RE: HEALTH CARE (Full Version)

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Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/31/2009 7:11:57 PM)

Republicans are not interested in reducing costs and covering all Americans or real healthcare reform, they are interested in protecting corporate profits.

House Health Care Bill Criticized as Panel Votes for Public Plan

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 30, 2009


WASHINGTON — The House Energy and Commerce Committee resumed work Thursday on major health care legislation, voting to establish a government-run health insurance plan, as top Republicans stepped up their criticism of the ambitious legislation.

By a vote of 35 to 24, Democrats defeated a Republican effort to eliminate a section of the bill that would create the public health insurance option.

“Our constituents should have the choice of a public plan,” said Representative Christopher S. Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut. “There is nothing to be scared of here. No one will be forced into the public plan.”

President Obama supports a public plan, saying it would foster competition and keep private insurers honest.

On the Senate side of the Capitol, where efforts to produce a bipartisan health care measure continued in the Finance Committee, top Republicans seemed eager to avoid early compromises that would let Democrats head to their home states for the August recess boasting of any progress.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/us/politics/31health.html?th&emc=th




Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/31/2009 7:56:38 PM)

Health Care Realities
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: July 30, 2009

At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program — but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, “wasn’t having any of it.”

It’s a funny story — but it illustrates the extent to which health reform must climb a wall of misinformation. It’s not just that many Americans don’t understand what President Obama is proposing; many people don’t understand the way American health care works right now. They don’t understand, in particular, that getting the government involved in health care wouldn’t be a radical step: the government is already deeply involved, even in private insurance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/opinion/31krugman.html?em




Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/31/2009 8:33:53 PM)

Op-Ed Columnist - Health Care Realities - NYTimes.com

Right-wing opponents of reform would have you believe that President Obama is a wild-eyed socialist, attacking the free market. But unregulated markets don’t work for health care — never have, never will. To the extent we have a working health care system at all right now it’s only because the government covers the elderly, while a combination of regulation and tax subsidies makes it possible for many, but not all, nonelderly Americans to get decent private coverage.

Now Mr. Obama basically proposes using additional regulation and subsidies to make decent insurance available to all of us. That’s not radical; it’s as American as, well, Medicare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/opinion/31krugman.html?em




Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 8:35:43 AM)

E-mail 'analysis' of health bill needs a check-up

Most of what the e-mail says is wrong. In fact, it's a clearinghouse of bad information circulating around the Web about proposed health care changes, so we thought it would be helpful to address a bunch of its claims.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/




Sanity -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 8:44:09 AM)


How stupid do Democrats think you are?

It's the media's fault. It's the fault of evil insurance companies. It's the Republicans' fault.

Excuse me?

Democrats have a solid majority - they can accomplish anything they set their minds to.

They act like little children!


quote:

Senate Dems blame media for August health deadline


Senate Democratic leaders on Thursday blamed Capitol Hill media for setting an August deadline for health reform and Republicans for blocking the bill's progress.

Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Democratic Conference Vice Chairman Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Conference Secretary Patty Murray (D-Wash.) also acknowledged that critics will "pour it on" during the coming August recess and they plan to respond in kind...

“The only problem with getting a bipartisan bill is the Republican leadership in the Senate,” Reid said.

Saying the current medical system is "chronically ill," Durbin took aim at the insurance lobby, which he said will “pour it on” during August.

...“There are people out there with a lot of money at stake in this debate,” Durbin said. “The health insurance companies are some of the most profitable businesses in America. By fighting change they're protecting their bottom line.”



http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/senate-dems-blame-media-for-august-health-deadline-2009-07-30.html






Sanity -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 9:26:41 AM)


“Nobody is talking about some government takeover of healthcare,” he said. “Under reform, if you like your doctor, you keep them. If you like your plan, you keep it.”

Barack Obama

***************

“The glory days are coming to an end for the health insurance industry in our country,” Pelosi told reporters Friday afternoon.

“This is about inoculating against misrepresentations and educating about what is in the bill,” she said. “We all want bipartisanship…but you’re either with the insurance companies or you’re for something new."


Nancy Pelosi




Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 9:28:18 AM)

If they have to use reconciliation in the Senate they will and they will get a bill in the Senate. Charles Grassley and Max Baucus won't be able to stop it. Ideally a few more Republican senators will go down in the next midterm elections and maybe Bobby Kennedy Junior can be the replacement for Ted in Massachusetts and the Democrats will be stronger so they can get it right to provide healthcare for all the American people.




cuckyman -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 9:36:19 AM)

The polls for Obama and the socialist demopukes are collapsing, and if they try to ram this health care fiasco thru on reconcilliation, it will destroy the dems for good....the country is center right...and will be...these numbnut liberals are so out of step with the nation as to be on mars.... the midterms will be a repeat of 94, with the dems being thrown out on their soicialist asses...good fucking riddance....bye Nancy Pelosi...and Harry Reid...Chris Dodd, and Turbin Durbin...and mostly good bye power for the democrats for at least another decade.... socialism had never worked and never will....if they try reconciliation...the torches and pitchforks come out...and if that don't work...the guns are next....this is not the soviet union, and Obama is hanging on by a thread....too bad...so sad....LMAO....




Sanity -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 9:47:07 AM)


You don't understand what is happening here. The plans that are being pushed are so extreme, so socialist, that Democrats are revolting due to their own convictions as well as the public anger that has been rearing up.

It doesn't matter how many Democrats get elected if the majority of them vote against, for example, taking away Medicare benefits from the elderly in order to fund the bloated, rotting corpse of a bill that has been dead in the Senate for some time now.

Seriously, if Democrats insist on  passing any of the current plans I can guarantee you there won't be more Democrats in Congress after the next voting cycle - there will be less!

Why do you think that Obama's approval numbers are plummeting?

Or have you even asked yourself that.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

If they have to use reconciliation in the Senate they will and they will get a bill in the Senate. Charles Grassley and Max Baucus won't be able to stop it. Ideally a few more Republican senators will go down in the next midterm elections and maybe Bobby Kennedy Junior can be the replacement for Ted in Massachusetts and the Democrats will be stronger so they can get it right to provide healthcare for all the American people.









Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 10:24:58 AM)

After reading and doing more research... this is all I have to say.

No Fatties! No Smokers! We will teach you by a star system what to eat. Don’t worry folks; we will tax you to help you break all your bad habits. We will advertise and support (surround) you from your schools, work place, grocery stores and your churches to teach you and help you break all your bad habits. Those who help us will be rewarded. We have already started in your children’s schools and now we will work on you. It is for your benefit you Beloved American Sheep, you need us to tell you what to do and punish you if you do not do it. You do not know what is best for you to do and although we allowed you to think that your vote mattered and so did you, the truth is you really need us to govern what you say and do. You need us and can safely depend upon us. You will learn that we do this because we truly care for you and our life is given to guide you and this country into a better, healthier and happier time.

Oh and by the way, we are now designing your tattoo

Owned and Made in the USA

(I got my attitude straight from the mouths of our leaders working on this bill.)





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 10:38:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

The polls for Obama and the socialist demopukes are collapsing, and if they try to ram this health care fiasco thru on reconcilliation, it will destroy the dems for good....the country is center right...and will be...these numbnut liberals are so out of step with the nation as to be on mars.... the midterms will be a repeat of 94, with the dems being thrown out on their soicialist asses...good fucking riddance....bye Nancy Pelosi...and Harry Reid...Chris Dodd, and Turbin Durbin...and mostly good bye power for the democrats for at least another decade.... socialism had never worked and never will....if they try reconciliation...the torches and pitchforks come out...and if that don't work...the guns are next....this is not the soviet union, and Obama is hanging on by a thread....too bad...so sad....LMAO....


The historical and political ignorance you display in your posts would be amusing if it weren't for the fact that so far, 1 out of every 3 posts you have on this site have contained either a veiled or direct threat against the lives of the president and/or other national leaders. You really sure that's the way you want to represent yourself?




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 10:53:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why do you think that Obama's approval numbers are plummeting?

Or have you even asked yourself that.







I certainly have, and I can say that a big reason his approval rating with me is plummeting is for exactly the opposite reason - it's the complete lack of leadership he's shown in clarifying this issue and guiding it to a resolution.




Sanity -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 11:52:45 AM)


You're on track, but the owners on the government tattoos are due to be the Chinese. The bills are eventually going to have to be paid somehow!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

After reading and doing more research... this is all I have to say.

No Fatties! No Smokers! We will teach you by a star system what to eat. Don’t worry folks; we will tax you to help you break all your bad habits. We will advertise and support (surround) you from your schools, work place, grocery stores and your churches to teach you and help you break all your bad habits. Those who help us will be rewarded. We have already started in your children’s schools and now we will work on you. It is for your benefit you Beloved American Sheep, you need us to tell you what to do and punish you if you do not do it. You do not know what is best for you to do and although we allowed you to think that your vote mattered and so did you, the truth is you really need us to govern what you say and do. You need us and can safely depend upon us. You will learn that we do this because we truly care for you and our life is given to guide you and this country into a better, healthier and happier time.

Oh and by the way, we are now designing your tattoo

Owned and Made in the USA

(I got my attitude straight from the mouths of our leaders working on this bill.)






Sanity -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 11:59:08 AM)


You can't blame me. Nobody can say I never tried to warn against a whole host of very serious problems with that man, but I take heart in how many people such as yourself are finally beginning to see some of these things on their own, issue by issue.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
I certainly have, and I can say that a big reason his approval rating with me is plummeting is for exactly the opposite reason - it's the complete lack of leadership he's shown in clarifying this issue and guiding it to a resolution.





Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 1:18:43 PM)

You have problems with Obama? Maybe Bill Maher can help.

Video: 'New Rules' - Bill Maher
I will show you President Obamas birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palins high school diploma...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmtEecwdgPc




substobbws -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 5:25:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Op-Ed Columnist - Health Care Realities - NYTimes.com

Right-wing opponents of reform would have you believe that President Obama is a wild-eyed socialist, attacking the free market. But unregulated markets don’t work for health care — never have, never will. To the extent we have a working health care system at all right now it’s only because the government covers the elderly, while a combination of regulation and tax subsidies makes it possible for many, but not all, nonelderly Americans to get decent private coverage.

Now Mr. Obama basically proposes using additional regulation and subsidies to make decent insurance available to all of us. That’s not radical; it’s as American as, well, Medicare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/opinion/31krugman.html?em


I wouldn't call Mr. Obama the smartest marketer. I keep hearing him say something like "My opponents tell you this is socialized medicine."

What better way to scare the hell out of people AND help get the message across FOR the people you disagree with? LOL.

That would be like looking people in the eye while running for office and over and over saying "My opponent would have you believe that I'm a child molester." LOL.




substobbws -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 5:32:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

After reading and doing more research... this is all I have to say.

No Fatties! No Smokers! We will teach you by a star system what to eat. Don’t worry folks; we will tax you to help you break all your bad habits. We will advertise and support (surround) you from your schools, work place, grocery stores and your churches to teach you and help you break all your bad habits. Those who help us will be rewarded. We have already started in your children’s schools and now we will work on you. It is for your benefit you Beloved American Sheep, you need us to tell you what to do and punish you if you do not do it. You do not know what is best for you to do and although we allowed you to think that your vote mattered and so did you, the truth is you really need us to govern what you say and do. You need us and can safely depend upon us. You will learn that we do this because we truly care for you and our life is given to guide you and this country into a better, healthier and happier time.

Oh and by the way, we are now designing your tattoo

Owned and Made in the USA

(I got my attitude straight from the mouths of our leaders working on this bill.)




I'm reminded of the commercials I see for the post office. If the government's going to spend OUR MONEY to advertise and try to beat it competitors in this business, should an equal amount of money be given to the "companies" it's competing against?

It's like the fucking commericals for lotteries/taxes on the poor, another protected government enterprise. Apparently, whether gambling via a lottery is morally correct simply depends on where the profits go. It's another fucking tax! If you or I start a lottery, that's a numbers game and we go to prison. If the government wants to run a numbers game, then it's a "lottery."




Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/1/2009 10:45:57 PM)

Reply to: ThatDamnedPanda
[/quote]

I certainly have, and I can say that a big reason his approval rating with me is plummeting is for exactly the opposite reason - it's the complete lack of leadership he's shown in clarifying this issue and guiding it to a resolution.

[/quote]

The Clintons showed lots of leadership and said exactly what they wanted to do right from the start and they ended up getting the bill defeated because they were too authoritative. I think Obama will take charge and show leadership at the appropriate time when it's needed to give the health care bill a final push over the finish line.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/2/2009 12:03:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
quote:


Reply to: ThatDamnedPanda


I certainly have, and I can say that a big reason his approval rating with me is plummeting is for exactly the opposite reason - it's the complete lack of leadership he's shown in clarifying this issue and guiding it to a resolution.



The Clintons showed lots of leadership and said exactly what they wanted to do right from the start and they ended up getting the bill defeated because they were too authoritative. I think Obama will take charge and show leadership at the appropriate time when it's needed to give the health care bill a final push over the finish line.


That's a good point about the Clintons, Brain. As for Obama, I still think he's falling way too  far on the other end of the spectrum. He's really undermining his own credibility by constantly exhorting the American people to support a bill he can't even explain because he doesn't know what's in it himself, and it's no wonder people are confused and wary of the proposal when every single day his description of the bill's intended objectives change. He's showing absolutely no leadership on this issue at all, and waiting until the bill hits his desk before taking charge will mean that his only real input into the process will be to either sign whatever the lobbyists pushed through congress, or veto it and tell them to start over. Presumably with no more presidential leadership, or even involvement,  than he displayed the first time around.

This is a terrible failure of leadership. This is the issue that he intended to be the jewel in the crown of his administration. This is his issue. He needs to fucking own it, for christ's sake. He needs to be health care reform. He needs to set clear goals for what this program is going to accomplish, and clear guidelines for how it's going to meet those goals. He needs to go to the American people and explain why this is necessary (which he has done, to some extent), and how it's going to work (which he has made absolutely no attempt to do whatsoever). He needs to make his case the people, make it clear to congress what he will and will not accept in the final version of the bill, and make clear that if the bill does not meet his standards, he will veto it. He needs to fight for it tooth and nail, and he needs to take whatever political risks he needs to take in order to make this happen.

And he has done none of those things. The closest he has come is to hold these idiotic "town hall" meetings and a few press conferences, all of which serve only to make painfully clear how little involvement he really has in the process and how little genuine leadership he is actually showing. He still thinks he's on the campaign trail, for god's sake. The failure of this process is his failure. I hold him fully responsible for the fucking chaos this whole thing has become, and I tell you, right now - tonight - I wish to god I could get my vote back. This is absolutely not the president he said he was going to be.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (8/2/2009 12:04:40 AM)

edit - what the fuck is going on with the quote feature?




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