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When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 7:51:05 AM   
lapis


Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline 		Master is in charge. Master gives the final word on decisions. i understand and agreed to this 5 years ago.

my question to those here. Is is acceptable for a Master to go back on a promise? Is Master above keeping promises? little promises like a promise to fix the truck. or a big promise like to sepnd more time on us.
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 7:52:42 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		yep... He gets to 'change His mind'.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 7:54:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Many masters do not make promises (other than commitment to being a master) because a promise means "until I change my mind."

It's acceptable for anyone to break their word or change their mind on anything. They simply have to accept the consequences for changing their mind. It's nice to SAY that as a slave you simply accept it and move on, but deep change, or a loss of trust is not so easy to move on from. If you are feeling hurt by something, you should discuss it and work through it together.

If a promise was given, with the intentions and mutually understood expectations that said promise would be followed, and they were not- then yes there's a problem that needs to be worked through.

However, if a promise was given, with the intentions and mutually understood expectations that said promise might not be followed, then obviously you know that the promise was really a "unless I say otherwise" and should not build expectations.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 7:58:55 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

yep... He gets to 'change His mind'.


I disagree...

How are you to gain trust in one you put your life in trust to... if he can't keep a simple promise.
We all go through as kids.. promises being broken by parental units and others.. remembering the hurt and pain from promises being broken.... how can it not hurt when the one we trust our lives with.... breaks any promises.

Now it does depend on promises being broken i'm sure.... things come up and things planned may have to be back dated... .. truck needs fixed for transportation ... Get the damn truck fixed.......spending more time together.... sounds like feelings of neglect... and not good there either.

But all in all... no being Dom, Master, Owner... broken promises... broken dreams.. broken submissives/slaves... not good either..

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/24/2006 7:59:34 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:00:22 AM   
DestinyCommander


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		If someone makes a promise, they have to keep it. Anything less is cowardly, being a Master over someone does not make an exception. If one doesn't intend to keep a promise, one simply doesn't make a promise. To do otherwise damages trust.

Now, if a promise was made but CANNOT be kept due to unforseen circumstances, that is different.

But keep in mind, it must really have been a promise. Simply to have said you'll do something is not a promise.

_____________________________

"You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get ME up pretty early in the morning." -- Ian Shoales

(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:04:46 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

yep... He gets to 'change His mind'.


I disagree...

How are you to gain trust in one you put your life in trust to... if he can't keep a simple promise.
We all go through as kids.. promises being broken by parental units and others.. remembering the hurt and pain from promises being broken.... how can it not hurt when the one we trust our lives with.... breaks any promises.

Now it does depend on promises being broken i'm sure.... things come up and things planned may have to be back dated... .. truck needs fixed for transportation ... Get the damn truck fixed.......spending more time together.... sounds like feelings of neglect... and not good there either.

But all in all... no being Dom, Master, Owner... broken promises... broken dreams.. broken submissives/slaves... not good either..


well said true... what i said was said 'tongue in cheek'. That's what i heard everytime the 'x' lied, broke a promise or cheated... "He changed His mind"... and being a slave... any feelings of hurt had to be stuffed deep inside. i eventually stuffed him!

Honestly tho i agree with LA here... discuss it openly with Him, express how the broken promises make you feel, in a respectful manner. Any Master worth His 'salt' will listen. You still might not like the answer, but at least you can feel comfortable knowing you tried.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:09:12 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

yep... He gets to 'change His mind'.


I disagree...



This is quite an interesting question, made more interesting by the BDSM dynamic.

In the nilla world, broken promises are met with anything from, at one extereme, lawsuits to, at the other, apathy. In the BDSM realm, a promise from a Master to a slave might have no meaning at all, depending on their relationship definition.

Does a slave have the right to expect anything of his/her Master? Does that expecation change the fundamental nature of the Master/slave dynamic?

My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises". It would be as breaking a promise to your dog or cat. The one mitigatin factor might be if the slave's ownership were negotiated in such a way as to explicitly define a right to "kept promises."

As for this particular situation, only you can decide what is "right." If you feel his broken promises are too much for you, leave. If you don't want to leave, then be a good slave and shut up about them... Bitching to him will not get you what you want. He is what he is...submit or walk away.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:15:59 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Yes a Master has a right to change his mind on previous decisions. If he does that enough times, however, he will find himself losing credibility with the slave, and she/he may not take him seriously at his word anymore. That could create damage in the relationship, as M/s is based on absolute trust.

my Master changed his mind on a "promise" once. It distressed me, and i was allowed to talk to him about it. He understood my concerns, but his revised decision remained. He was generous enough to explain to me why he changed his mind, but did not owe me that. The explanation did help me to understand him and why he did what he did and i could accept it and stop making issue about it.

For the most part, he is not in the habit of making promises. i know that what he decides today is what he feels is best, but that could change as our relationship evolves. i trust him. If he changes his mind about something, i do not argue it as i am slave and He is Master. i am allowed, however, to talk about things that worry me.

"Promises" can vary from "I will not "out" you in your community" to "I will do the dishes on Tuesday so you can rest."

As for your concern about him spending more time with you...i firmly believe it is a slave's role to make the Master's life easier. Master decides how much time he wishes to spend with slave. slave is grateful for any time spent. Master determines how much time is necessary to spend. If slave feels slighted, she can voice that, but must accept Master's ultimate word.

~ 2 cents in the bucket ~


< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 2/24/2006 8:31:15 AM >

(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:22:04 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		i believe this is one of the many reasons why getting to know someone well before making any permanent agreement is critical. People can't help being who they are, given enough time. This dynamic of whether a Master has the right to change His mind after making a promise is something that needs to be discussed prior to the commitment. i'm finding agreements in all areas, not just fetishes, need to be very clearly communicated before the promise to obey is in place. Learning if this person is respectful of me as well as expecting respect is an important dynamic for me.

i am a submissive, not a doormat.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:25:04 AM   
DestinyCommander


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises".


I would agree with that if "ownership of property" was the arrangement. Because then no promises are really being made.


_____________________________

"You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get ME up pretty early in the morning." -- Ian Shoales

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:26:26 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

yep... He gets to 'change His mind'.


I disagree...



This is quite an interesting question, made more interesting by the BDSM dynamic.

In the nilla world, broken promises are met with anything from, at one extereme, lawsuits to, at the other, apathy. In the BDSM realm, a promise from a Master to a slave might have no meaning at all, depending on their relationship definition.

Does a slave have the right to expect anything of his/her Master? Does that expecation change the fundamental nature of the Master/slave dynamic?

My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises". It would be as breaking a promise to your dog or cat. The one mitigatin factor might be if the slave's ownership were negotiated in such a way as to explicitly define a right to "kept promises."

As for this particular situation, only you can decide what is "right." If you feel his broken promises are too much for you, leave. If you don't want to leave, then be a good slave and shut up about them... Bitching to him will not get you what you want. He is what he is...submit or walk away.

Taggard


Taggard, how can You truly believe that a slave is like a car or cat/dog? we are humans, living, breathing, thinking with emotions and feelings. Now i might be able to understand Your way of thinking if one was say, brain dead and in a coma. Yes, i may be 'property' to One, but i cannot stop thinking, feeling, breathing, etc. Just my own curiosity...

edited to add: And yes i absolutely have the right to expect Him not to seriously injure, maim or kill me. (That's my right as a human being first) (ok back to Yyour regularly scheduled programming)

< Message edited by angelic -- 2/24/2006 8:30:37 AM >

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:28:43 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		My parents would never, ever promise us kids anything. They would say things like, “we will try” “if we can we will” “You can do that unless something changes” I think that is a great way to raise kids and it’s a good way for a Master to behave. A promise is so absolute and in life we don’t get absolutes. People do the best they can and if something changes there needs to be an out or at least new negotiations.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to Submotive)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:31:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
Taggard, how can You truly believe that a slave is like a car or cat/dog? we are humans, living, breathing, thinking with emotions and feelings. Now i might be able to understand Your way of thinking if one was say, brain dead and in a coma. Yes, i may be 'property' to One, but i cannot stop thinking, feeling, breathing, etc. Just my own curiosity...

In my previous relationship, it was understood that there were no promises- not even of permanent ownership.

Now, that doesn't mean my feelings weren't hurt and that he didn't say sorry occasionally. He had a habit of letting me know when/where he was going out of town for business and forgot once and so we had no contact for a week and I didn't know what was going on. I did get upset over that and he did apologize for it. So while we both understood that his actions affect me and what is necessary to have a stable life together, we both understood he hadn't done anything WRONG, or against his commitment to me.

Again, what matters is making sure everyone is one the same page.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:32:05 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty



This is quite an interesting question, made more interesting by the BDSM dynamic.

In the nilla world, broken promises are met with anything from, at one extereme, lawsuits to, at the other, apathy. In the BDSM realm, a promise from a Master to a slave might have no meaning at all, depending on their relationship definition.

Does a slave have the right to expect anything of his/her Master? Does that expecation change the fundamental nature of the Master/slave dynamic?

My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises". It would be as breaking a promise to your dog or cat. The one mitigatin factor might be if the slave's ownership were negotiated in such a way as to explicitly define a right to "kept promises."

As for this particular situation, only you can decide what is "right." If you feel his broken promises are too much for you, leave. If you don't want to leave, then be a good slave and shut up about them... Bitching to him will not get you what you want. He is what he is...submit or walk away.

Taggard


Taggard... I do so much love reading your postings... they remind me there are so many out there.. that have no feelings.. no cares at all for the ones they call their "property".

I am not condemming you for your thoughts and ideas of the way you live your life. They work for you.. and that's what matters.

What works for some.. so do not for others...

Broken promises are like lies..and when there are lies.. there's broken trust... and trouble brewing.

Now as I stated.. there are some reasons for broken promises... "I have to work... Check not as big as it should of been.... etc...etc..... depending on the promise... but just because.. I changed my mind... it's bullshit. One would be best to simply say... Not making no promises.. but will give it my best... that way when ones best.. is stepped on .. due to unseen circumstances... it's not a broken promise.... it's a simple case of.. shit happens.

As a submissive... and or slave.. it's easier to accept that shit happens... than to be lied to.... with the lame comment of.. "I changed my mind."

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:32:34 AM   
lapis


Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline 		thank you truesub

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:33:36 AM   
lapis


Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander


But keep in mind, it must really have been a promise. Simply to have said you'll do something is not a promise.


then what is it?

(in reply to DestinyCommander)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:35:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		True....good points, but the question is, should a Master be making promises in the first place? Other than the promise to keep the slave in good health and good care in exchange for service, etc... it seems foolhardy for One to make those "little" promises which are always subject to change anyway, no?


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:35:32 AM   
lapis


Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

This is quite an interesting question, made more interesting by the BDSM dynamic.

In the nilla world, broken promises are met with anything from, at one extereme, lawsuits to, at the other, apathy. In the BDSM realm, a promise from a Master to a slave might have no meaning at all, depending on their relationship definition.

Does a slave have the right to expect anything of his/her Master? Does that expecation change the fundamental nature of the Master/slave dynamic?

My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises". It would be as breaking a promise to your dog or cat. The one mitigatin factor might be if the slave's ownership were negotiated in such a way as to explicitly define a right to "kept promises."

As for this particular situation, only you can decide what is "right." If you feel his broken promises are too much for you, leave. If you don't want to leave, then be a good slave and shut up about them... Bitching to him will not get you what you want. He is what he is...submit or walk away.

Taggard


Regardless if slave is property isnt breaking a promise wrong? Or is Master never wrong?

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:38:39 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lapis


quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander


But keep in mind, it must really have been a promise. Simply to have said you'll do something is not a promise.


then what is it?



It is an intention.

(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 8:41:53 AM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for saying, in a much more elegant way, exactly what i was thinking...


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 20
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