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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Yes we do, and I certainly include myself in the "we". Such a gray area in between the often needed clue-by-four and helping.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

1.  BINGO!   Which is what Michael was saying needs to change.

2.  Um.  We do that to people here all the time don't we?  Oops.

BSB, yep...looks like I am going to have to change how I post a bit.

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ORIGINAL: abuddingdom

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SCENARIO 2:
If Human "A" falls of their bike, and Human "B" says, "Oops, are you ok?  Don't worry that happens to alot of people when they first learn to ride a bike.  Can I show an easier way to try that? It may help to keep you from falling off next time."


You advocate scenario 2.

Right?

If there weren't people around the area, including my pretty one , who marched to the above drum I would have with my tail between my legs gone back to the vanilla dating site I was on afew years back looking for(&possibly would have found by now) someone with mutual attraction who likes to bottom.

About 2 1/2 years in the community, the lifestyle, whatever - I consider myself a "newbie" of sorts. I'm not a newbie like the brand new folks I met at our monthly  munch the other night, or some folks I know who've been around forafew months& are still very much feeling their way.  Neither am I  a " charge forward full steam ahead   Sir's in my screename&I expect  all to call me Sir & where's the needles my sub's breasts await" type.  I'm me - abuddingdom. Who's ina good, healthy far from perfect relationship with someone who had vastly more knowledge& definitely more experience than me.  We spent a good amount of time getting to know each other,  playing a lot in the process, & with time I realized that she had come to a place on her journey & learned , due to some hard-won lessons, that she very clearly knew what she didnt want. What she  did want was still formulating&even subject to some change  but she had no doubts as to what dynamics she didnt want in a relationship. .

One can read her posts & see the above developments if one chooses but back to me, as someone who could have been demonized out of the community & as one who could have been left in my pretty one's dust : I was carrying a lot of  old attitudes over from my decades of topping. I came in assuming it was mostly about sex, & having long indulged in "funishment"  was assuming that" subs want & or need to be punished, right?"  Doesnt everyone like roleplaying? Dont all subs like getting their faces slapped & hair pulled? I'd bound&ravished many willing partners & whacked some of them  around with my hands& belts&ropes&other things which were laying around so that means I could put down that I'm an expert in bondage&spanking&flogging on my CM profile, right?

I went real slow at the  play parties I attended but eventually found a couple women who were willing for me to have at them with someone's borrowed toys, & I specifically asked other D types to keep an eye on me. But when my pretty one&I started spending a lot of time together I went into fullblown frenzy(which is the term she used in - respectfully -pointing it out to me). I wanted it all, & I wanted it now. We laugh about some of it now.  In the past, it wasnt uncommon for me&my partners to drink while playing & she almost had a heart attack when I told her to make me a drink the first time we played privately. A Domme friend used to give me free(too free, looking back) access to her toybag in the dungeon&my pretty one said "no, no, no" when I picked up  whips&heavy floggers  with which I had no experience & said "lets' play". Someone jokingly said that was TFTB but I even knew it was common sense(& self preservation, lolol!) once she could get eye contact with me & say "not yet. try this one, Sir?".

There's a lot of different ways to exchange power, & Ive watched many of them over the last couple years. But I've always liked that saying, I think its from old Will S - "before pride goeth a fall". I'm still pretty new at this& I dont fear humility.Never have. Sometimes someone has to get my attention, though.  I also feel grateful that I had a chance to grow, which is my main point believe it or not.  Perhaps I should have just said that....... 

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

Michael,  I flew out to see you almost every month and let you do the most vile, perverted things to my body

Oh, but I think what I most get off on is the taste for exotic things I nurtured in your mind, a mind I am sad to say is probably far more sick and twisted than mine.  I am just glad that you started out with a CrappyDom like myself so that you know what this end of the spectrum looks like. 

Started out?  That bar is set so high now that I would need to find a 9 foot tall man to even come close to reaching it!

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ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
Gosh, I'm just so disillusioned now!

And incapable of either reading or comprehension.  As I'd stated, IF another is so worried about this then they have little to offer... no sub/slave that's found a great Dom/Master is going to dash off over a "mistake".  WOULD YOU?  Likely not... and so you make my point.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
Gosh, I'm just so disillusioned now!

And incapable of either reading or comprehension.  As I'd stated, IF another is so worried about this then they have little to offer... no sub/slave that's found a great Dom/Master is going to dash off over a "mistake".  WOULD YOU?  Likely not... and so you make my point.

Wouldn't they? 

Let's see...I had one submissive drop my bag by my head early one morning after 2 beautiful days and nights together.  Her words as she dropped the bag?  "You've got 10 minutes to get out of here or I call the police".  I've had a submissive whose life got "tough" and so, she just disappeared from my life.  Yes, she is a submissive on here and, despite several emails and calls to her letting her know that I am here as a friend if nothing more, I've yet to hear from her ever again.  I don't know whether or not in the second case I have been demonized to her friends as "obsessive" or "not understanding enough" or what.  I DO know in the second case that I was demonized to her friends as a dominant who did not know how to differentiate between strikes that would cause "marking" and those that would cause "Marking", that I didn't "give a shit" about how a submissive was feeling after play because after holding her for an hour while she cried and then, after her crying, talked, I then...when she quit talking, hugged her tightly, kissed her forehead, turned over and went to sleep.   

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I disagree with Michael, Mercnbeth, Steel on occasion but I've always found them to be honest and sincere about what they were doing and determined to correct mistakes when they were made. 

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    I hope they...and others...find me to be the same way.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


BUT, not every dominant has the self confidence to deal with it, in that manner. Quite often they get prickly and defensive, due to their own insecurities, lash out and retreat. With us poking them with sharp sticks and laughing at them. Then, due to that experience, that beat up their already fragile ego, they figure they will just start lying to cover up their failings rather than ask for help. The really sad part of the whole thing is that there are insecure, young, inexperienced s-types (or just plain stupid ones) that will end up buying into their swaggering lies, and get hurt. That's when the cycle of "demonization" will probably begin.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am going to try this one last time.

Calling an individual on their issues is good.  Exposing anyone who is abusive is good.  Holding people accountable is good.  Executing child molesters is good.  Shooting anyone who is physically abusive is often justified.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The incessant chest thumping and demonizing "wannabee" doms is a very bad concept.  Especially while coddling submissives that they have no responsibility in making bad relationship choices.

It destroys our community!

Why?
Because new submissives (who are just as clueless) will now turn on any dom who makes a mistake and label him an asshole. Neither learn nor grow through the experience.
The demonizing is presented in a way that paints making mistakes as WRONG and only one side can do those wrongs, the dominant side. Imagine a world where submissives are empowered BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING THE MISTAKES OF A DOMINANT AS SIGNS OF AN ASSHOLE TOOK THEM AS OPPORTUNITIES TO GROW WITH AND OR EDUCATE THEIR PARTNER?
THEN we would have something that goes like this
"dude, what are you doing, that is a hard limit of mine, stop!"

"Uh why slave, I am dom, hear me roar!"
"Your a great guy but that isn't how you evoke my submission, respect my limits today and I might let you push them tomorrow" 
"Cool! Thanks for educating me! That was a fun scene, get together next weekend?"
"Sure, I think you are going to be a great partner, I look forward to next weekend"
And THAT is why I object to demonizing the dominants...

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
But the difference that the OP is trying to get across is MOTIVE. In particular those whose intentions are good, but makes mistakes, perhaps even to the point of injury while topping someone in a scene but instead of the bottom talking to them about those mistakes, they talk to everyone else they know EXCEPT the person who made the mistakes. If the top has no idea they fucked up, how does that help anyone?

He isn't talking about someone who is careless and who could care less about learning good topping skills!


I agree with what you are saying here, my issue is with the idea that this is a "community" issue and not a personal issue.

I think that people who actively go to dungeons and become part of local BDSM groups have a tendency to forget that the majority of people into wiitwd are not part of anything larger then the personal relationship(s) that they form, no different from any other, but in no way does that make them any less real or any less skilled. 

I agree with you that  motive is the key to understanding,   and I agree that it is self defeating and there is no growth if people don't communicate when things go wrong, but it seems to me that is just simple common sense.  The problem is, I think, that it is subjective and open to interpretation,  and people lie about their motives all the time, both to others and to themselves, in order to get what they want. So anytime we accept the judgement of someone else who we do not know, concerning another person, be it good or bad, we do so at our own risk.


Earlier in the thread you said this:

To think I flew out to see you almost every month and let you do the most vile, perverted things to my body (and of course the peverted things you let me do to your body!) 
And now that I've been informed by this helpful poster that you have little  to offer, I'll have to figure out someway to undo all the immense personal growth I couldn't have achieved without your help.



Now I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true, but if I do accept what you say now, then it would follow that if you came here in a month and said he has now turned into a violent abuser, if I believed your praise now why would I not believe your damnation then, and which would be the truth? I don't know your motivation because I don't know you. And if we fear the possibility of demonizing the good then I guess we should also fear the possibility of mistakenly praising the bad.

I think  the best advice is to make our own judgments, as adults, free of any prejudgments, because the reality is that in the end this is not about how you swing a whip or how many ways you can tie someone up, those things can be learned even once the relationship has started, it is simply about human interaction and who excites us and understands us, and we can only learn that ourselves through trial and error and by taking the calculated risks and sometimes leaps of faith that we all must do to find someone, be it a BDSM relationship, or for that matter, any relationship at all.



_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

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ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Now I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true, but if I do accept what you say now, then it would follow that if you came here in a month and said he has now turned into a violent abuser, if I believed your praise now why would I not believe your damnation then, and which would be the truth? I don't know your motivation because I don't know you. And if we fear the possibility of demonizing the good then I guess we should also fear the possibility of mistakenly praising the bad.

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And, I've grown myself, so its not all one-sided.  One of the biggest things is that Sir has encouraged and supported my return to regular employment, after a 20-year hiatus, something thats gone wonderfully well. 

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am going to try this one last time.

Calling an individual on their issues is good.  Exposing anyone who is abusive is good.  Holding people accountable is good.  Executing child molesters is good.  Shooting anyone who is physically abusive is often justified.

• Calling an individual on their issues is good. After attempting do so privately prior to going public if possible.
  
•  Exposing anyone who is abusive is good.  After trying to help them correct their errors.
• Holding people accountable is good. Not only good but often advisable to avoid abuses of any kind or mistakes due to ignorance.
  
• Executing child molesters is good.  Should be done automatically
  
• Shooting anyone who is physically abusive is often justified. Not often legal but it can work if nothing else does.