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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 8:55:32 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

What sort of amazes me is the fact DOMs get the rap for pushing soft/hard limits. Yet, submissives are just as guilty of this too. Personally speaking, I've had women talk me into doing things that pushed passed some of my own internal limits. Only to find myself mind puking and going OMG I can't believe I just did that.
if you were "pushed" into it be your submissive then i would say it was not much of a limit, she was not much of a submissive, and you were...i'll stop here.


The Word "Push" is the hanging point here and one of debate. However, with all things being said. A submissive that enjoys certain activities that the Dominant has never done before. Is what I am getting at with this. Where the submissive makes a case that a given activitity is not as bad it is might appear to be. That they are into doing this, would love to have the Dom do this to them.

In fact this, is what happened with me, when I engaged in Rape Play for the very first time. She did not have to push very hard, simply present the desire for it. I myself had to figure out if I would or would not cross the limit inside my mind. The word PUSH does not have to mean using A LOT of force, power or great amount of manipulation.

People can be gently pushed by another into a direction lightly and not some major hair pulling ordeal.

Now with this said, the same girl convinced me to take a plastic Garbage Bag over her head at a later date. She showed up at my house and we were hanging out talking about crap and slurping down Pepsi and Ice Cream mixed together. She started talking about plastic bags over the head. I thought she was fucking nutz at first. Because up until that day, it would be a cold day in HELL before I would wrap a bag around somebody's head.

Anyways, she asked if she could get a bag out of my kitchen and show me. Anwyays, she managed to talk me into giving her permission to do it, that she would like to demonstrate it out on herself first. Which was common practice between the two of us. Sort of show and tell kind of thing.

Anyways, she held it over her head for a bit. Well played around with timing involved with it. Hell, I even was holding the damn bag over my own head to get a feel for it. Trust me, see managed to gain enough of my trust that I myself was holding the stupid bag over my head. We even were timing things out as well.

Okay, now the next part. Rape Play on my living room floor using the Damn Bag over her head.. me getting into it.,. her down on her hands and knees.. saying mean cruel things and well.. you get the idea here.

Now for the life of me, trust me.. I found that I had limits to these things that I myself had to Cross over into Doming somebody's ass on. It was like somebody handing me new activities and tools and things to do to another human being. Me jumping past my own internal limits.

Trust me, I was not the one trying to push for Rape Play or Holding Plastic Bags over anybody's head. But in the END.. you betcha I was. After the first few mind blowing times, I become comfortable enough with my ownself doing this stuff to another human being.

So yeah, her desires to do something sort of pushed me into new directions.

So pushing limits and activities too many people have notions of D/s applied to the Nth degree at times. Too much bullshit talking about what If's and conforminity to the stereotyping of Orientations or D/s itself goes on here.

Do does this make me a service top at times? I guess perhaps in the beginning of things. Then again, any Dom wiorth their salt should know and be in tunned with what a submissive like and does not like as well.

Please excuse me for my Life experinces conflicting with your brainwashed stereotyped mindset on the matter. Now it's my turn to say, I think I'd better stop here,

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:07:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?


well, Master has hard limits...that He (not His slave) decided upon, but they don't follow your definition as stated here:

quote:

...something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal...


for us, it simply means the things that Master is unwilling to participate in/consume/perform or direct His slave to participate in/consume/perform.  this slave does not limit Him...hard or soft.  the definition Master uses doesn't have the specific qualifier of irreperable damage, of some sort, being done...most often,it is just something He doesn't like...like brussels sprouts or casual sex.

(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:22:53 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This hard/soft stuff is also nonsense.


i wont fuck a dog... ever.

i wont have anal... until i trust you.



What if you meet a dog you really, really trust? Like... you know... Underdog, maybe. Or Rin Tin Tin. He seems quite reliable.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:28:08 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		But each person has their own definition of what "limits" means to t hem. CM is not responsible for telling people what the word should mean to them. You may think a knife shouldn't bother most people but if that person has had a bad experience in their past with knives then yes they should list it as a hard limit.

Just because people do not agree with your definition of a word does not mean that theirs is wrong, they just have a different perspective.

Hard limit to me means something that will never be tried or attempted due to some possible harm. I respect that.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:43:35 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		I seriously have to express this as well. The experinces in engaging in Rape play and plastic bags over heads and many other crazy activities. I was doing a lot of shit without knowing jack shit about BDSM itself or the Lifestyle and the Labels and orientations. So there was Zero pressure to live up to or mold myself into some stereotype notion of D/s or labels.

I'm sort of a reverse entry person when it comes to BDSM and many twisted activities. Hell some things such as pricking somebody with diabetic Lancets for the fun of it, are not even listed as an activitity. Yet I was doing this long before discovering the BDSM lifestyle.

Then again, I was probally the only teenager in my school to make a home made bed of nails cause of watching crap on Ripley's Believe it or not. Really awesome to show it off to others as well. Not to mention the same girl as I wrote about, could not wait to lay down on it and yeah,,, Just more things to do.

It's actually very entertaining to see the looks upon other faces when they see you have a bed of nails hanging out in your bedroom. Even more so when you show it off, and even better when you have a girl who's face lights up and can't wait to rip her clothes off and lay down on it.

If anything my life now days seems/feels a little tame compared to my teenage years, my 20 something years and half of my 30 something years. Oh yeah, I spent 1/2 of the my 30 something years trying to be vanilla.. and knock off all the crazy shit and become more normal.

There are a few facets to me and who I am that could be looked at as being a little switchy at times. But that's all relative in a sense. Theh again, I'll just play the DOM card and tell you, I'll do things my way. I'm a little hard headed. Think it has something to do culturally rooted from PA Dutch background. Then again, my grandfather was kind of guy that would take a switch off a tree with a pocket knife and not think twice about using it on the ass. Now days, that's not so politically correct. I know the feeling of having had a belt taking across my own ass as a child, and having felt the sting of a switches from trees and one time the feeling of a fiber glass fish poll rod on it too.

I'm not into having somebody whip my ass like this, it really does nothing for me. However, I know I can damn well take and have taken it before. Some people can dish shit out, but they don't begin to comprehend the levels of pain nor mental space they are tossing somebody else into.

So yeah, I never had any problems picking up a belt and spanking some girls ass when the time and opportunity first presented itself to me. The Butt can handle quiet a bit. Why did I magically know this? Because of what my own ass went through as a kid. So yeah, childhood experiences do and can translate very well into the mix of things.

Mind you, I hate having my own ass spanked, but I myself know I can take it. Then again, I do have a maso streak. But when I want a taste for pain, it's anywhere but my own ass end, and I most certainly am not submissive when it comes to relationships. I don't submit myself to doing whatever somebody else wants to do. Now perhaps if they were to tell me what they would want to do to me, and I was in control of the situation, I might consider it. However, being somebody's subbie boy... that just ain't happening.

In regards to little girls. This Daddy loves to do things for his little girl at times. But that's a different story. It's a nuturing, I care for you mentality that comes from the heart. Not some wicked force of darkness that involves Rape play, nicking the skin, tasting blood, beds of nails.. or blah blah blah...

So in regards to limits. What does this have to do with it. Hell, I know some of my own limits to crap. I can certain things as well as dish it out. I do want things my way and enjoy those things. I also enjoy the power and ability to grant wishes and desires. I've granted wishes, such as engaging in Rape Play or Plastic Bags over the head. Why? Because I was able to get past my own internal hang ups and do something somebody else enjoyed doing. Being Dom does not mean being selfish asshole of the universe.

I'm into pleasing my partner as much as I am into being pleased. If being selfish is a requirement for being a DOM, then I want no part of that label. If being DOM means it's unacceptable for me to please a submissive or anybody else.. Then please... go ahead and think the less of me for it. I am simply not a Dominant in your book. However, know that I myself do question how far they have D/s and their orientations shoved in certain places.

Good lord, I'm on a rant today. I'm waiting for the line of people to show up with pitch forks and torches looking to revoke my BDSM membership card or conduct a formal hearing investigation into my orientation.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:44:13 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline 		people might have no limits inside their "box"  outside..they will have

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 9:54:29 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

The experinces in engaging in Rape play and plastic bags over heads and many other crazy activities. I was doing a lot of shit without knowing jack shit about BDSM itself or the Lifestyle and the Labels and orientations. So there was Zero pressure to live up to or mold myself into some stereotype notion of D/s or labels.
Let me ask you something. If you can remove yourself from your BDSM role and put yourself in vanilla mode for a moment. You are getting intimate with a female and she asks you to put a plastic bag over her head. Honestly...would your response been the same?


_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:23:26 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto
I got a bug up my ass, as I have said, I really don't think like that.  I have several mentors who would probably kick my ass for posting something like that.

Heh, not a stellar OP but a great recovery! 10 points!

Welcome to collarme.

(and damn! I need to come up with something smart to say soon, I'm running low on points).


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:30:07 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

(and damn! I need to come up with something smart to say soon, I'm running low on points).


Quit giving them away, slacker!

Geez.

*slips Jeff a 10*


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:31:58 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

The experinces in engaging in Rape play and plastic bags over heads and many other crazy activities. I was doing a lot of shit without knowing jack shit about BDSM itself or the Lifestyle and the Labels and orientations. So there was Zero pressure to live up to or mold myself into some stereotype notion of D/s or labels.
Let me ask you something. If you can remove yourself from your BDSM role and put yourself in vanilla mode for a moment. You are getting intimate with a female and she asks you to put a plastic bag over her head. Honestly...would your response been the same?



Actually, to be honest YES. In terms of Vanilla or BDSM roles.. there is no difference for me either way.

I want to stress that many activities I got started in, before I knew about BDSM to even have a BDSM mode.

Plus, social adjustments I have had to make along my way in life. I actually got seperated from other kids for awhile in pre-School because I was trying to boss them around. I did'nt know any better either. Funny thing, I was the only kid in class that seemed to have this problem too. I was not allowed to play with others and that was my punishment. Seperation and isolation, along with being lectured about the importance of playing a long with others.

In playing along with others, I actually discovered some kids wanted to be bossed around. Those kids that did not, I would simply not play with. So call it a modified form of playing along with other kids.

However, there would be this territorial pissing match at times over who was who's friend. Stuff that really shined when it came to picking kids for kick ball teams. It was just a matter of being a more adjusted socialized Boss.

But none the less, when it comes to crazy shit... trust me... I would be doing regardless if the concept of BDSM existed or not. I would still be doing kinky stuff, I would be doing off the wall stuff, as long as their was somebody else that was into kinky strange off the wall stuff too with me. I would still find that Girl that would follow me and be my side kick in doing crazy things. Hand and Hand like Jack and Jill... off in our own universe. It would not be the social norm of society.

I've never fit into the social norms of society. I have always been off the path of the norms.

Then again, considering my childhood and life circumstances, there was no way in hell for me to ever be truely vanilla. Not in a D/s household that went by old school PA sort of Dutch ways, also the abuse I went through from the teenage boy that lived across the street. Then the move to Mobile, AL and the social adjustments there. Culturally I was screwed out of being Vanilla, Being an abuse Victim Screwed be out of being Vanilla, and genetically... I may have been screwed as well (somewhat subjective there).

My mind was sponge when it came to seeing things on TV, being drawn into KINK... my earliest childhood fantasies of sex.. I was not right in the head either. I was in 4th Grade when I found myself drawn to thoughts of pissing on girls.

I assure you when I was in 4th Grade I did not know Jack shit about BDSM, awhole lifestyle. I just know I was drawn to the idea of having girls lay down naked on bathroom floors and the thoughts of Pissing on them made me horney as hell.

I lived with a lot of shame and confusion as a kid, stuff I would have never dreamed of sharing with anybody. Thank God for encountering Girls along the way in life that were equally twisted up in the head. I knew I was not entirely alone. Then discovering BDSM and the Lifestyle was a blessing in my life. I knew there were people into S&M when I was younger. That was about the limit to my understanding of things regarding the lifestyle.

So yeah, I would be sticking a plastic Bag over somebody's head in the Vanilla context of things as well.

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:33:11 AM   
maturesub42


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2009
Status: offline 		Limit=stop=no way, like a road sign. It could be no sex with a woman if you are not a lesbian and do not wish to try, it could be yes to caning, no to flogging. Depending on your history. Simple enough.

(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:42:42 AM   
LILPrincessIzzy


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline 		  Look I have some very hard limits do to what they do to me mental but there is a friend who had knife play as a hard limit cause she doesn't trust anyone to do that too her. Sometimes hard limits are just cause you cant trust anyone or your self with it.

Also there is things that you cant help I refuse to do certain thing cause they are against what morals I have, will it ruin me in any way? Most likely not but I still have them as hard limits.

< Message edited by LILPrincessIzzy -- 7/28/2009 10:44:23 AM >

(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:56:52 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Here's a quote from the article I linked to.

What is termed as a "hard limit" for you is something you will not do under any circumstance and is outside [y]our individual sphere of acceptance for any reason.... You should not have to explain to anyone but yourself and your Dominant why a certain activity is a hard limit.

You know what they say: "If the assless chaps fit, wear them."

You know Red... over time I've slowly reconciled myself to the fact that if I watch the movie Secretary and all I can see is a great love story, then I pretty much have to give up on my vanilla-ness. But in this case, it's not me failing to identify with BDSM-land.

In this case I really don't understand this definition of hard imits. The only things what would fit that definition would be in my list of "If I am even having this conversation then something's radically wrong." I mean seriously, suppose I were talking to some prospective sub and she said to me, "And under no circumstances will I obey if you command me to murder my sister." My response to that wouldn't be 'Oh, that's a reasonable hard limit." My response would be to wonder what sort of person I'd somehow wandered into and to disengage at the earliest possible moment. Kind of like when I saw the boxes of steak for the college cafeteria had "Fit for human consumption" stamped on the side of them, it didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 10:59:44 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You don't get to decide anybody else's hard limits, op. Just because a knife on your skin wouldn't cause you harm doesn't mean it doesn't for someone else. Nor do you get to decide if they don't play edgy enough.

Don't like their limits, don't get involved with them. That's all that matters. Personally I don't care if cme or the op or the President puts down a list of official hard limits, I won't allow anybody but me to decide them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 11:02:05 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
...most often,it is just something He doesn't like...like brussels sprouts or casual sex.

OMG. I think I'm in love with you beth... *splutters in laughter*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 11:03:03 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits.  By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal.  Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack



Well Mr Vanilla Ice Cream Cone, once again the avatar is living up to itself.

As others have said, (and I don't even have to read the whole thread to know this) your limits are yours, mine are mine, and I guaranfuckintee they are not the same.

Get over yourself..........pronto.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to GaPhoto)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 11:08:54 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I guess what I was trying to say ( a bit at your expense, sorry, tho I liked the assless chaps line) is this.

All the healthy D/s relationships I have seen look very much like the healthy vanilla relationships I have seen.    And, frankly, almost all the vanilla relationships I have seen, healthy or not, included some form of power exchange, where one of the spouses was the primary decision maker.

It's kind of like two lesbians or gay men acting as parents.  That will cause a lot of people to freak out completely, because that is "perverted and disgusting" and "totally different" from a man and a woman acting as parents.  But the psychological rules of good parenting are still pretty much the same for both homosexual and heterosexual couples.

Our sexual urges don't make us as different from others as a lot of people -- on both sides of the "nilla/kink divide" -- would like to think.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 2:06:05 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This hard/soft stuff is also nonsense.


i wont fuck a dog... ever.

i wont have anal... until i trust you.



What if you meet a dog you really, really trust? Like... you know... Underdog, maybe. Or Rin Tin Tin. He seems quite reliable.




even rin tin tin couldnt do it for me

but... a Panda... hmmmm

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 2:11:55 PM   
Zeknpet


Posts: 38
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		I just forwarded a script for a new television series called Hump Joe Hump to NATPE National Association of Television Program Executives
Let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.



_____________________________

Local to Arizona? Come join us :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 2:42:12 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I guess what I was trying to say ( a bit at your expense, sorry, tho I liked the assless chaps line) is this.

*laughs* Not to worry. In fact, I'd say that line would've been a perfect response to about 50% of my posts up to a month or two ago. I was having some real issues with those chaps.

quote:

All the healthy D/s relationships I have seen look very much like the healthy vanilla relationships I have seen.    And, frankly, almost all the vanilla relationships I have seen, healthy or not, included some form of power exchange, where one of the spouses was the primary decision maker.

This, of course, is incredibly apparent to me who happened to have made the vanilla->BDSM transition just recently and with the same woman. I actually have about as perfect an apples/apples comparison as you can get. In a lot of ways, our marriage looks like it always has just with a lot more smiling going on.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 80
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