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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 12:40:54 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Retarded people
Learning disabled, please.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 12:55:43 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

But everyone should know that sentences begin with capital letters and end with periods.  And anyone over age eight should know real versus not real words.


Gosh your problems I would love to have...because if something like this bothers me...then I obviously have no real worries in my life to be bothered about...and before you comment on my grammar...I know that I lack on grammar and you know what? I don't bloody care about it, particular not online. I am thankfully not from an english speaking country and only currently stuck to live in the UK, that does not mean that I have to strangle myself with "correct grammar stuff on a board like this."

English is my second language as well and it is enough to get me through Uni, therefore I am not bothered to waste my very limited available time I am still having available with studying more the grammar over here...

regarding a comment made from TurboJugend, yes, unfortunately my country germany had a writing-reform and now many of our words look just plain awful. I used to be very good in writing in my own language but I guess at the moment, after not living at home since 5 years, I would write awful even in my own language as I am not familiar with all those damn changes they made...there was obviously another big brainer at work who figured out the unneccessary need to "make things easier." *shakemyhead*

And regarding upper and lower case words...just bear in mind that in some countries, as already mentioned on here it is a multi-national board, such as e.g. Germany, we write certain words with a capital letter within the sentence, therefore we are simply used to do it to certain words and still do it in another language as well. When I was new in the UK I also had to learn that the UK does not put words together as we do it at home, where a friend of mine kept taking words apart from an application I wrote and asked me annoyed "Why do you do this?" Thats simply the fact that other nationalities are brought up with different rules and in regards to putting words together if you would write the word potatosoup in germany it would be one word and not like in the UK and USA potato soup instead.

However, to summarise it up, posts about grammar and spelling etc. bore me to the ground because as I said in the beginning, if this is for you that much a worry how others write on the boards in an open forum...then your life must be incredible easy and you have nothing else to worry about and I would be happy to swap my life with you, as quite frankly, I have too much own action going on in my life and the last thing which I am bothered about are the mistakes other people are doing. As long as they don't affect my personal life, they can do, say and write whatever and in whichever way they want...that's called liberty yanno...

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:12:42 PM   
lusciouslips19


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My spelling is great and so is my grammar. But my typing sucks. This does not make me lazy. I usually have to go back and change letters and respace. But I am trying to communicate the best I can my thoughts and ideas and perhaps it will make someone feel less alone that they may identify with me. So do I care if some ethnocentric"know it all" is put off by my mispellings? Hell no. You can kiss my grits!

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 7/18/2009 1:13:53 PM >


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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:27:14 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

I have to disagree.  I work in that field, and I have never seen a person who actually wrote a lower case letter and believed it was a capital.


....how strange. So do i.....and i've met plenty.

quote:

I have never met a person who did not know the difference between a period being there and it not being there.


....only when you pointed it out to them probably.....and then they nodded and smiled because the person teaching them told them it was missing.

quote:

If you write nine hundred words without any punctuation, you should know that something is missing.  Retarded people can learn simple grammar and punctuation.  I know because I have met several who have. 


...and i've met several who can't. Doesn't mean that the ideas in their head aren't worth looking for......

quote:

If you can't express your idea, it has no value to anyone but yourself.  You can talk all day into a phone, but if you don't have service, nobody can hear what you are saying. 


....utter tosh.

i assume you are aware of the basic communication model.........sender, medium, receiver. Now, while its nice if the sender does all the work it doesn't always happen like that. It comes down to whether you're going to be lazy about it and expect communication to be given you on a platter or whether you're going to put the effort in a try to see what is being intended.

It's beginning to be clear which one you are.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:28:57 PM   
autoRelease


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

I have to disagree.  I work in that field, and I have never seen a person who actually wrote a lower case letter and believed it was a capital.  I have never met a person who did not know the difference between a period being there and it not being there.  If you write nine hundred words without any punctuation, you should know that something is missing.  Retarded people can learn simple grammar and punctuation.  I know because I have met several who have. 


I'm not sure if you're referring to my post here.

One of my friends married a woman who capitalizes every word of her Facebook status. I'm so disappointed in him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal
If you can't express your idea, it has no value to anyone but yourself. 


Now there I agree with you.  When I got diagnosed with a learning disability, they assured me that learning disabilities have nothing to do with IQ, and in fact people with such disabilities are often very smart.  But intelligence means squat if you can't access or apply it.  For all intents and purposes, I am stupid.  That isn't so bad however, since less is expected of stupid people.



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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:32:55 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Retarded people
Learning disabled, please.


Down's Syndrome.
Dyslexia does not mean you have Down's or Pervasive Developmental Disorder.
Auditory discrimination does not mean you have Down's or PDD.
And so on.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:39:50 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Retarded people
Learning disabled, please.


Down's Syndrome.
Dyslexia does not mean you have Down's or Pervasive Developmental Disorder.
Auditory discrimination does not mean you have Down's or PDD.
And so on.
Celeste...i took issue with the use of "retarded". It is a pet peeve.

When my son was being treated at an institute for children with sensory issues i did a lot of reading (thanks to boredom) of the literature they had available. I seem to recall that Dyslexia is now thought to be a learning disability in fewer cases than in the past. My personal theory is that, as with Autism, the umbrella is widening to encompus more of the milder cases. Just my theory, though.


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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:48:35 PM   
slavekal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Retarded people
Learning disabled, please.

I meant what I said.  Learning Disabled and retarded are two very different things. Retarded is an IQ below 70 with other skills similarly low.  LD is low academic skills which do not match an average or higher IQ.
Philosophy, you have met some extreme cases.  If you don't know the difference between a thing existing and not existing...right before your eyes, I don't know if anyone or anything can help you. 
But all anecdotal stuff aside, the vast majority of people could write clearly and correctly if they actually tried.  If you promised someone a million bucks or put a gun to his/her head, they would look up words they don't know how to spell.  They would start sentences with capital letters. 


< Message edited by slavekal -- 7/18/2009 2:01:26 PM >


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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 1:53:21 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Retarded is an IQ below 70 with other skills similarly low. LD is low academic skills which do not match an average or higher IQ.
and i meant what i said. It is an offensive term to some of us. Try the full term...Mental Retardation. "Retarded" is slang.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:04:03 PM   
slavekal


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Peophttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retardedle are offended by a lot of things in this PC world.  Fine, you want mentally added to it, then mentally retarded it is.  But "retarded" is not slang. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retarded  
And it is still not the same as LD. 

< Message edited by slavekal -- 7/18/2009 2:06:28 PM >


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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:05:35 PM   
TurboJugend


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PC world? Arren't you real then?
I would be pissed in the real world too if you called me that..lol

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:14:51 PM   
slavekal


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It's not good news, for sure.  But if it's true, it's true.  On a positive note, a couple of teachers of retarded kids (we call it cognitively impaired around here), teach their classes very well.  Kids learn multiplication, how to tell time, how to read, and how to write.  Their skills are way stronger than a lot of the "normal" kids out there.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:22:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

But everyone should know that sentences begin with capital letters and end with periods. 


Sentences don't end with periods, they end with full stops.  The only things in my life that have ever ended in periods were my ex-girlfriend's good moods.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:23:35 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

a couple of teachers of retarded kids

You are going to make me pull my hair out.
Do you really want to be personally responsible for a huge bald spot?
Do ya?


Look at it this way...you are talking to a group of lay persons, giving them a tour of the facility. You are leading them to one classroom in particular. Now what sounds better:

This is the retarded class.

OR

This is the Cognitively Impaired class.

As i said...a pet peeve





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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:29:34 PM   
slavekal


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In truth, you should tell the parents both.  They need to be told the full truth.  Idiot, moron, and imbecile used to be clinical terms until the Three Stooges got ahold of them.  Then we started saying retarded.  Then we came up with more terms that sounded nicer.  But if you don't let people know that the latest term actually means retarded, they may build up false hope.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:45:39 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Idiot, moron, and imbecile used to be clinical terms
when i was first told this i did not believe it. I had to look it up and was shocked to see it was true.

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:47:08 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Then we started saying retarded. Then we came up with more terms that sounded nicer. But if you don't let people know that the latest term actually means retarded, they may build up false hope.
point taken 

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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:49:14 PM   
slavekal


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So...you didn't believe me,eh?  Why you imbecile, I oughta....
You are going to flip your lid when you find out that cretin and Mongoloid and feeble minded were also clinical terms decades ago.


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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 2:58:42 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

So...you didn't believe me,eh?  Why you imbecile, I oughta....
You are going to flip your lid when you find out that cretin and Mongoloid and feeble minded were also clinical terms decades ago.

i received quite the education when i looked it up. Mongoloid is still used today and surprisingly, feeble minded was used a time or two when i worked in a nursing home (to describe the patients...not the staff). Now cretin is a surprise.

I was thinking of your former post where you said (basically) it is necessary to use the harsher terms to prevent parents from getting false hope. George Carlin did a non-comedy routine about the different terms used to describe what we now call PTSD with out veterans. He said perhaps if we were still calling it shell-shock they might be getting the help they really need.



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RE: Spelling/Grammar (again?) - 7/18/2009 3:05:50 PM   
nephandi


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quote:

It's not good news, for sure.  But if it's true, it's true.  On a positive note, a couple of teachers of retarded kids (we call it cognitively impaired around here), teach their classes very well.  Kids learn multiplication, how to tell time, how to read, and how to write.  Their skills are way stronger than a lot of the "normal" kids out there.


Yes many mental retardations allow the person to learn to do things, very specifically. However being able to spell a word perfectly do not mean that they can understand it. So who do you wish to talk to, someone who can spell a word perfectly or someone with the mental capacity to use the word?

quote:

But all anecdotal stuff aside, the vast majority of people could write clearly and correctly if they actually tried.  If you promised someone a million bucks or put a gun to his/her head, they would look up words they don't know how to spell.  They would start sentences with capital letters. 


Sure if you put someone in a life or death situation, most pepole can learn, the question is, as this is not a life or death situation is it worth it. I could take hours, and hours and hours of classes to learn to write perfect English, however I would rather spend that time learning a forth language, learning about the Occult, Leaning about BDSM well in short learning things far more useful to me than writing English perfectly as I can make myself understood just fine. However if spelling and grammar is a life and death importance to you, then may I suggest that this forum might not be the best for you but that you should try shallowsnobsforums.com instead for a better chance that you find someone of like mind.

quote:

I have never in my life met a person who would look at a lower case letter and see it as a capital, or who saw nonexistent punctuation marks.


It is not the most common, but  it do happen with dyslexia.

quote:

And they can learn proper word usage and grammar at a middle school level.


I have tried. And I am not stupid. My IQ is above normal, my average grades was B+ But I did never learn proper grammar nor spelling, and that is not because I did not try. You have just no idea of what you are talking about.

quote:

Okay, Mr. smart alecky Nerwegian, let me clarify.  Of COURSE I make allowances for people conversing in a second language.  Most non native English speakers have a better command of English spelling/grammar than Americans do.  And no, I do not speak a second language.  I am an arrogant American.  English is the only language anyone needs. 
Words gettting jumbled was not the point here.  It was people who don't know that sentences start with capital letters, don't know the difference between to and two or there and their, and who don't know that every sentence deserves some sort of punctuation.  And I was not referring to typos.  Hell, we all make those.  I was talking about basic elementary school language and writing skills.  There...do I have a brain now?


From your posts in the rest of this tread, then I would say jury is still out on that brain.

Now, if what you are trying to rant about if punctuation and capital letters then why do you rage generally about spelling and grammar?

quote:

Maybe laziness.  Could have been just an incorrect assumption, though.  I incorrectly attributed such a harsh reply to a male mind.


Most men online seam to think I am male unless I use a very feminine nick. That is okey I enjoy making guesses as to how many posts it will take for them to realize I am a girl. :D

I wish you well

< Message edited by nephandi -- 7/18/2009 3:28:11 PM >


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