informed decision.  If you like DomJoJo better than me that is your loss :)  I will also maintain control of every aspect of the situation as I never desire to pay a restocking fee because of my fault or hers.

As I only have less than a week here I might be missing something.  But this seems like a cowards way to 'seclude' the sub/slave while he/she buys time.  Subs/slaves do you tell your friends, "He has me under consideration it is going great!"  If a female is marked UC is this something I really need to respect by not speaking with her?  Are there unwritten rules here?  I know I know I can ask her.  However, my question is are there any general rules of engagement that I am not yet aware of?

What do you do?  How do you feel when UC?  What do you do you do when you mark someone UC(what are you considering).
E



If I see someone is "under consideration" I stop right there. I don't look at pix I dont read their profile or their journal, I go on to the next. I would like to think the other Dom/mes would show the same to me if the roles were reversed


You obviously took no time to read any of this thread.  Under consideration is a weak attempt at playing a game of chess, I do on occasion see some value - per this discussion.  That said I think the people who have labeled they selves as UC have bought into the 'trump card'.  It is for this reason I will not contact them, not out of respect for the top.


< Message edited by Esinn -- 7/15/2009 11:41:15 AM >

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 3:08:19 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Esinn, the varied responses in this thread show that your view is not the only one. There are lots of us who prefer to consider one person at a time, to focus on one person at a time instead of dating multiple people at a time, or just talking online to multiple people at a time.

Mistressbinature  feels like this obviously. As do I. That doesn't mean she didn't necessarily read the thread, simply that she disagrees with you. As do I, which I said on page one.




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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 3:35:24 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: terrislut

I have already agreed that the majority of the blame falls on the scamee, in this case me. My real point is that being under consideration was used to isolate me from others who could have helped me avoid the scam. I am really not sure if I would have listened to anything anybody said to me, but it would have given me the chance. UC is a way of isolating a sub, of making her more dependant on the potential master. It tends to limit the contacts she has on CM, or whichever other site the UC designation is being used. Combine this with the general difficulty of discussing this lifestyle with people off site and the Dom's almost universal insistance that the sub who is UC not discuss what is going on with anybody, and the sub is effectively isolated. Once isolated in this way, she is much easier to manipulate and control. It isn't just communication between partners that is essential, but communication with all and sundry within the community.

You said that anybody asking for money should set red flags waving, and you are right. I also believe that anybody asking you to place yourself "under consideration" should also set red flags waving.
And I would say that the person asking a submissive to be "under his/her consideration" should ask that dominant exactly what that term means to him/her and how it is going to apply to the dynamic.  If it is a dominant you have never met but who still wants you to isolate yourself from everyone, send them money, stop dating and/or playing and/or having sex with others, and all other sorts of constrictive and isolationist actions, well then you just might want to take a moment and consider the implications of that.  But if it is a dominant that you have met and have spent time with, both OFFLINE in person and online, and who you have come to trust and want to know better, then you might view those requests a little less suspiciously.  How much less suspiciously is entirely up to you and the idea of retaining your ability to think and view things objectively, even after you have agreed to those requests, is a good one. 
Like anything else nowadays, "Under Consideration" has a different meaning for each couple.  For Sexycelticlady, it means that she is allowed to date others and play with others.  She does not say but perhaps included with that provision is a provision of "monogamy of the heart and mind" if not necessarily of the body.  For antipode, the term is bullshit and a way to manipulate submissives.  For Esinn, it is a term for cowards.  For Wooden Paddle, it is a term similar to the vanilla term of "engagement"...the couple have made a commitment to an even deeper commitment and so have pulled back from dating and having sex with others but have not ruled out contact with others as friends.  And on...and on...and on...

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 4:32:11 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissJanice2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Is this a joke?

How about going to some posh down town store to pick out new shoes and an outfit.  When you get there the sign reads: Closed - Under Consideration of new management/Slightly possibly chance of buy out sometime soon

Just because someone is too lazy, unable to or lacks the negotiating skills to close a deal and reap the reward does not mean I can not or vice versa.

For I/we if the decision is made to bring in another I know it will be a very important decision.  I know I want to keep all options open(void when open or prodded all sale final).  Truthfully though I do not desire to limit someones ability to make an intelligent and informed decision.  If you like DomJoJo better than me that is your loss :)  I will also maintain control of every aspect of the situation as I never desire to pay a restocking fee because of my fault or hers.

As I only have less than a week here I might be missing something.  But this seems like a cowards way to 'seclude' the sub/slave while he/she buys time.  Subs/slaves do you tell your friends, "He has me under consideration it is going great!"  If a female is marked UC is this something I really need to respect by not speaking with her?  Are there unwritten rules here?  I know I know I can ask her.  However, my question is are there any general rules of engagement that I am not yet aware of?

What do you do?  How do you feel when UC?  What do you do you do when you mark someone UC(what are you considering).
E




The joke is on you Esinn.
 
Respectfully,
 
Mistress_Jan


What does that mean?  If you are not competent enough to join or carry on a discussion why bother?


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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 4:45:29 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Esinn, the varied responses in this thread show that your view is not the only one. There are lots of us who prefer to consider one person at a time, to focus on one person at a time instead of dating multiple people at a time, or just talking online to multiple people at a time.

Mistressbinature  feels like this obviously. As do I. That doesn't mean she didn't necessarily read the thread, simply that she disagrees with you. As do I, which I said on page one.





Come on fippy. 
Don't busy my balls here

I clarified and explained my opinion(*which everyone knows is right)  in this thread.  Throughout this thread we all discussed, clarified and explained specific parts of our opinion.  We talked about why this part was right and why this was wrong.  Obviously we are not done yet. . . I believe I was part of this as well.  If not, I followed along and enjoyed.  It is nothing but lazy to offer an opinion of this nature given our current discussion - this is borderline debate.  No time was taken to review my thoughts or those of others just a drive by posting.

-E

*Just kidding


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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 4:49:26 PM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Esinn, the varied responses in this thread show that your view is not the only one. There are lots of us who prefer to consider one person at a time, to focus on one person at a time instead of dating multiple people at a time, or just talking online to multiple people at a time.

Mistressbinature  feels like this obviously. As do I. That doesn't mean she didn't necessarily read the thread, simply that she disagrees with you. As do I, which I said on page one.





Throughout this thread we all discusses, clarified and explained specific parts of our opinion.  I believe I did this as well.  If not, I followed along and enjoyed.  To page one of a multi


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RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 8:46:39 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And I would say that the person asking a submissive to be "under his/her consideration" should ask that dominant exactly what that term means to him/her and how it is going to apply to the dynamic.

If it is a dominant you have never met but who still wants you to isolate yourself from everyone,  stop dating and/or playing and/or having sex with others, and all other sorts of constrictive and isolationist actions, well then you just might want to take a moment and consider the implications of that. 


Or not. He did want me to stop dating/playing with others before we met. He also stopped dating/playing with others himself so we could both spend the time before we were able to meet learning more about each other to determine if we had sufficient compatibility to go through with meeting.

Both of us were coming out of bad marriages and had been celibate for several years so the sex stuff doesn't apply.

My point CD is that first; he didn't ask anything of me he did not do himself, and secondly; we both chose to concentrate on each other for the few weeks before we were able to meet.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Under Consideration - 7/15/2009 9:02:45 PM   
Sexycelticlady


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Like anything else nowadays, "Under Consideration" has a different meaning for each couple.  For Sexycelticlady, it means that she is allowed to date others and play with others.  She does not say but perhaps included with that provision is a provision of "monogamy of the heart and mind" if not necessarily of the body.  For antipode, the term is bullshit and a way to manipulate submissives.  For Esinn, it is a term for cowards.  For Wooden Paddle, it is a term similar to the vanilla term of "engagement"...the couple have made a commitment to an even deeper commitment and so have pulled back from dating and having sex with others but have not ruled out contact with others as friends.  And on...and on...and on...


Yes, CreativeDominant, that is mostly right. At the present it is because we cannot be together due to issues outside of our control. My heart and mind are free also, if I so choose, at present they are still very much His as that is my choice. Initially, when I met up with my Dom I was really messed up and making bad decisions, so there was a ban on sex or dating others. Now that I have beaten my depression and can be rational again I have the freedom to make that choice while we are apart, He trusts me to be careful and I am. If I were to meet someone and fall for them I will tell Him and we will go our separate ways. For us I guess you would say it is a notice of intent. We intend to take things further and are committed in as far as that is concerned, but until circumstances change it is not fair on either of us to change our "status". When/if we do go further I will be collared and have a formal contract. Until then it is under consideration. The last thing He wishes is to stifle my growth within bdsm or isolate me.

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 7:37:20 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And I would say that the person asking a submissive to be "under his/her consideration" should ask that dominant exactly what that term means to him/her and how it is going to apply to the dynamic.

If it is a dominant you have never met but who still wants you to isolate yourself from everyone,  stop dating and/or playing and/or having sex with others, and all other sorts of constrictive and isolationist actions, well then you just might want to take a moment and consider the implications of that. 


Or not. He did want me to stop dating/playing with others before we met. He also stopped dating/playing with others himself so we could both spend the time before we were able to meet learning more about each other to determine if we had sufficient compatibility to go through with meeting.

Both of us were coming out of bad marriages and had been celibate for several years so the sex stuff doesn't apply.

My point CD is that first; he didn't ask anything of me he did not do himself, and secondly; we both chose to concentrate on each other for the few weeks before we were able to meet.
But that's not the same as placing yourself under a collar that indicates at least some degree of ownership, is it?  You and he did not do anything different from what I do.  If I am going to see someone that I have been speaking with, whether it is for the first time or the second time or whatever time, I ask them to quit seeing and playing with others so that in those few weeks before we meet, their focus is on me.  I do the same thing.  It isn't a big issue for me to do so as the instances of my playing on a casual basis are ever more rare.  Now, at a certain point in the relationship, I would expect the need and/or the want/desire to play with others to lessen because of an increased interest on the submissive's part to focus on me.  But one of the things that complicates that matter is the fact that, despite there being submissives in Colorado, the submissives who I have developed relationships with were long-distance.  So the availability of my presence or theirs to each of us...which, let's face it does make giving others up easier...becomes an important part of just when that will happen.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 7:44:18 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexycelticlady


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Like anything else nowadays, "Under Consideration" has a different meaning for each couple.  For Sexycelticlady, it means that she is allowed to date others and play with others.  She does not say but perhaps included with that provision is a provision of "monogamy of the heart and mind" if not necessarily of the body.  For antipode, the term is bullshit and a way to manipulate submissives.  For Esinn, it is a term for cowards.  For Wooden Paddle, it is a term similar to the vanilla term of "engagement"...the couple have made a commitment to an even deeper commitment and so have pulled back from dating and having sex with others but have not ruled out contact with others as friends.  And on...and on...and on...


Yes, CreativeDominant, that is mostly right. At the present it is because we cannot be together due to issues outside of our control. My heart and mind are free also, if I so choose, at present they are still very much His as that is my choice. Initially, when I met up with my Dom I was really messed up and making bad decisions, so there was a ban on sex or dating others. Now that I have beaten my depression and can be rational again I have the freedom to make that choice while we are apart, He trusts me to be careful and I am. If I were to meet someone and fall for them I will tell Him and we will go our separate ways. For us I guess you would say it is a notice of intent. We intend to take things further and are committed in as far as that is concerned, but until circumstances change it is not fair on either of us to change our "status". When/if we do go further I will be collared and have a formal contract. Until then it is under consideration. The last thing He wishes is to stifle my growth within bdsm or isolate me.
I agree with you on most aspects of what you say except that I see the heart and mind thing a bit differently.  I agree with you that the heart and mind are still free...you can ask for the restriction of monogamy and yet in your heart, you know that a heart and mind have a will of their own...and that it is the choice made freely by the submissive to give them over to the dominant you are pursuing something deeper with that matters.  I also feel...and know that many agree, given how often the talk of manipulating minds/emotions goes on here...that you can put into play something that does direct the mind and heart more to the person you care about without restricting the other person in their discovery of self through sex and BDSM/D/s play with others. 

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/16/2009 7:52:11 AM >

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 7:11:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Throughout this thread we all discusses, clarified and explained specific parts of our opinion.  I believe I did this as well.  If not, I followed along and enjoyed.  To page one of a multi



If you really believe that you were simply explaining your viewpoint, then you ought to reread your response. It was unworthy of anyone with any claim to respecting others views to slam MistressB as you did.

And no, I don't know her.

Half the time your responses are mature and generous and the other half they are snarky and mean spirited. What gives?

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 9:12:07 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Throughout this thread we all discusses, clarified and explained specific parts of our opinion.  I believe I did this as well.  If not, I followed along and enjoyed.  To page one of a multi



If you really believe that you were simply explaining your viewpoint, then you ought to reread your response. It was unworthy of anyone with any claim to respecting others views to slam MistressB as you did.

And no, I don't know her.

Half the time your responses are mature and generous and the other half they are snarky and mean spirited. What gives?

I am confident enough in my own person to not need to bend over backwards to not hurt poor someone's feelings.

What is your favorite book?  Think of it now.  The drive by posting in question is on equal footing with the same jackass who requested to read the first 2 chapters of this book so she could give an intelligent synopsis of them.  Although everyone else was competent enough for some reason this person just could not be bothered.  She just wanted to wing it.  How freaking precious, you want me to cry? 

Imagine you are pushing your 8 year old through the store.  MOMMY, MOMMY I WANT THIS, MOMMY MOMMY I WANT THAT.  MOMMY, MOMMY, MOMMY.  No rational reason is given for why they want this or that.  No effort has been put in understanding why they want this or that.  No time has been spent to figure out what this or that is.  However, this is how we expect children not adults to act.

The 3 sentence postulation this lazy woman offered was addressed by several people who used unique and expressive words - some gave some back ground...  If 10 minutes was given to read the thread this would have been self-evident.

I thought in this community we ought to be honest.


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RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 9:22:33 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

I agree with you on most aspects of what you say except that I see the heart and mind thing a bit differently
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Throughout this thread we all discusses, clarified and explained specific parts of our opinion.  I believe I did this as well.  If not, I followed along and enjoyed.  To page one of a multi



If you really believe that you were simply explaining your viewpoint, then you ought to reread your response. It was unworthy of anyone with any claim to respecting others views to slam MistressB as you did.

And no, I don't know her.

Half the time your responses are mature and generous and the other half they are snarky and mean spirited. What gives?


I also noticed some very relevant to my post above.
quote:

I agree with you on most aspects of what you say except that I see the heart and mind thing a bit differently
(Taken from post 111)

Empathy was offered, feelings were validated, agreement was acknowledge as was disagreement.  The portion of disagreement was brought to attention.

Our drive by poster gets a G -

I understand sometimes for some even when commanded or justifiable human nature gets the best of us, we remain quiet or ignore the bad while thinking of something good to say.  I am not that type of person.  I have presented at least 3 examples of why this person should have rubbed us all wrong.  Very truthfully though this type of digression from the OP is not warranted.  Open a new thread if you like  - this is all I have to say.

-E


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RE: Under Consideration - 7/16/2009 9:44:50 PM   
Sexycelticlady


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, i think that could be fair to say :)

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Under Consideration - 7/17/2009 5:02:07 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But that's not the same as placing yourself under a collar that indicates at least some degree of ownership, is it? 



Ownership, no. Being off the market while you seriously consider someone else, yes. Consideration isn't the same as ownership.

Some people get warm and fuzzy feelings about protocol, collars etc and others don't. But when it's all said and done there's no difference if I had said I was under his collar of consideration or if I had said I wasn't looking because I was seriously looking at him. Either way, I was temporarily off the market.

I don't know, think we're just arguing semantics here?

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/17/2009 5:06:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am confident enough in my own person to not need to bend over backwards to not hurt poor someone's feelings.



Is that what it is? Because your mood swings make me think you've got an undealt with addiction.

I don't always have time to read every damn page of a thread. You might consider me a drive by typist. So be it. But you don't get to dictate which pages I have to read before posting. And just as you can think of me as lazy, I can think of you as unbalanced.

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RE: Under Consideration - 7/18/2009 10:40:32 AM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am confident enough in my own person to not need to bend over backwards to not hurt poor someone's feelings.



Is that what it is? Because your mood swings make me think you've got an undealt with addiction.

I don't always have time to read every damn page of a thread. You might consider me a drive by typist. So be it. But you don't get to dictate which pages I have to read before posting. And just as you can think of me as lazy, I can think of you as unbalanced.


Oh, Fippy your words inspire me to continue.  My addiction is a passion for life.  I am able to satisfy this equally well on the net or in real time.  On the net though like all I tred through bullshit with my shit kickers on, some might even be from me.

I think of you Fippy as a beautiful growing flower, the only one in a wilting and diseased garden worth my attention.  Do not worry though I have a green thumb and much more.  I do not desire to dictate anyone who has not given me the right to earn and demonstrate I deserve such a beautiful gift - how else could it be rewarding.

I do strongly suggest to all intelligent and reasonable adults if you are going to judge the person know the person.  If you are going to say you do not like your meal finish half of it at least, the child is the one who throws it on the floor.  If you are going to make snide comments about an OP at least demonstrate you read the god damn thing.

Again I request Fippy stop busting my balls.

XoXo
-E


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