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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 2:46:33 PM

DomImus

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i wont fuck a dog... ever.

That would be a limit.

i wont have anal... until i trust you.

Which means you actually will have anal. Not a limit.

See how easy that was? Either you do it or you don't.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 2:57:46 PM

tazzygirl

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i wouldnt have anal with you. a limit. i may not say that about another man. maybe not a limit. see how soft it can become?

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:10:25 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
...most often,it is just something He doesn't like...like brussels sprouts or casual sex.

OMG. I think I'm in love with you beth... *splutters in laughter*

aww shucks!!!

but seriously...this slave really enjoyed brussels sprouts and casual sex...before she became the slave half of the partnership Mercnbeth. however, this slave neither limits Him as to what He may or may not do nor does she put limits on what He may or may not limit her to do. so, as His slave, enjoying brussels sprouts and casual sex are right out...even if they don't cause irreperable emotional or physical damage.

so many folks operate under the misguided assumption that limits are an essential part of what a submissive/slave partner brings into the relationship, or else it ain't gonna fly...and they overlook the fact that sometimes, it is the dominant partner that brings the limits that must be respected into the relationship, or else it ain't gonna fly.

it isn't for everyone...like many aspects of our relationship, but it has worked and does work for us.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:12:11 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
Either you do it or you don't.

Exactly.
There is no limits. Just dos or don'ts.
See how easy that is?

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/28/2009 3:45:09 PM >

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:15:06 PM

tazzygirl

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if thats how you wish to have your relationship, then do so. some of us prefer a bit of caution. and we have limits

a rectal tear and nine months to heal... yeah... ill hold on to that limit for now

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:25:29 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

if thats how you wish to have your relationship, then do so. some of us prefer a bit of caution. and we have limits

a rectal tear and nine months to heal... yeah... ill hold on to that limit for now

You know they make Anal Dialation kits to help with that ahead of time, just like there are vaginal Dialation kits for similar issues but different hole.

Sure the guy should not thrust in it hard right away quicky, however it also requires the recieving party to be able to relax. So that's sort of a two way street.

But if you ain't working on being able to recieve anal sex, it's probally ain't the best thing for you to do anyways. Limit or not.

There's a reason why people use Dialations kits. Same holds true for deep throating where one can practice up on it and get use to it ahead of time.

What I'm trying to express is that it's not all up to the DOMs to be responsble for activity readiness or not.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 7/28/2009 3:33:47 PM >

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:33:18 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

if thats how you wish to have your relationship, then do so. some of us prefer a bit of caution. and we have limits

a rectal tear and nine months to heal... yeah... ill hold on to that limit for now

It's exactly the same tazzy, only worded differently.

the.dark.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:37:24 PM

littlewonder

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and how exactly do you know that running a knife against someone's skin won't harm them emotionally or otherwise?

Have you ever been attacked at knifepoint? Ever had one stuck up against your throat? You know for a fact this won't emotionally break someone huh?

You're young yet though. Still wet behind the ears.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 3:42:57 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

and how exactly do you know that running a knife against someone's skin won't harm them emotionally or otherwise?

Have you ever been attacked at knifepoint? Ever had one stuck up against your throat? You know for a fact this won't emotionally break someone huh?

You're young yet though. Still wet behind the ears.

Wow Excellent point, about PTSD and how something can trigger an attack. However on the flip side is that reliving the experience in safe and controlled setting also can therapy.
Still none the less, it's a limit regardless that needs to be addressed and handled with care when dealing with another human being,

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 4:00:52 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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I'm sitting here thinking about how stupid this all sort of is anyways.

I have yet to be involved or meet somebody who was not willing to share their known limits, who was not willing to talk about them, and even share the reasons why their limits are/were limits.

As somebody else pointed out, Doms also have limits as well. Yet, for some reason as was mentioned many people focus upon the sub/slaves limits.

What two people combined, in terms of activities and limits, both bring to the table is what matters.

The can be said for the Level of Power being exchanged as well. Some sub/slave turns everything they own over to their Dom/me. Others maintain financial independence and reserve some liberties and rights. The Level of D/s is rather relative and subjective even.

Limits are rather relative and subjective, depending upon levels. Just how hard is hard and how soft is soft.

What I don't see expressed is somebody saying I have a Medium soft limit with blah blah blah.. or they have a Medium Hard limit, or an Extra Crispy Hard limit, or a Jello Soft limit.

In terms of the formulation of limits, some of it is based upon preception or misconception, some of it is based upon actually past experiences, some of it is mental pre-exploration of activities they know nothing about. So there are no hard written in stone method to determine why somebody has a hard limit. Best way to find out is to simply talk about it. Keeps all the guess work out of things.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 4:02:34 PM

tazzygirl

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dang, now i have to fry my limits?

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 91

RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 4:25:51 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

I have not read all the posts, so if I am repetitive, my apologies.

First of all, just as everyone's definition of a sub or a slave, or how the relationship is supposed to start, continue and flourish is different, so are people's limits. I'm sure if you actually took the time to search the web, you would find the definitions that your young, inquisitive mind is seeking.

Second, look at the portion I bolded above. Exactly where do YOU come to have the knowledge to know what you can and can't heal in another person? Granted in a long term relationship where the partners really, really know each other, each partner becomes attuned to the other and are able to HELP each other through things. However, in most cases, the concept of the "all knowing and powerful dom" is a bunch of crap. Certainly there are many very intelligent dominants out there who are very well informed about many different things. But does that mean that they are capable of resolving mental health issues? In most cases no. Does that mean that they are able to prescribe medications should they do something that gives you an infection? Again, most of the time, no.

A "hard limit" is not something that, in searching for a relationship, anyone with half a brain is going to allow someone else to determine. It would be like asking your dentist to perform open heart surgery, it's just stupid. When looking for a relationship, it isn't up to the other person to determine what will or will not be something "they can't heal." It's up to each individual. It isn't YOUR decision what I determine falls within the confines of honor or RACK FOR ME.

By the way, FetLife isn't the be all, end all of the fetish world. Many of us are members there, or have checked it out and find this site, and these forums to be much more enjoyable to participate in.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 4:34:12 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Most but not all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

I actually find some of the stated hard limits on here a bit funny. (Mine are intentionally so). I love when people feel they need to explicitly state that "children" are a hard limit. Pretty much ALL of us have that as a hard limit - I hope.

OP - good save. You're ok in my book. I get to say who's ok. It's MY book.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 5:01:03 PM

pixidustpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

I actually find some of the stated hard limits on here a bit funny. (Mine are intentionally so). I love when people feel they need to explicitly state that "children" are a hard limit. Pretty much ALL of us have that as a hard limit - I hope.

OP - good save. You're ok in my book. I get to say who's ok. It's MY book.

i read that differently than you did....i read it as "i dont want children, dont plan on having children, if you have children i dont want to have you as my submissive/dominant" not as having children in the room...cause, um, no way.

kitten

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 5:43:25 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

A hard limit (by definition) is a limit that cannot be surpassed. Like hitting a road barrier there is a physical limit, and, as in the analogy of the road barrier, there is a concrete consequence of hitting up against that barrier.
But as with any operational definition it is only meaningful in personal context. The context of a limit is that it is personal. In other words my limits are my limits and no one else's. Even my no-limits are my no-limits.
Further to my definition of limits: my limits are a function of relationship. What i mean by this is that in certain relationships I have no limits. In others i most certainly do. My limits are stated up front and open to negotiation before any scene or play tales place.
The concept of hard limit also is only meaningful as a comparative. Like a hard outcome (say a paper trail) a soft limit can be permeable and changed (like the soft equivalent of a paper trail is something that is spoken). Soft limits mutate and change and shift within a scene or during play. Soft limits are also a function of relationship and have an agreed modus operandi like safe words, counting on a scale, dropping a hand held obeject or touching tje other's skin twice or three times. These are some of the ways I have indicared preferences to stop, conriue or intensify.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 6:29:06 PM

InvisibleBlack

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For what it's worth, I think that limits evolved as a sort of shorthand. It's much easier if doing a scene in a club or, say, writing an online profile to simply say "my hard limits are...", "my soft limits are...". etc. than it is to spend an hour discussing (or writing an 80 page dissertation for a web site) what is just flat out beyond the pale no matter what, what makes you uncomfortable, what you might be willing to do once trust is established, and so on. That makes it easy for someone invovled in a (fairly) brief club scene or skimming profiles online to know what's okay and what's not.

If the goal is an ongoing BDSM relationship, I would certainly hope that anyone would go beyond a simple listing of limits and actually have the extended discussion or whatever level of communication it would take to understand where the boundaries are, what the reasons are for those boundaries, and where it's safe to experiment and where it's not. These things also change over time. Something that once seemed so terrifying it was incomprehensible can become intriguing. Something that once was considered may be off-limits after it was tried and the experience was abysmal.

In my experience, the definition of "hard limit" that I see most commonly accepted is as several others have stated: something the person will not do under any circumstances and a "soft limit" is something the person will consider under the right circumstances ... but I think that too many people fall for the ease of the shorthand as the be-all and end-all of the interaction. Nothing subsititues for clear, open communication and trust - and those things take time and effort to develop.

Oh, and this is my first post so "Hi". Figured I'd just jump right in. Nice to meet you all.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 6:44:05 PM

tazzygirl

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hi InvisibleBlack, and welcome to the boards!

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 6:47:45 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

For what it's worth, I think that limits evolved as a sort of shorthand. It's much easier if doing a scene in a club or, say, writing an online profile to simply say "my hard limits are...", "my soft limits are...". etc. than it is to spend an hour discussing (or writing an 80 page dissertation for a web site) what is just flat out beyond the pale no matter what, what makes you uncomfortable, what you might be willing to do once trust is established, and so on. That makes it easy for someone invovled in a (fairly) brief club scene or skimming profiles online to know what's okay and what's not.

If the goal is an ongoing BDSM relationship, I would certainly hope that anyone would go beyond a simple listing of limits and actually have the extended discussion or whatever level of communication it would take to understand where the boundaries are, what the reasons are for those boundaries, and where it's safe to experiment and where it's not. These things also change over time. Something that once seemed so terrifying it was incomprehensible can become intriguing. Something that once was considered may be off-limits after it was tried and the experience was abysmal.

In my experience, the definition of "hard limit" that I see most commonly accepted is as several others have stated: something the person will not do under any circumstances and a "soft limit" is something the person will consider under the right circumstances ... but I think that too many people fall for the ease of the shorthand as the be-all and end-all of the interaction. Nothing subsititues for clear, open communication and trust - and those things take time and effort to develop.

Oh, and this is my first post so "Hi". Figured I'd just jump right in. Nice to meet you all.

Dear InvisibleBlack
Yes I agree 'hard limit' has become a shorthand.
And I also agree that limits evolve...I lnpw mine have.
Welcome to the forums.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 6:50:01 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack
For what it's worth, I think that limits evolved as a sort of shorthand. It's much easier if doing a scene in a club or, say, writing an online profile to simply say "my hard limits are...", "my soft limits are...". etc. than it is to spend an hour discussing ...

I wonder this also. Since I don't scene, club, or in any way "play", my viewpoint is pretty much restricted to long-term relationships. And within that context, the whole hard/soft limits thing seems like some sort of awkward transplant... an inadequate tool to express the actual complexity of a relationship that has gone on for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. If I'm worried about decades, I can afford to take hours to have the conversation thoroughly and properly. On the other hand, if I was just wanting to hook up for an hour of play, I would not want to have to do 4 days of conversation before-hand to fully understand the person in question.

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RE: Limits - 7/28/2009 8:57:34 PM

catize

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quote:

In this case I really don't understand this definition of hard imits. The only things what would fit that definition would be in my list of "If I am even having this conversation then something's radically wrong." I mean seriously, suppose I were talking to some prospective sub and she said to me, "And under no circumstances will I obey if you command me to murder my sister." My response to that wouldn't be 'Oh, that's a reasonable hard limit." My response would be to wonder what sort of person I'd somehow wandered into and to disengage at the earliest possible moment.

I understand why you would feel that way because your leader/follower life evolved with your long term partner. Try to understand, though, that such a comment from a prospective submissive would probably come from her experiences on-line and viewed by her as a necessary preemptive statement.
Personally, I won’t even discuss ‘limits’ in the beginning, but I get many initial e-mails which focus solely on limits.. The men who write those e-mails are only interested in me as the potential “true” submissive. Some are amusing and some are very very scary. When bombarded with the scary ones, we tend to get self-protective. Unfortunately that can come across as histrionic.

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