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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 8:06:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Would you describe Gorean as a "genre"? It has its own message board here. It is, I guess, a distinct style. So too is Code d' Odalisque. A distinct lifestyle. Obviously, in practice, people bend styles or genres to suit the realities of human complexity. But there are still distinct styles. Gorean is one. Code d' Odalisque is one.


Let's see, how can I best phrase this...

No.

Jazz and Classical are "genres." Flat picking and clawhammer are "styles." You have "cool shit we thought up" -- and there's nothing wrong with that -- but it has nothing to do with Gorean (other than the role playing fantasy folk on Second Life, who have nothing to do with Gorean "lifestyle" either, or the chat room crowd that lives for playing the protocol game).

An ethos, a searching into ourselves, an exploration of our nature--that's hardly a "style." A common approach to life based on observations about the order of nature, our own natures, and what happens when we deny them or live in accord with them in order to continually grow--hardly a style. A searching critique of our society's role in subjugated our natures, and a philosophy based on living in a better, happier, healthier manner...I wouldn't even call that "lifestyle" in the sense that it's applied to BDSM. Yes, Gorean men take female slaves, but it's not the role playing game you've delineated for yourself, but rather people living their natures.

Don't get me wrong--play concubine, consort, odalisque, geisha, or rape of the sabine women for all I or anyone else may care. Codify it if it pleases you, and enjoy. Don't be surprised if people think you're strange for pretending you've just nailed 95 theses to the cathedral door.

But this has nothing at all to do with Gorean thought or practice. Yes, someone always tries to come alone and codify that too--and they aren't taken seriously either. Look at what just happened with someone's attempt to construct a Gorean framework on that board.

There are enough misconceptions about Goreans already--that it's living according to fiction, that it's like Scientology, that it's like a religious cult, that it's sadism or abuse, or any of the other nonsense people invent out of ignorance to describe people living basically normal lives in basically normal ways.

Go your own way, and leave us out of your campaign.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/21/2009 8:19:49 AM >

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 8:28:44 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		In a Rare form today I will be speaking on part of the Target and not adding to the folley of the banter.

First as I read the Op it is something that is not mentioned on these boards offten. I found it refreshing and even more so because I had never heard of the practice before and found it odd that a Japanese Social Custom had a French Name, but I'll let all that go.

It is interesting to me the different ways things can be done in this lifestyle. What has been discussed here Actually does fall under BDSM if you take Disipline to mean personal self discipline, however beyond that there is nothing beyond the possibility that you might Tie them up that would constitute BDSM.

I find it refreshing that there are other ways of doing things. There have been times I was not always interested in the Sadism of BDSM and there were times I was not interested in anything more than just a girl who defered her every action to me.

Yes I like the S&M part that doesn't mean that there aren't people who don't.

I will actually be looking up this subject as I am interested in learning more about it.

That being said about the only thing that does not appeal to me is the fact that it tends to focus only on the sexual abilities of the girl and on little else. It seems like it discusses proper attitude but the main focus is on the girl as a concubine.

Not my Kink but there is nothing wrong with it.

Steel

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 8:34:06 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Funny thing about this post is that Odalisques weren't even sexual slaves.  They were assistants to the concubines in the seraglio (Imperial Harem) in the Ottoman Empire.  Sort of like "chamber maids".  An Odalisque might become a concubine eventually, but then she wouldn't be an Odalisque anymore.

Unfortunate name aside, it's just keeping female slaves in a "harem girl" like fashion.  That's how I prefer to keep female slaves too, though the protocols that I employ are somewhat different, I'm sure.  There isn't any place for "pain for pleasure" at my house either.  Pain is pain, and to be avoided.  When whipping/switching/spanking goes on, it's because a girl has been less than pleasing or obedient.  When bondage goes on, it's because I want the girl restrained, or her movement restricted, or for her to be deprived of certain senses so that she has to rely on others to perceive what's being done to her.

I don't see anything wrong with folks wanting to revive the notion of keeping harem girls and coming up with some shared protocols if they want to.  The only real use for shared protocol though is to facilitate the sharing or transfer of slaves, so that they don't have to be re-trained for every owner, or for every man they serve.  Does some of this go on among "Coders"?  If not it starts to smack of a "paint by numbers" recipe for keeping a slave.  That seems like it would only be attractive for someone who lacks desires of their own or the imagination to put those desires into practice.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/21/2009 8:35:41 AM >

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 8:57:43 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
The only real use for shared protocol though is to facilitate the sharing or transfer of slaves, so that they don't have to be re-trained for every owner, or for every man they serve.

Don't you just hate it when you purchase a new slave and all they know how to do is ride a bicycle that fucks them as they go along, damn you House of Gord you said she could cook!

I mean transferable skills in the job market


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 9:05:39 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Don't you just hate it when you purchase a new slave and all they know how to do is ride a bicycle that fucks them as they go along, damn you House of Gord you said she could cook!



I do, mostly because I'm rather possessive about my bicycle.


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 9:07:03 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I believe you are mistaken to assume that most bdsm'rs are locked into pain play.  Many I know are not masochists or sadists, instead they enjoy the soft play which this (and btw this has been discussed on CM before) "code" promotes.

So.. no pain, no work, just sex.  Sounds a LOT like what people ask for when they want to be kept.  Nice job if you can get it.  You would never have to work, lift a finger to help out, just sit or lay back and be a hole.  If there is enough money to handle that I don't see an issue.  However, the idea that this is another way, is ludicrous.  Many people don't engage in the sado-maso design.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9

That's right - if you are into pain then Code d' Odalisque wouldn't be for you. But there are of course plenty of folks in the wider BDSM community who are not into pain as such but still enjoy bondage, cxaptivuty, submission etc, all themes explored in Code d' Odalisque. Even so, the idea is adaptable. But it offers another genre of Master/s;ave lifestyles which i think is good. Diversity.


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 9:54:13 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

grunge?

::::puzzled::::

No lumberjack shirts.


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 10:18:18 AM   
roughleather


Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline 		The concept is interesting, but perhaps overthought. It's like those elaborate "slave contracts" nobody actually uses. The "nude all the time" thing gets tiresome for both parties.

Sexual domination, without sadism, has its charms. 

(Oh, and get a real web hosting service. It's cheap. The free one you're using is down.)

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 11:48:37 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe it's just me but I find little appealing about a woman whose sole purpose is to satisfy me in bed.  Then I would need another woman outside the bedroom who wanted to do all the other things that please me...be a pain slut, be into serving me in non-sexual, non-BDSM ways, likes to engage in conversation of a non-sexual nature.  Of course, all of this behavior then tends to lead to her wanting to be used sexually...and me wanting to use her sexually...and then that leaves me tired for the one whose sole purpose is to make my bedroom life satisfying and then what would I do with her?

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 1:14:22 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		The young lady that is attempting to convince me she should be mine.....was written an email telling her she should be an Odalisque.

Never mind that her profile explains very clearly that she hasn't any interest in anything other than reading and the occasional, pleasant email. Being the uneducated woman that she is, she had no idea what odalisque meant, and asked me, while showing me the email. I explained it to her and then she said "why would I want to do that?!?!?" with a shocked look on her face.

As a slave she loves to be useful, to serve in whatever way makes my life easier. As a masochist, she loves to be hurt, humiliated, used harshly. It turns her on. She likes the idea, that IF I decide we are right for one another, she will contribute to the household in all ways.

To spend all day, sitting around, watching me do all the work, going to work, coming home tired and cranky, doing everything I do at home, and be told to just sit and wait for me to get in the mood...........that would drive her crazy. She simply couldn't stand it. She is a slave through and through. To be used in whatever way I see fit, I need, I want, that is her dream.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/21/2009 1:15:56 PM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 1:51:51 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Generally I think what the same I thought 2 months ago when this came up. Do we REALLY need yet another word to describe what is truly a very simple thing? Here, let me codify my relationship...

The dominant bosses the submissive around and the submissive obeys.

All in all though, I suppose if some guy wanted a "cock slave" and some woman wanted to be one, then this'd work out perfectly. I'd hardly call it a lifestyle though -- more like the bedroom corner of BDSM in my eyes. Honestly it' unclear to me what the difference between an odalisque and a bottom is.

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 1:54:35 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well, an odalisque slave would stand very still, as if she were a tall, monolithic, 4-sided stone monument.....

....oh.....wait......that's obelisk.....

Never mind.


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 1:55:29 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		I think it's important to note here that these notions are taken from the Imperial Harem of vast empire. These women served men of vast wealth and power. They were one of many many women who did so. If they were high ranking concubines they had "Odalisques" that waited on them. Not to mention an army of guards, cooks, etc.

In the Ottoman harems, an "Odalisque" who was particularly beautiful or talented in some way might be chosen to be trained for service as a concubine, then, she would be brought to the Sultan's bed. Once. You've got that right. Once. She would have to impress the hell out of him in some way to get a return trip. Even more so to move up in rank and possibly become a favored girl of his.

So, yeah, in that environment, there were women who were trained for one thing and one thing only, their "big night" with the "big cheeze". If you happen to be extremely wealthy, and not in a position where the discovery that you keep a harem would threaten that, hey, go for it if it floats your boat. Most men aren't, though, and so the notion of a highly rarified sexual servant who does nothing else is a little unrealistic.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/21/2009 2:00:56 PM >

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 2:09:17 PM   
DePubed


Posts: 71
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		My own recollection is that the "young, slim, and beautiful" were in the harem, and they were kept as the 'menu' for the Master's pleasure-use for him to select from time to time for sexual use;
then, when they aged and he no longer found them attractive, they would be transferred into the other harem of the female worker-slaves:to work as  cooks, tailors, sewing seamstresses,  baby-sitters for the hundred of kids that the Master had, etc.
So the 'pleasure slave' was a time-limited job!
The only way to escape the fate of aging into a worker slave was to get pregnant and bear the Master a son/male heir.
If you accomplished that, then you were preserved from labor since you were the mother of a  future potential master.


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 2:11:45 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, an odalisque slave would stand very still, as if she were a tall, monolithic, 4-sided stone monument.....

....oh.....wait......that's obelisk.....

Never mind.




Cue 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'

Cut!!!!! Prin!!!!


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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 2:47:54 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		My first thought was, do we really need yet another slivered subdivision of BDSM types to add to the bewildering and overlapping list of titles and names.
But I suppose it can be helpful to define a certain style of relationship, so as to let people seek each other out, the way that "High Protocol Babygirl Latex Fetish Painsluts" can find compatible partners without having to weed through those seeking "High Protocol Babygirl Leather Fetish Painsluts".

The difficulty as always is deriving enjoyment from our respective desires without elevating our personal kink above others.



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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 3:01:40 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Give me work. Give me chores. GIVE ME THINGS TO DO DAMNIT!

If I was in the position of one of these Odalisque (let us assume that I would meet the requirements)

I would be bored out of my freaking skull. I would give myself a lobotomy if it came down to it.

Why must one shove things in a little tiny box? All of these concepts and words cannot fit into these boxes.

Give me Sex too... that would be nice.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 3:03:09 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Well, you wouldn't get the sex straight away, but I could promise you that if you were in My location, I'd be happy to beat you as well as put you to work.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 3:18:28 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Well, you wouldn't get the sex straight away, but I could promise you that if you were in My location, I'd be happy to beat you as well as put you to work.


Hell, that just sounds like My last job.
Do you offer a 401(k)?

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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/21/2009 3:32:11 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Well, you wouldn't get the sex straight away, but I could promise you that if you were in My location, I'd be happy to beat you as well as put you to work.


*laughs maniacally*

It would be my pleasure good Lady Pact.

IF I was in your location.

Seems to be a theme in Business and BDSM. Location, Location, Location.

And attitude.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

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