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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 12:39:09 PM   
rideemwet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
Why don't guys act like they care when there is a breakup?


Its a defense mechanism.  Caring makes you vulnerable.  Some people *feel* more vulnerable to criticism for their emotions, and are accustom to suppressing the display of emotions.  This is especially true where mixed emotions are involved, such as in a break-up.  It can even be a defense mechanism against guilt, i.e., someone can act like they don't care because doing so implies they have some fault.

Some people are inclined to try to put things behind them (ignore the feelings) whereas others need to work their way through the emotional side of things.  I'd hazard a guess that there's some inclination by sex, but I think most people need a balance of both to get through things.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 12:53:30 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

...Yes everyone is different, but in my experience most women feel differently than I do about certain things, and about those same things I find most men I know have similar feeling to me. Yes there are exceptions, but I have an open mind and readily accept those differences when they occur, but this does not mean I disregard all of the other experience that demonstrates common emotional responses that are characteristic to each gender respectively...


this slave doesn't have any experience, like you have, personally relating to "common emotional responses characteristic to each gender" and is wary of anyone making such a claim.  you might possibly be able to know what YOUR experience is, but how do you extrapolate that out over the entire population of human beings?
 
perhaps that's why, as generalizations go, it makes no sense to her.
 
no wait, perhaps it's because she is a freak of nature.
 
damn redheads...they are all the same.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 1:29:01 PM   
interlocutor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

...Yes everyone is different, but in my experience most women feel differently than I do about certain things, and about those same things I find most men I know have similar feeling to me. Yes there are exceptions, but I have an open mind and readily accept those differences when they occur, but this does not mean I disregard all of the other experience that demonstrates common emotional responses that are characteristic to each gender respectively...

this slave doesn't have any experience, like you have, personally relating to "common emotional responses characteristic to each gender" and is wary of anyone making such a claim.  you might possibly be able to know what YOUR experience is, but how do you extrapolate that out over the entire population of human beings?


I know what my experience is and I know what the experience is of those who have shared theirs with me. To a lesser degree I understand the experience of those around me when I witness their experience. From my observations I draw conclusions. Every one does. If you didn't you could not function.

Personally I'm wary of anyone who claims it is an exercise in futility to try understand the differences between men and women.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 3:40:48 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

but it only helps you to know and makes sense with regards to what that particular guy is thinking...not A guy. guys aren't all the same just like women aren't all the same.

your original question seems to this slave like an exercise in futility---for example, not all women handle break-ups and feel their emotions the same as you do, so why would you think guys all feel their emotions and handle break-ups the same?


honestly, i've just become rather jaded through the years and i'm trying to open myself back up again... which means i have to completely question and rewrite many of my beliefs.  i made myself learn a long time ago not to expect a guy to really care, and i started to believe that they really and truly don't.  i just wanted some male viewpoints on the issue.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 3:42:28 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

Sure I may not be the same as every guy, I might not even be average. Just because every one doesn't act exactly the same doesn't mean that there aren't things in common. Knowing my reasons for the way I act might lend some insight into the way other men behave. Unless you are suggesting that I am a freak of nature completely dissimilar to every other man on the plant, how can understanding me a little better be harmful to her worldview? After all, she didn't say, "thanks, I now completely understand the human male."


   Exactly!! 

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 3:47:03 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

dont ya just love sheep types i mean come on just be you there are a ton of people out there who would love you for you I think we get wrapped up into bad circles and can not see beyond the hole we are in at times but I will tell you there are truely great people

It takes time
it takes work
you have to listen understand not everyone is 100 percent what you want or need
but every i mean every relationship you encounter diserves 100 percent attention to detail if not it will fail


I agree that every relationship deserves 100%.  I do devote the time, and attention, and work.  I just don't always do the right things while I'm doing it  :P  but ya know, live and learn. 

I really like what you said in your first paragraph.  I guess we all need to remember that we are more than our faults and insecurities... and give others the same courtesy when forming our own judgements.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 4:08:43 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: interlocutor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

...Yes everyone is different, but in my experience most women feel differently than I do about certain things, and about those same things I find most men I know have similar feeling to me. Yes there are exceptions, but I have an open mind and readily accept those differences when they occur, but this does not mean I disregard all of the other experience that demonstrates common emotional responses that are characteristic to each gender respectively...

this slave doesn't have any experience, like you have, personally relating to "common emotional responses characteristic to each gender" and is wary of anyone making such a claim.  you might possibly be able to know what YOUR experience is, but how do you extrapolate that out over the entire population of human beings?


I know what my experience is and I know what the experience is of those who have shared theirs with me. To a lesser degree I understand the experience of those around me when I witness their experience. From my observations I draw conclusions. Every one does. If you didn't you could not function.

Personally I'm wary of anyone who claims it is an exercise in futility to try understand the differences between men and women.


I see both of your points, but honestly I have to agree more with interlocutor on this.  Yes, every individual person is different - has different experiences, different reactions, different personalities, etc etc.  But I think that many accurate generalizations can in fact be made about each sex... and while it might not fit EVERY individual, it is common enough to assume it to be so until shown otherwise.  Example, most women are a bitch when they're PMSing.  Certainly not ALL women get bitchy at that time of month, but I do, my friends do, enough other women do that it can be considered a pretty common female trait that PMSing women = bitchy.  Maybe that's not the perfect example, but close enough.  It does help me to hear from men about their own thoughts and feelings, even if it is only a small piece of the puzzle.  I'm not a man, so I can't claim to have any clue what they are thinking and feeling... thus the reason for this thread. 

< Message edited by HarderToBreathe2 -- 8/13/2009 4:10:26 PM >

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 4:21:02 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I'm wary of anyone who claims it is an exercise in futility to try understand the differences between men and women.
A clear distinction between us. Personally I'd be wary and try to avoid people who come into any relationship with pre-determined expectations. This prejudice happens to be based on gender, but as an Italian should you meet me do you assume I'm in the Mafia or know how to lay concrete?

Prejudice, either against a nationality, gender or race, is never a reliable indicator of behavior. It doesn't matter if that prejudice is positive or negative. It is still something that has to be overcome, or lived up to. Both are hurdles to understanding any individual; who, by definition, is unique.

Your "experience" is individual. Anything they may have shared with you is specific to them and what they have chosen to disclose. Going into a mens room you can draw the "conclusion" that every man pees standing up. Yet - not every man does. Drawing "conclusions" from observations is no insurance any conclusion represents reality for an entire group of people, or gender, or the next person you meet and want to get to know.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/13/2009 5:00:59 PM >

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 4:48:16 PM   
leadership527


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You know, this somehow strikes me like the "how total is total" debate. Humans, inescapably, draw conclusions from their life history. There's really not much that can be done about that. So yeah, I have some high level pre-conceived about men, women, humans in general, monkeys, and rocket ships. Having been around the block once or twice though, I'm also pretty aware that my notions may be flawed. Heh, had anyone asked me 3 years ago, I would've been pretty sure that an M/s relationship was doomed to failure *laughs*. But still, taken with a grain of salt, my life experiences and the conclusions Ive drawn from them have served me well.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 5:16:12 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
...You know, this somehow strikes me like the "how total is total" debate...


really?  because it strikes this slave as being closer to the weal and twue debate.
 
as in...a weal man does ______________ after a break-up.
or
a twue man handles his emotions like ______________.
 
everyone else is just a poser/fake/wannabe, a rare exception to my own personally observed generalization...or a "woman".

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 5:22:01 PM   
KneelforAnne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

...  but ya know, live and learn. 



Then the question is:

What are you learning and how are you applying it?

_____________________________

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 5:41:34 PM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

Thanks Lilly, maybe you're right. 

Or maybe I just need to forgive myself for making what I feel was a horrible error, accept the consequences, and move on.  As for him... I've tried to the best of my ability to apologize, explain, and let him know that I cared and that I wasn't trying to hurt him, and that I never wanted it to end despite using that as a coping mechanism.  What more can I do?  He knows all this.  It's my loss, in a really big way, because he is a really cool guy.  :(


Bottom line: you played with his heart the way a cat plays with a mouse. I think you know you played a game and I think you are feeling very guilty about it. But you can't fix this particular situation. It's gone too far south. If someone played with you that way (dumped you and made you feel terrible, came back and claimed everything was fine he really liked you and wanted you back, then dumped you again, then came back again) you probably wouldn't want to have anything else to do with him, either. A person goes away from you in this sort of situation to avoid being jerked around even more.

The best way to forgive yourself for making a horrible error is to understand it hurts other people in a way you would not like to be hurt yourself and then resolve to never do it again. And then follow through, really never do it again. Even if other men hurt you, don't take it out on someone else who hasn't done anything bad to you. That's like kicking your dog because you had a bad day at work. The dog didn't cause the bad day and doesn't deserve to be punished.

You can't do anything more with this relationship. He sounds like he's learned to stay away from you and he clearly doesn't want to be hurt more. Let it go if you can, it's not that big of deal, we all hurt others upon occasion whether accidentally or on purpose, and I'm sure he's probably no saint and has done so too. It's a mistake to continue to dwell on it or feel bad. So you screwed up? Well, we all do! Just resolve not to do this to the next nice person who comes your way. You're relatively young, there will be plenty more, and some of them will even be nice. :)

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 6:04:14 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

Bottom line: you played with his heart the way a cat plays with a mouse. I think you know you played a game and I think you are feeling very guilty about it. But you can't fix this particular situation. It's gone too far south. If someone played with you that way (dumped you and made you feel terrible, came back and claimed everything was fine he really liked you and wanted you back, then dumped you again, then came back again) you probably wouldn't want to have anything else to do with him, either. A person goes away from you in this sort of situation to avoid being jerked around even more.

The best way to forgive yourself for making a horrible error is to understand it hurts other people in a way you would not like to be hurt yourself and then resolve to never do it again. And then follow through, really never do it again. Even if other men hurt you, don't take it out on someone else who hasn't done anything bad to you. That's like kicking your dog because you had a bad day at work. The dog didn't cause the bad day and doesn't deserve to be punished.

You can't do anything more with this relationship. He sounds like he's learned to stay away from you and he clearly doesn't want to be hurt more. Let it go if you can, it's not that big of deal, we all hurt others upon occasion whether accidentally or on purpose, and I'm sure he's probably no saint and has done so too. It's a mistake to continue to dwell on it or feel bad. So you screwed up? Well, we all do! Just resolve not to do this to the next nice person who comes your way. You're relatively young, there will be plenty more, and some of them will even be nice. :)


Thanks so much for your assessment!!  You're right, it's just so sad though, ya know?  I don't like to cause hurt to people that I care about.  What's even sadder is that I know where my heart is, and yet it doesn't seem to make any difference at this point.  But it's understandable.  I can see how he would be trying to avoid further hurt.  And honestly, I can see how he would be highly suspicious of me, and I have sent a million mixed messages... so he really may not even believe that my intentions were not to jerk him around.  Sigh.  But you're right about not continuing to dwell on it.  (thought it's been very difficult to stop   )

Another thing is the fact that it was long-distance, neither of us are very financially stable at the moment, and we both live with our parents.... which would make it really hard for us to get together very often.  So maybe subconsciously that is why I did what I did (in part), because I was growing to care about him so very much, and he'd mentioned a couple of times how difficult it would be to make a relationship work under these low-$, long-distance circumstances.  But we were going to give it a try anyways.

Sorry, I'll quit blabbing now, getting off the subject  :P

Edited to add:

Sometimes I read back what I've written and find that it sounds kind of detached and uncaring, with all the exclamation points and the smilies. 

I was going to add a P.S.....
Something else that is sad is that I know I've learned my lesson from this, in a really big way, and I know I could and would do better -- but he will never find that out, and we'll never get to see what could have been.  I understand why there will not be another chance.  I just think it's sad, that's all. 

< Message edited by HarderToBreathe2 -- 8/13/2009 6:11:59 PM >

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 6:05:29 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelforAnne

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

...  but ya know, live and learn. 



Then the question is:

What are you learning and how are you applying it?


I'm still looking for the post where I said this to see what I said right before it... lol... will get back to ya when I find it

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 7:08:58 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelforAnne

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

...  but ya know, live and learn. 



Then the question is:

What are you learning and how are you applying it?


THERE it is, found it right on this very page.  :P

Let's see if I can put this into any sort of coherent paragraph.  I think that most importantly, I have realized how selfish and careless and hurtful my actions towards him were, no matter what the reasoning behind them may have been. I placed my own need to self-protect as more important than him or his feelings.  Furthermore, I can't expect to be able to explain things away and just continue on as if what I did doesn't affect his trust.  A mistake may be forgiven once, but not when the same mistake is made repeatedly.  My actions do have the power to hurt people, and it's arrogant and self-centered to think that the words I say afterwards could completely erase the damage done. 

I've also realized some things that I really need and want to change about myself.  I need to say only what I mean, and I need to do what I say I'm going to do, or else my word means NOTHING.  This is huge, actually.  I need to work on developing some integrity, just by paying attention and holding myself accountable. 

Also I've learned (I feel like a kindergartener here, lol... jk, I'm actually really glad you asked this question) that my own emotional health and stability attracts the same.  If I have a negative outlook, if I'm untrusting and untrustworthy, I'm only going to attract the shitheads.  I need to hold myself to the same standards that I wish to receive from others. 

I have to give someone a chance and not give into my urges to sabotage things.  I need to learn how to cope with those moments of anxiety/fear when they arise, the moments when I feel that ending the relationship myself is easier than the alternative... the alternative being, to continue to care about him and therefore remain vulnerable to his power to hurt me.  I've gotta find another coping method in order to relax, instead of acting impulsively only to immediately regret it, and then expecting him to cater to my issues. 

I need to learn better communication skills somehow, haven't quite figured that one out yet though.  It's hard to find the balance between communicating and being open vs. not blurting out your every thought at the beginning of a relationship.

Which brings to mind something else I've learned, though not something I've really talked about on here.  When things go bad, I need to shut the hell up, lol.  What I am referring to is the way I always try to "fix" things and explain everything to him, and it's SO hard for me to just back off and give things space and the time to cool down.  But I make things so much worse by going on this frenzy of trying to communicate with the guy.  Although, to be fair, it really can drive you nuts when someone completely quits talking to you... makes you drive yourself crazy wondering what they're thinking.  I know that surely it isn't just me that has a hard time with this one, lol.  Nothing sucks worse than the silent treatment, and it can really trigger one's fears of abandonment if one has issues with that (which many of us do, I would suspect).  Just like with the breaking up thing, this is a fear/anxiety reaction, the urge to try to fix things.  Need to find a way to just be quiet and allow things to settle.

I also believe now that guys really do get hurt, they just don't like to show it (typically).  I probably already intellectually knew this, but when I don't see or feel the emotions from them, it's easy to believe that none exist.

As for how I am applying these lessons, I don't guess I've really had the chance yet to do so.  This guy won't talk to me, obviously, and I've apologized many times with as much sincerity as I could express within a one-sided email (since he wouldn't let me say anything to him personally).  As a whole, I'm going to quit "man-bashing" though, both out loud and internally.  Based on the guys I've talked to through this thread, I can see that there really are some great guys out there.  I just have to be the best person I can be, and when a good one comes along, treat his kindness with respect and care.  I wish I had been able to do these things with this last guy... : (  but sigh, I do have to let that one go since there is nothing more I can do.   

    

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 7:26:08 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

HardertoBreathe2 said:
Also I've learned (I feel like a kindergartener here, lol... jk, I'm actually really glad you asked this question) that my own emotional health and stability attracts the same. If I have a negative outlook, if I'm untrusting and untrustworthy, I'm only going to attract the shitheads. I need to hold myself to the same standards that I wish to receive from others.
This is definitely words of wisdom. So often I try to say to people that attracting a mate is easy... all you need to do is envision the person you are hoping to find. Then envision what that person wants. Then BE that. And one of the things which healthy, well-adjusted adults want is other healthy, well-adjusted adults.

quote:

HardertoBreathe2 said:
Which brings to mind something else I've learned, though not something I've really talked about on here. When things go bad, I need to shut the hell up, lol. What I am referring to is the way I always try to "fix" things and explain everything to him, and it's SO hard for me to just back off and give things space and the time to cool down.
Take some solace in that pretty much everyone I know finds this really hard. For me, I try to remind myself that my goal here is to make things better and sometimes the best way to make things better is to SHUT THE HELL UP! *laughs*. If necessary, I'll remove myself from the situation.. take a walk, whatever. But sometimes it's the other person's move and you just need to take your fingers off your own pieces while they do it.

Honestly, that entire post was one of the most fearlessly introspective posts I've read here on Collarme. If I was looking, that post would be enough to make me want to know more... even given all the various failings an issues expressed therein. It was, in fact, a similar self-assessment on Carol's part that hooked me when we first met. For whatever it's worth, if you manage to apply the lessons here, you will absolutely have my undying respect. I may never know that, but you will. More to the point, I would expect you'd reap a rich karmic reward from such growth.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 7:33:57 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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quote:

Take some solace in that pretty much everyone I know finds this really hard. For me, I try to remind myself that my goal here is to make things better and sometimes the best way to make things better is to SHUT THE HELL UP! *laughs*. If necessary, I'll remove myself from the situation.. take a walk, whatever. But sometimes it's the other person's move and you just need to take your fingers off your own pieces while they do it.


I'm glad to know it's not just me who has difficulty with this!  That does help.

quote:

Honestly, that entire post was one of the most fearlessly introspective posts I've read here on Collarme. If I was looking, that post would be enough to make me want to know more... even given all the various failings an issues expressed therein. It was, in fact, a similar self-assessment on Carol's part that hooked me when we first met. For whatever it's worth, if you manage to apply the lessons here, you will absolutely have my undying respect. I may never know that, but you will. More to the point, I would expect you'd reap a rich karmic reward from such growth. 


This really really means a lot to me Jeff, and thank you so much for saying it. 

Maybe there is hope for me yet.   

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 7:39:39 PM   
HarderToBreathe2


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And oh yeah, and now if you could just talk to this guy for me and give him your honest assessment of the situation as a whole and of me, you might could help save things for the two of us....      

just kidding <wink>

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 7:56:19 PM   
KneelforAnne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

I have to give someone a chance and not give into my urges to sabotage things.  I need to learn how to cope with those moments of anxiety/fear when they arise, the moments when I feel that ending the relationship myself is easier than the alternative... the alternative being, to continue to care about him and therefore remain vulnerable to his power to hurt me.  I've gotta find another coping method in order to relax, instead of acting impulsively only to immediately regret it, and then expecting him to cater to my issues.

...I need to shut the hell up, lol.  What I am referring to is the way I always try to "fix" things and explain everything to him, and it's SO hard for me to just back off and give things space and the time ....
 

I know that I have to work on these.  These things get me EVERY DAMN TIME.  Honestly, the underlines parts could be written by me. 

Except in the past, I didn't run away, or break up with them... I just refused to let my heart or emotions get involved.  I, personally, just shut them down. (Them being the emotions, though in a way that could have shut the men down.)

~

The reason I asked you, in an earlier post, if you would still want them if they professed undying love (and if you believed them) is because I never knew if I would.  To some extent,  I still don't. 

Not that there's a game involved, not the "chase" at all.  Please don't think that. 

More (perhaps?) a self esteem issue of not REALLY believing I could inspire that type of real emotion.

I dunno, I need to take some time and think about this more to get to the bottom of it. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

I wish I had been able to do these things with this last guy... : (  but sigh, I do have to let that one go since there is nothing more I can do.   


You know... it may not bring him back, but it may help him to understand you a bit better....

Why don't you send him the link to this thread and ask him to read it ALL.  Emphasize ALL. 

He may or may not read it... that's a risk you take... but...?  Honestly, a bunch of strangers (some stranger than others :D ) know this stuff about you now...shouldn't he?


To end, I'm really glad you started this thread.

Good luck!

**Edited to clarify**

< Message edited by KneelforAnne -- 8/13/2009 8:03:07 PM >


_____________________________

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/13/2009 8:27:49 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

I'm not sure if we're following each other, lol.  I guess a more clear way of asking what I meant to ask is.... Why don't guys act like they care when there is a breakup?  Because they really don't care, or because they're so accustomed to hiding their emotions?  Or something different?


Just because men may hide thier feelings, doesn't mean they don't have the same as women. Sometimes they hurt more than you can imagine.

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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