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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/17/2009 7:00:06 PM   
lonewolfdarider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

Then Allah will judge my deeds, and since i do not consider myself an enemy of Islam for i have not worshipped a deity contrary then i shall walk the narrow bridge over hell onto paradise



Allah is all mercaful and poweraful. I do believe in the Islamic faith. I am a muslim and has the faith that I will be in Allah's good gracres once I pass from this world. just know as long as you are a good human being Allah will never disown one of his children.

< Message edited by lonewolfdarider -- 8/17/2009 7:08:24 PM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/18/2009 7:41:11 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

No I am not stating about non belief being a belief or whether it isn't.  Please state where I did that.  I did say in one statement that sometimes that is said - in fact in the very post you are commenting in.  That will be shown later.


So....your not saying that? You don't agree with the positions you've been bringing up for multiple posts now? What is your position?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Perhaps I can make the difference a little more clear with a kind of silly comparison. Do you think that people are actually being anal probed by aliens? If you answer no, does that make you a fundamentalist?


I cannot answer that because I do not believe it - but I cannot discount it - since I have no prior knowldge of such events.  Not even delved into it.  So the answer is - I have no answer.  So I do not deal in such a fundementalist thought either way.


Wow........just wow, your actually calling everyone who has reached an informed conclusion that the testimonials of these people aren't credible a fundamentalist while at the same time admitting that your ignorant on the subject?


< Message edited by GotSteel -- 8/18/2009 7:43:26 PM >

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/19/2009 5:18:12 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
So....your not saying that? You don't agree with the positions you've been bringing up for multiple posts now? What is your position


Not telling?
.no.really.
On a more serious note, people who read the forums and debate with me pretty much learn and know my position.  I am not of the mind that one has to believe what they debate.  If you only ever debate from a place which you adhere to(or that plays a fundemental role in your life - geddit?), then the debate is always biased and ideas can never be changed and it becomes an arguement.  Besides, sometimes playing devils advocate and being the whole satan thing rocks.
Whilst I don't mind arguing for what I believe or believe in, I wouldn't argue on a forum with faceless names on the whole.  But I have in the past - for my sins.  I dont dig the perfection thang.

quote:

Wow........just wow,


So it's taken you what - four days to research and respond to a post - four days of being able to answer other posts (not that I expected a response and for you to come running, I just see the irony of it ) and all you can come up with is 'wow'?
.howdisappointing.

Oh and just so you know, I haven't the inclination to look at links.  I rarely do and find linking pointless unless it's to ones own words or when using as a quotation.  So if you are going to use 'insertwhateverhere' as an example - wouldn't bother on my account.  I would prefere you use your own words and write about them yourself, not use some distant article that holds no relevance to you on a personal level.  It's lazy not to make an effort in debate and wouldn't earn you marks on the team.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 8/19/2009 5:19:10 AM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/23/2009 11:07:46 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel:
Wow........just wow,


So it's taken you what - four days to research and respond to a post - four days of being able to answer other posts (not that I expected a response and for you to come running, I just see the irony of it ) and all you can come up with is 'wow'?
.howdisappointing.


No, I asked a question which you ignored. Don't you think that cutting me off part way through a sentence and claiming that what you quoted is all I came up with is rather dishonest?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Oh and just so you know, I haven't the inclination to look at links.  I rarely do and find linking pointless unless it's to ones own words or when using as a quotation.  So if you are going to use 'insertwhateverhere' as an example - wouldn't bother on my account.  I would prefere you use your own words and write about them yourself, not use some distant article that holds no relevance to you on a personal level.  It's lazy not to make an effort in debate and wouldn't earn you marks on the team.
 
the.dark.


How would you know if I'm being lazy or not, by your own admission you didn't check?  So, is asserting that links you haven't clicked on contain some distant article that holds no relevance to me dishonest or just lazy?

You've been acting this way for several posts now, is it really surprising that I have to get pretty bored to bother responding?

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/24/2009 1:55:28 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		the bible was written centuries ago by different men at different times throughout history.  interpretations and mindsets were completely different then, well, on the whole anyway.

i wonder how it would go if one of us had the opportunity to talk to God how our more liberal minds and wider world knowledge would translate his message.

in recent history we have had people who have spent their lives apparently under His guidance and have done nothing but good and brought a powerful message of humility, peace and love.

If we are to take the bible literally then adam and eve fucked up, not God.  but i dont tend to take it in its absolute literal terms because after all, men wrote it, not God.

we have also been given the choice to live well and honestly or take on our more baser nature and do harm, the choice is ours.

but in the end, what God gave us, apart from this incredible planet, were the ten commandments, a guideline on how to live our lives and that we adhere to today.  or we try to anyway.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 8/24/2009 1:59:51 AM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/24/2009 5:28:21 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
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Status: offline 		Bob Saget is God

http://www.bobsagetisgod.com/

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/25/2009 8:31:33 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i wonder how it would go if one of us had the opportunity to talk to God how our more liberal minds and wider world knowledge would translate his message.



That's not terribly hard to find out, just track down someone with temporal lobe epilepsy.

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 6:27:48 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

How could anyone have free will without the ability to choose that which goes against?


Free will is not a canonical concept.  Just as the doctrine of original sin or the trinity were man made inventions so is Free Will..  These 3 are not Jesus/gods idea but mans. Both Jesus & his papa would have collapsed if man did not usher in with fairy tail invention to support what biblical concepts they wanted their faith to contain.  An honest understanding of this rips all authority from christianity, very few like an honest bible based approach though.  Honestly it is obvious why.

Anywho:
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.
-Note I said decent not overwhelming or awesome.


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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 6:33:42 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i wonder how it would go if one of us had the opportunity to talk to God how our more liberal minds and wider world knowledge would translate his message.



That's not terribly hard to find out, just track down someone with temporal lobe epilepsy.



I already posted this in the define god thread.  I discussed in the context of neuroscience and psychology.  I gave numerous supporting articles, data from evolutionary psychology and linked 1 or 2 peer reviewed journals.  I guess keep linking it someone might give a shit one day.  We have so much peer reviewed information on this it is not really a disputed fact.  Not even amongst staunch theists - it is just one of the top 500 most ignored fact.

Anything which demonstrated their god is irrational is simply over looked - it is easier that way.

I am 80% confident no one commented on it in the "Define God" thread either.  Ignore facts and pimp faith.




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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 8:36:05 PM   
rightwinghippie


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Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		But free will is a theological concept. Each specific Denomination has its own Cannon.

If you believe in the "scientific view of the world" (particles and forces interacting according to fixed laws), how could it be anything but deterministic?

What sort of comment are you looking for with the temporal lobe issue. When you see something with your eye, it activates a part of your brain. If you damage that part of the brain, your vision goes haywire. It doesn't mean vision is fake. Just that all Human perception occurs in the nervous system, which seems rather self evident.


"Anything which demonstrated their god is irrational is simply over looked - it is easier that way."

Not really, you see you haven't even discussed my Concept of God. I doubt you have anyone here's. Yet you seem to think you have, which is rather interesting.


< Message edited by rightwinghippie -- 8/26/2009 8:40:34 PM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 9:27:41 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.

Tell that to the ghosts of Max Planck or Erwin Schroedinger. They will laugh at you like mad hyena's. Apparently you missed the discovery of quantum mechanics.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 9:36:26 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
I gave numerous supporting articles, data from evolutionary psychology and linked 1 or 2 peer reviewed journals.  I guess keep linking it someone might give a shit one day.

I am 80% confident no one commented on it in the "Define God" thread either.  Ignore facts and pimp faith.

This is a forum, not a college with a curriculum. Linking is lazy. I ain't interested in the errors and delusions of your purported experts. Present your own thoughts and your own arguments. If you present only links, it is easy to conclude that you have no own thoughts - and if you have none, why should anyone read your posts? That would be as useless as going to a library and starting a discussion with one of the inanimate books in the book rack.

(in reply to Esinn)
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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 9:51:15 PM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

No one has implied that there are no consequences of whatever choice is made. Free will might even take those consequences into account and choose to accept them.


Freewill is the ignorant christians invented to give a god a trump card to the violence of its creation..

This god is either::
A) A prick
B) Powerless
C) Evil
D) Non-existent

There simply are no other options.


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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 9:57:39 PM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

But free will is a theological concept. Each specific Denomination has its own Cannon.

If you believe in the "scientific view of the world" (particles and forces interacting according to fixed laws), how could it be anything but deterministic?

What sort of comment are you looking for with the temporal lobe issue. When you see something with your eye, it activates a part of your brain. If you damage that part of the brain, your vision goes haywire. It doesn't mean vision is fake. Just that all Human perception occurs in the nervous system, which seems rather self evident.


"Anything which demonstrated their god is irrational is simply over looked - it is easier that way."

Not really, you see you haven't even discussed my Concept of God. I doubt you have anyone here's. Yet you seem to think you have, which is rather interesting.


Hey pirate assclown....(LOL?)

I am either spanking your wife for you, as we discussed or linking the Define God thread(it is 30 + pages long - should be cake to find.)


God is a stupid concept.  That really is all there is to it.  It is not complicated.


< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/26/2009 9:58:32 PM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:00:29 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
I gave numerous supporting articles, data from evolutionary psychology and linked 1 or 2 peer reviewed journals.  I guess keep linking it someone might give a shit one day.

I am 80% confident no one commented on it in the "Define God" thread either.  Ignore facts and pimp faith.

This is a forum, not a college with a curriculum. Linking is lazy. I ain't interested in the errors and delusions of your purported experts. Present your own thoughts and your own arguments. If you present only links, it is easy to conclude that you have no own thoughts - and if you have none, why should anyone read your posts? That would be as useless as going to a library and starting a discussion with one of the inanimate books in the book rack.




I explained each link, ass hat.  I linked them to demonstrate I was not making it up.  It is not my fault you can not understand science.  Go take a college course.

If I would have not posted links I would have been called a liar.
Since I am posting links I am being challenged as an idiot.

If you want to discuss it start a relevant thread.


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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:02:21 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.

Tell that to the ghosts of Max Planck or Erwin Schroedinger. They will laugh at you like mad hyena's. Apparently you missed the discovery of quantum mechanics.



Are you name dropping theories and not explaining in your own words why determinism is false.

It is cute how you ripped my quote out of context.

The full quote which Rule ripped out of context is below.


< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/26/2009 10:07:59 PM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:06:20 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

How could anyone have free will without the ability to choose that which goes against?



Free will is not a canonical concept. Just as the doctrine of original sin or the trinity were man made inventions so is Free Will.. These 3 are not Jesus/gods idea but mans. Both Jesus & his papa would have collapsed if man did not usher in with fairy tail invention to support what biblical concepts they wanted their faith to contain. An honest understanding of this rips all authority from christianity, very few like an honest bible based approach though. Honestly it is obvious why.

Anywho:
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.
-Note I said decent not overwhelming or awesome.


_____________________________
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.

Tell that to the ghosts of Max Planck or Erwin Schroedinger. They will laugh at you like mad hyena's. Apparently you missed the discovery of quantum mechanics.



Are you name dropping theories and not explaining in your own words why determinism is false.

It is cute how you ripped my quote out of context.




Above ir Rules version of my quote.  Here is the entire discussion with my quote intact,

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

How could anyone have free will without the ability to choose that which goes against?


Free will is not a canonical concept.  Just as the doctrine of original sin or the trinity were man made inventions so is Free Will..  These 3 are not Jesus/gods idea but mans. Both Jesus & his papa would have collapsed if man did not usher in with fairy tail invention to support what biblical concepts they wanted their faith to contain.  An honest understanding of this rips all authority from christianity, very few like an honest bible based approach though.  Honestly it is obvious why.
quote:


Anywho:
There is plenty of decent evidence to demonstrate the universe is deterministic.
-Note I said decent not overwhelming or awesome.



You quoted 1/2 of what I said.  How dishonest is that?

I obviously do not believe in determinism
Seriously though
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< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/26/2009 10:07:14 PM >

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:17:19 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
What sort of comment are you looking for with the temporal lobe issue. When you see something with your eye, it activates a part of your brain. If you damage that part of the brain, your vision goes haywire. It doesn't mean vision is fake. Just that all Human perception occurs in the nervous system, which seems rather self evident.


I was pointing out that this kind of seizure commonly causes hallucinations either of god or that space invaders are invading ones private spaces. I'm not sure exactly what your trying to say, were you asking about my point, asserting that mental illness is proof of god or making some other point entirely?

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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:30:51 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolfdarider

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

Then Allah will judge my deeds, and since i do not consider myself an enemy of Islam for i have not worshipped a deity contrary then i shall walk the narrow bridge over hell onto paradise



Allah is all mercaful and poweraful. I do believe in the Islamic faith. I am a muslim and has the faith that I will be in Allah's good gracres once I pass from this world. just know as long as you are a good human being Allah will never disown one of his children.


Allah is stupider than Thoth.  However, Thoth did not justify Jihads.

+1 Thoth
-1 Allah

The battle of invisible conceptual beings moves on.


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RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/26/2009 10:35:47 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
What sort of comment are you looking for with the temporal lobe issue. When you see something with your eye, it activates a part of your brain. If you damage that part of the brain, your vision goes haywire. It doesn't mean vision is fake. Just that all Human perception occurs in the nervous system, which seems rather self evident.


I was pointing out that this kind of seizure commonly causes hallucinations either of god or that space invaders are invading ones private spaces. I'm not sure exactly what your trying to say, were you asking about my point, asserting that mental illness is proof of god or making some other point entirely?


http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/08/05/god-on-the-brain-at-penns-neuroscience-boot-camp/

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=503
http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=15753

Here a few more updated references than the ones discussed in the thread, "Define God"




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