quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky
I like to play the victim. I'd like to take power 'without' a Dom even realizing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... i have teased men till they wanted to rape me..

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The problem with "games" is the person playing ultimately ALWAYS LOSES... as will you; here's why:  This dynamic is about CONSENT... thus, a responsible person on the Toppy side of the slash will not take by force that which the submissive has not CONSENTED to.  Therefore:

1. If he loses control and takes what another has not consented to, by all measure, he is not "in control", and you will not respect him.  YOU LOSE.

2. If he respects the rules of consent (which means he respects you) and does not take by force that which you have not CONSENTED to, you view him as weak (instead of honorable), and you will not respect him.  YOU LOSE.

So no matter what, the only REAL loser in all of this is YOU.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The problem with "games" is the person playing ultimately ALWAYS LOSES... as will you; here's why:  This dynamic is about CONSENT... thus, a responsible person on the Toppy side of the slash will not take by force that which the submissive has not CONSENTED to.  Therefore:

1. If he loses control and takes what another has not consented to, by all measure, he is not "in control", and you will not respect him.  YOU LOSE.

2. If he respects the rules of consent (which means he respects you) and does not take by force that which you have not CONSENTED to, you view him as weak (instead of honorable), and you will not respect him.  YOU LOSE.

So no matter what, the only REAL loser in all of this is YOU.

Well I've already given up the game.

quote:

 
I'm simply asking now what to do instead that will inspire the same excitement as my previous example will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

rednicky, there is a concept here you may not have grasped -- perhaps its about the MEN you are choosing if you feel you have to manipulate them instead of simply explaining.   The Men you are choosing obviously aren't giving you what you want from them so now you have created a game.  Maybe you need to pick a different caliber of Men.  When i was mastered by my former Master, i had no clue what slavery was -- the fight i had with him was me trying to control him unintentionally but intentionally because that is HOW I KNEW TO DO IT, he however didn't let me play that game.  However, my fight was a fight for control -- i did it with all the Men in my life and when they allowed me the control i despised them for it, but until my former Master took me and claimed me, i knew of know other way of existance.  Now -- i can SEE you wanting to fight him for control, i can see you wanting him to prove his mastery over you -- however, being dishonest about it when you know you are deliberately NOT telling him something so you can get your rocks off is a game.   You are putting him in a bad and unsecure position in your life because you are withholding informatoin HE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF.    You have acknowledged this isn't about taking it slow -- its about you playing a game to see how far you can push him so you can say to yourself -- i am all that and a box of chips because this man wanted me soo badly he lost his control.  I hate to tell you but IF that happens -- its not about YOU -- its about HIM.  So you are defeating your self-absorbed concept.

You are trying now to explain it or justify it, and you simply do wish to play a game and most likely its a game wherein you have an unwilling person as an opponent.   IF a Man determines to master you -- it will be on his terms.   If you want a Man to master you -- attempting to manipulate him won't feel like he has proven himself to you -- it will feel as if he failed.  And if that is the type of test you are putting him too -- then he needs to know so you are both on the same page.



angel

Why would I let him know when the point is to do all o what I said without letting him know it? But I've already decided that I probably won't go the route of manipulation. Now I'm simply trying to find out how I get my sexual gratification from a man, now that manipulation is out of the question. That's what I'm stuck on. I like to play the victim. I'd like to take power 'without' a Dom even realizing. This is what my sexuality thrives on. Letting him know about it sort of defeats the purpose and I'm left sexually unsatisfied. So at this moment in time, I'm trying to figure out how to do what everyone else has seemed to figure out on their own. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

try this site

http://www.symtoys.com/ideas_scenerape.html

maybe it will give you some ideas

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

rednicky, there is a concept here you may not have grasped -- perhaps its about the MEN you are choosing if you feel you have to manipulate them instead of simply explaining.   The Men you are choosing obviously aren't giving you what you want from them so now you have created a game.  Maybe you need to pick a different caliber of Men.  When i was mastered by my former Master, i had no clue what slavery was -- the fight i had with him was me trying to control him unintentionally but intentionally because that is HOW I KNEW TO DO IT, he however didn't let me play that game.  However, my fight was a fight for control -- i did it with all the Men in my life and when they allowed me the control i despised them for it, but until my former Master took me and claimed me, i knew of know other way of existance.  Now -- i can SEE you wanting to fight him for control, i can see you wanting him to prove his mastery over you -- however, being dishonest about it when you know you are deliberately NOT telling him something so you can get your rocks off is a game.   You are putting him in a bad and unsecure position in your life because you are withholding informatoin HE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF.    You have acknowledged this isn't about taking it slow -- its about you playing a game to see how far you can push him so you can say to yourself -- i am all that and a box of chips because this man wanted me soo badly he lost his control.  I hate to tell you but IF that happens -- its not about YOU -- its about HIM.  So you are defeating your self-absorbed concept.

You are trying now to explain it or justify it, and you simply do wish to play a game and most likely its a game wherein you have an unwilling person as an opponent.   IF a Man determines to master you -- it will be on his terms.   If you want a Man to master you -- attempting to manipulate him won't feel like he has proven himself to you -- it will feel as if he failed.  And if that is the type of test you are putting him too -- then he needs to know so you are both on the same page.



angel

Why would I let him know when the point is to do all o what I said without letting him know it? But I've already decided that I probably won't go the route of manipulation. Now I'm simply trying to find out how I get my sexual gratification from a man, now that manipulation is out of the question. That's what I'm stuck on. I like to play the victim. I'd like to take power 'without' a Dom even realizing. This is what my sexuality thrives on. Letting him know about it sort of defeats the purpose and I'm left sexually unsatisfied. So at this moment in time, I'm trying to figure out how to do what everyone else has seemed to figure out on their own. 

But see, once again you are wrong.  You say you are trying to figure out what everyone else has figured out on their own.  These other submissives are NOT trying to figure out, nor have they figured out, or do any of them give an indication of wanting to figure out how to play "victim" with a dominant with the INTENT of taking the dominant's power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

try this site

http://www.symtoys.com/ideas_scenerape.html

maybe it will give you some ideas

I read your link. In theory, it sounds fun but I've tried acting out a rape scene with someone. I wasn't really into it. Deep down inside I knew the guy wouldn't really hurt me and deep down inside I knew there was no risk. We didn't even get to the sex part because it just wasn't there for me. It's not that I'm looking to go out and get raped for real, though. I just want to believe that I am at the mercy of someone's lust whom I use to feel I trusted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

try this site

http://www.symtoys.com/ideas_scenerape.html

maybe it will give you some ideas

I read your link. In theory, it sounds fun but I've tried acting out a rape scene with someone. I wasn't really into it. Deep down inside I knew the guy wouldn't really hurt me and deep down inside I knew there was no risk. We didn't even get to the sex part because it just wasn't there for me. It's not that I'm looking to go out and get raped for real, though. I just want to believe that I am at the mercy of someone's lust whom I use to feel I trusted.

Ummmm.. you can have that in a heathly D/s relationship. Without manipulation involved to get there. Is it more about what you just wrote here, or more about taking away the DOMs power and him sort of taking it back through Rough Forceful sex as you mentioned previously?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

try this site

http://www.symtoys.com/ideas_scenerape.html

maybe it will give you some ideas

I read your link. In theory, it sounds fun but I've tried acting out a rape scene with someone. I wasn't really into it. Deep down inside I knew the guy wouldn't really hurt me and deep down inside I knew there was no risk. We didn't even get to the sex part because it just wasn't there for me. It's not that I'm looking to go out and get raped for real, though. I just want to believe that I am at the mercy of someone's lust whom I use to feel I trusted.

Ummmm.. you can have that in a heathly D/s relationship. Without manipulation involved to get there. Is it more about what you just wrote here, or more about taking away the DOMs power and him sort of taking it back through Rough Forceful sex as you mentioned previously?

But I already said many times to disregard what I said before, for I have abandoned the idea of carrying out the manipulation. Instead I asked for people to recommend what I'd best do in order to obtain the same desire and excitement I had during my previous hypothetical example. You are claiming that you know of a way I could obtain is within a healthy relationship?

quote:

How could you tell the difference between someone who seriously wants to take things slow and someone who is manipulating?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Rednicky,

You can have a D/s relationship where you don't have to manipulate somebody into taking you by force. You are not the only submissive that is into being taken and ravished with a passion. There are Doms out there that are into this, and it's all not some scene play either.

Two things have been ruled out on this thread so far.

1. Manipulating A Dom into it
2. Scene rape play ain't cutting it for you.

So you need to find something in the middle, somebody that is reasonably sane and likes to take girls by force and have his way with 'em without trying to act it out as a scene. Somebody you don't have to manipulate into doing it either.

Manipulation is damning to all relationships, especially D/s ones. The Scene play attempts you've made have been Lamo for you. Think this sums it up.

Find somebody reasonably sane that's a Dom who is into this as well. A Dom that wants to Take a submissive by force, where it's sort of rape but not really rape because you consent to this as part of the relationship. Where you don't have to stage a special Lamo rape scene that just does not cut it for you. Sound like you are wanting is "Animalistic Sex" if you ask me.

This is just something to explore in your thoughts. Does not damage D/s, both parties are into it and it's not a staged scene. So yeah, this is what I would consider healthy at least within the parameters of things so far.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

Personally sexual deprivation is the worst thing that could happen, next to being forced to watch Rush Limbougghhhhhhh  (gag)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Well davan, we wouldn't 'know' that I'm calling the shots and that I'm actually depriving him. He'd just think I'd want to take the relationship slowly until I'm ready to take that step to intimacy.

and smile is one vote for breaking up with a woman who moves slowly.