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ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Manipulation and Begging

TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

One implies that you know if you do it long enough you will get your will done even if it isn't his will.

The other implies that you getting what you want falls on his whim regardless of how badly you beg.

Steel

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: justme1980

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: justme1980

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ORIGINAL: greenearth21

Maybe if you rephrase your question, it won't seem so odd.  Are you curious to know why a Dom would enjoy "The art of begging" or what enjoyment do they get from watching their s type beg?

In a play type situation I can see its value however in real life, some may view it in a negative light

a negative light... so.... you are more worried about how you would be viewed than about him and what he wants.

My response was to sweetsubs situation, where she initiated the begging, in her case, her Master simply said no
I did the same thing and was called on the carpet for it, in both cases Neither of our Master's had requested us to beg so it was not about him or his wants

perspective, sweetheart.

if i beg for, say, something i want to buy, and he says no... then its no. its not a need. shoot, he may plan on buying it for me as a gift after hearing that i want it, or plans on denying it to me at all. all i know is, the answer is no.

to keep on begging for things, and he keeps saying no, then youneed to look at what you are begging for.

if a man is upset that you beg for something, you either a) caught him in a bad mood, b) have asked for it before and were denied, or c) he doesnt think you deserve/need it. may want to reflect back a bit on that one, ie: did you upset him recently?

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ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

just curious, but am i the only one here who struggles with the selfish side to begging?

It kind of seems that way, yes.

I have the opposite problem.  He will ask me if I want something.  Usually I nod yes.  He will then tell me to beg for it.  My first reaction is to reply, "Well, I don't want it that much.  Give it to me, or don't".

I don't know if it is a hubris issue, or if I just have issue in general with begging.  I don't have any trouble begging for release, but begging to serve him?  That's another story.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum


It kind of seems that way, yes.

I have the opposite problem.  He will ask me if I want something.  Usually I nod yes.  He will then tell me to beg for it.  My first reaction is to reply, "Well, I don't want it that much.  Give it to me, or don't".

yes! i can relate to this as well...i do not want him to do anything for me or give me anything that he does not desire to give himself. i always think, if this were something he really wanted, then he would have done it already. and since he hasn't, i don't want to be selfish and beg for something just for me. if i could only have what i begged for, i wouldn't have much.

begging can be seen as selfish... from our point of view. ever thought about it from theirs?

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

UNLESS the submissive is using her knowledge of even this type of dominant to achieve her goals.  At that point, I suppose it could be argued that she is being manipulative but I would think that the bigger argument could be made for her not being submissive but either pandering to what she knows of his ways or surreptitiously, and full awareness, usurping of his control.

 

In other words, wouldn't that then be Topping from the bottom?

That is exactly what it would be.  The type of dominant I described in the bigger post above who is being subjected to this may or may not be aware of it but the submissive certainly is and at that point, in her awareness of her manipulation rather than her submission, she is neither being true to what she claims is her submission nor to the dynamic.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i understand where you are coming from.. and can only give you an example of what some may think from the other side of the slash.

my ex was a man who wanted to be begged.. when he wanted it. i soon was afraid to beg for anything, and felt that when he wanted me to beg, he would simply say so. soon, he stopped commanding me to beg... and we often remained, both, unfullfilled, each waiting for what the other thought we wanted. well.. one day i asked... why did you stop commanding me to beg? his response was "A man loves to hear those sweet words pour from a slave's lips. he needs to feel needed, even sometimes for the smallest of things. your begging calls to my dominance. when that call stopped coming, I felt that you didnt need to feel that side of me anymore."

for me, that was a huge wake up call. its not about getting what you want, or him getting what he wanted. its about the dynamics, the give and take, the need to feel you are wanted, and the desire to show you still need him. its all about communication. even begging can be a form of communication between two people

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he is demanding much more than her simply pleading for what she wants, but she is begging from her place, her understanding of her place and her confirmation of what her place and existance in his life is -- slave.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

As far as begging is selfish? I suppose if one is in the position that they are never to find any pleasure in sex, never deserve to have any desires or wants fulfilled, then it would be. However damn few of us join with partners who seek to have us be cyphers. Most people want their partners to find them wildly exciting sexually, not to dread sex as just another unpleasant chore. Because lets face it, if a woman doesn't want it, she won't be wet, it will be painful and she's messy afterwards. Who would chose that willingly?

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I don't know Daddys'prop or you and it could very well be that you do have an issue with the selfish side of begging...not wanting to try in any way to manipulate your dominant.  But have you stopped to consider the possibility that your issue lies with the control you give up by begging...by the overt expression of your recognition of his control of your wants and desires? 
It has often been stated on here that most submissives have some issues with giving up control and that most do so in a fashion that feels comfortable for them.  Some have trouble even asking for something as that implies giving the dominant permission to control in the specific area they are asking about.  Now, put the asking into the further context of begging and it becomes a bigger issue...a mix of his control of permission, his control of your wants/desires, his control of the dynamic, etc. 

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I don't know Daddys'prop or you and it could very well be that you do have an issue with the selfish side of begging...not wanting to try in any way to manipulate your dominant.  But have you stopped to consider the possibility that your issue lies with the control you give up by begging...by the overt expression of your recognition of his control of your wants and desires? 
It has often been stated on here that most submissives have some issues with giving up control and that most do so in a fashion that feels comfortable for them.  Some have trouble even asking for something as that implies giving the dominant permission to control in the specific area they are asking about.  Now, put the asking into the further context of begging and it becomes a bigger issue...a mix of his control of permission, his control of your wants/desires, his control of the dynamic, etc. 

CreativeDominant, thank you for sharing your perspective as a Dominant here, especially as it relates to control. i am not sure though if giving up of control (of desires, pleasures, whatever) is my issue with begging...primarily because i just don't have control in those areas, i am not even fully aware of what i like, what i want in any real way, etc. it is very difficult for me to try to think in those ways...i am so used to just accepting my lot/fate, whatever it may be, and focusing instead on my Master's needs, desires, drives. sometimes i wonder if it's too late for me to re-wire my brain enough so that i can discover those things about myself, and of course so my Master can discover them.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
begging for sex dont count, Andalusite!
oh wait
yes it does
never mind

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ORIGINAL: justme1980

Ok, let me see if I can say this right:

If a Dom requires a sub to beg, is he saying that it is ok for the sub to put their needs before his?


Does it send a message that says "I will allow you to beg, manipulate, take my power, and otherwise control a certain situation "

Thoughts, comments?

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ORIGINAL: justme1980

Ok, let me see if I can say this right:

If a Dom requires a sub to beg, is he saying that it is ok for the sub to put their needs before his?

Does it send a message that says "I will allow you to beg, manipulate, take my power, and otherwise control a certain situation "

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

just curious, but am i the only one here who struggles with the selfish side to begging?

im not sure what you mean. can you expand, please?

tazzy, it's what i was trying to explain in my earlier post, paraphrased here:

in order to beg and beg sincerely (i.e. not roleplay or simply because you were told to do so), it must be for something that you, the submissive, want/desire. when you beg, you hope that the response from the Dominant will be a positive one...allowing you the thing it is that you desire. so you are focusing on what YOU want, and then hoping that the Dominant will provide it...especially when it's been steadily instilled into your brain by your Master that you are to strive for selflessness, that your life is not about your desires, likes, pleasure, etc.

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

what the hell...?

How can you turn begging into zapping the Doms power?