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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:09:09 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl
I'm one of those crazy homeschoolers, though.

Is it for religious reasons, because you don't trust your local public system, or a combination of these two reasons, or more?


Mostly the system here sucks. We ran into some good individuals over the years, but on the whole there are not enough resources that make it to the student/teacher level, the classes are too big, the teachers are not well equipped to deal with anyone who deviates from the norm, etc. Plus, in general, he wasn't learning anything.

He was picking out stacks of books at the library (the public library, he wasn't ALLOWED to read above grade level at the school library) and learning a ton from those, but in class he was completing worksheets before the teacher was done handing them out. It was ridiculous.

There are lots of other more personal reasons, but we never would have gotten to them if it weren't for the complete dissatisfaction with the educational situation he was in.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:10:32 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I CAN tell you that most--not many, MOST--arrive at college without reading, grammar and composition skills, despite many earning A grades in English, including AP students.
I don't understand how this is possible!

The government, locally with Federal mandates, has been responsible for public education for generations. How is it possible that it is generating a generation of kids who among those things pointed out also; "has no clue where England is and seems to believe Europe is a country". Compounding matters the same curriculum is teaching; "that God created everything"?

Does the ACLU know about this? They removed a cross from the shield of CA yet they don't confront an obvious case of State sanctioned religious training?

Did Florida secede from the Union and it just didn't make the papers out here?

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:18:01 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I CAN tell you that most--not many, MOST--arrive at college without reading, grammar and composition skills, despite many earning A grades in English, including AP students.
I don't understand how this is possible!

The government, locally with Federal mandates, has been responsible for public education for generations. How is it possible that it is generating a generation of kids who among those things pointed out also; "has no clue where England is and seems to believe Europe is a country". Compounding matters the same curriculum is teaching; "that God created everything"?

Does the ACLU know about this? They removed a cross from the shield of CA yet they don't confront an obvious case of State sanctioned religious training?

Did Florida secede from the Union and it just didn't make the papers out here?


Someone, somewhere, is benefitting from this under-educated, unchallenging workforce.

By the way, the kid in question learnt that 'God created everything' in a private school.




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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:19:55 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I CAN tell you that most--not many, MOST--arrive at college without reading, grammar and composition skills, despite many earning A grades in English, including AP students.
I don't understand how this is possible!

The government, locally with Federal mandates, has been responsible for public education for generations. How is it possible that it is generating a generation of kids who among those things pointed out also; "has no clue where England is and seems to believe Europe is a country". Compounding matters the same curriculum is teaching; "that God created everything"?

Does the ACLU know about this? They removed a cross from the shield of CA yet they don't confront an obvious case of State sanctioned religious training?

Did Florida secede from the Union and it just didn't make the papers out here?


I don't think it's especially new that public education fails a lot of people. In another thread on these boards someone was all confused about the geography overseas.

I think it used to not matter so much. When we had industry and living wage jobs in abundance for the average person who could read and write and add and that's about it, there was no outcry because the general need was being met. The job marketplace is very different now, and therefore when someone graduates with huge knowledge gaps it's obvious and kind of horrifying.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:22:39 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Although to be fair to the education system, if its aim is to churn out good little soldiers who never question anything, then it's a roaring success.

PS: hastening to add... that parents have a huge amount of responsibility in what their children are taught. It is up to us, as parents, to supplement whatever education our children receive in schools. I still can't believe the number of people whose entire library at home consists of romance novels and 'how to' books by the likes of Dr Phil   .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 8/18/2009 1:29:27 PM >

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:28:58 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

God created everything' in a private school.
That explains it. I reread the sentence and should have understood that. I trust you've removed her from such an environment. Good thing if that's also where she thought that "Europe was a country".

quote:

Although to be fair to the education system, if its aim is to churn out good little soldiers who never question anything, then it's a roaring success.
Must be in the public employees sector. Everyone I know, including myself, complains about the public educational system is graduating unqualified employees. It seems consistent with what is being documented in this thread.


< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/18/2009 1:33:05 PM >

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:31:20 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Although to be fair to the education system, if its aim is to churn out good little soldiers who never question anything, then it's a roaring success.

PS: hastening to add... that parents have a huge amount of responsibility in what their children are taught. It is up to us, as parents, to supplement whatever education our children receive in schools. I still can't believe the number of people whose entire library at home consists in romance novels and 'how to' books by the likes of Dr Phil   .


I agree but I have to wonder just what the hell they get up to all day that they need to come home after being in school from 8-3 five days a week and still need more formal schoolwork. We manage 3-4 days a week 3-5 hours a day and get done WAY more than he would be getting in school.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:33:41 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

That explains it. I reread the sentence and should have understood that. I trust you've removed her from such an environment. Good thing if that's also where she thought that "Europe was a country".



It's not up to me: she is not my child, so I can make no decisions when it comes to her education. All I can do is try and share with her a different viewpoint than the (very limited) one she is taught both at home, and in school. It's a shame, because she's a very bright child, but also the kind of child who knows how to successfully complete test papers and assignments, and yet who seems to deliberately limit herself. Perhaps it'll change: she's going into high school this year.

Alea jacta est...

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:45:08 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:


I agree but I have to wonder just what the hell they get up to all day that they need to come home after being in school from 8-3 five days a week and still need more formal schoolwork. We manage 3-4 days a week 3-5 hours a day and get done WAY more than he would be getting in school.


Not if you had 35-40 kids, though--and parents and administration to answer to.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:51:07 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Why not promote an American standard of education instead?


Because three hundred million people will never agree on what is American - nor should they have to.

quote:

If people want to indoctrinate their offsprings by suppressing their socialisation, I suppose it is up to them, but it is tantamount to abusing them, in my opinion.


If you're talking about home schooling - I don't see how that suppresses their socialization (unless the parents are keeping them locked inside all day and night).

quote:

As for private schools... whoopee doo for those that can afford them. The rest of us will have to contend with what's available publicly (libewals that we are)... incidentally, it is in a local private school that my stepdaughter, then aged 11, was taught that God created everything, and that evolution was a fallacy.


Not all private schools are religious schools.


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:51:51 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:


I agree but I have to wonder just what the hell they get up to all day that they need to come home after being in school from 8-3 five days a week and still need more formal schoolwork. We manage 3-4 days a week 3-5 hours a day and get done WAY more than he would be getting in school.


Not if you had 35-40 kids, though--and parents and administration to answer to.


True they can't get as much done or move as fast. It just seems crazy to me that they would have the kids for 7 hours a day 5 days a week and that the kids would still need significant supplemental education in the evenings and on weekends. It says to me that something is wrong in the classroom.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:56:47 PM   
MissJanice2


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Status: offline 		This is the op here.   I never knew my rant would turn into this.  Go for it.
 
Respectfully,
 
Mistress_Jan
 


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 2:19:44 PM   
kittinSol


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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Because three hundred million people will never agree on what is American - nor should they have to.



That is not what I meant. I didn't mean an idealised American standard. I meant a general standard of education for all. It's not too hard to imagine - but then again, I believe in the power of the collective  .

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 2:30:53 PM   
cornflakegirl


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From: Arizona
Status: offline 		That would work if the standard was simple and demonstrable. Like, every high school graduate must be able to identify this list of countries on a blank map, fill out this sample job application and write a cover letter with it, set a hypothetical budget for a family, and balance a sample checkbook.

But the standards become these outlandish tangled webs of language that are barely comprehensible, much less a clear and practical list of goals for the education of children.

I don't know how to fix the system. I suspect local control and local standards, like down to the neighborhood level, would be the best way to go, but who knows?

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 2:33:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:


I agree but I have to wonder just what the hell they get up to all day that they need to come home after being in school from 8-3 five days a week and still need more formal schoolwork. We manage 3-4 days a week 3-5 hours a day and get done WAY more than he would be getting in school.


Not if you had 35-40 kids, though--and parents and administration to answer to.


True they can't get as much done or move as fast. It just seems crazy to me that they would have the kids for 7 hours a day 5 days a week and that the kids would still need significant supplemental education in the evenings and on weekends. It says to me that something is wrong in the classroom.


Far be it from me, a frequent critic, to defend the educational system. It deserves ample criticism.

I do have to say, though, that it's nowhere near as easy as you portray it. Spend a few days in a classroom. Your perspective will change. Nor is the day over when the children go home.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 2:48:14 PM   
cornflakegirl


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From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Far be it from me, a frequent critic, to defend the educational system. It deserves ample criticism.

I do have to say, though, that it's nowhere near as easy as you portray it. Spend a few days in a classroom. Your perspective will change. Nor is the day over when the children go home.


Where did I say it was easy? Education is not easy. I've spent quite a bit of time in the classroom volunteering and I have homeschooled for several years. I promise I am so aware of how NOT easy education is. ;) It's really hard and the people who manage to do it for other people's kids, my hat is off to them. However, I still question the purpose in a system that warehouses a child all day and then asks the parents to do as much work on the education front as they would be doing had they homeschooled their kid in the first place. I know some schools can get it done - I've seen it. We had to leave the area or my kid would probably still be in that school getting a seriously awesome education.

And I am running away from the computer to go do some of those educational things for a bit, and probably won't be back until tonight. :)

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 3:06:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		OK. Glad that's solved.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 7:35:33 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Glad that's solved.


Uh, ok.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 8:23:26 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

That is not what I meant. I didn't mean an idealised American standard. I meant a general standard of education for all. It's not too hard to imagine - but then again, I believe in the power of the collective .


I too believe in the power of the collective - which is why it scares the shit out of me sometimes.

As for a general standard of education: I have no problem with everyone learning Reading, Writing, and 'Rithmatic - beyond that I believe it should be as local as possible.


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/19/2009 12:25:57 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		A buddy sent his kid to a Jesuit school, one of the best in the country. Do you know what that means ? Just to stay in there they academic standards are so far beyond public schools it'l make your head spin. I saw the homework, they challenged the student's mind.

But schools like that are for the academically excellent only, and you can't buy your way in without huge sums of money, however if they warrant you worthy, you could get a free ride. Any guesses as to what this kid (of about 27) makes now ?

To take Chris Rock''s words - "If Johnny can't read it's mama's fault, but if Johnny can't read because there ain't no lights in the house, that's daddy's fault". In that statement he indicates that he, like I believe, that a two Parent household is the best environment. However how to reconcile that with homosexual couples and other factors, that is not my problem. But you have to get it done or you will have underachieving kids. That almost quote is from "Feel the Pain", which I consider one of his greater works. Some racist I am huh.

T

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