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Obey - 8/31/2009 7:01:53 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:07:33 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Carol and I practice my own personal iterpretation of TPE. Within that construct, there is no "disobedience". There is only "obey" or "not mine". Frankly, I think that is true independent of whether she approves of the commands or not. Carol is a deeply monogamous woman, but if I commanded her to pleasure another person, I would expect her to do it. Failure would be the end of her slave collar. Such is the nature of "total" in my book.

However, in my interpretation, the world of D/s is a lot less clear cut. There I can see negotiations, both large and small, occuring on a potentially frequent basis depending on what worked best for the couple. But as soon as boundaries are allowed at all, then they must be discussed and maintained.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:15:48 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
An unhappy Domme is an unhappy Pyroaquatic.
A happy Domme is a happy Pyroaquatic.


This is not a difficult concept.... I do not see how one can confuse this. Obedience does not have to be a mindless drone thing either.

"Psshaw.... okay"
*scoots off*


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:21:01 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		There really isn't a such thing as partial, delayed, or rerouted obedience. Either one does what another required or they don't. It's pretty black and white. That being said, I think the number of truly detestible commands given should be kept to a minimum and serve some greater purpose than just a power trip. Okay, so sometimes it can be a power trip, but I digress. Honestly, hard or unsavory demands are a great loyalty and trust builder, but in general, if it does not really do much to benefit the submissive, dominant, or the relationship as a whole, there is not enough positive reinforcement to make it worthwhile. Pleasing my partner is certainly a great incentive, but that can't be my only motivation all the time and especially in difficult circumstances. My partner currently has me eating three times a day. It is hard and it feels like a total waste of my time, but he and I both know it is for my own good and that I wasn't hitting the mark without it being an order. I get to please him in doing this and my energy and over all health might get a boost too. That's a good trade off for the difficulty.

I will step back just a bit and say sometimes there can be incomplete obedience, but there'd better be a darn good reason for it. When I was still learning about my partner, I would stop at certain points in obeying because I was not sure of a preference or details. I only did so when they seemed like he would find them important enough to be bothered if I just randomly chose and chose wrong. I would wait to ask about those things and proceed accordingly. In my mind, I also saw it as me doing what he asked MY way instead of the path he wanted me to take. I didn't hold off doing what I could. To me, that was not acceptable and I knew he felt the same. I also did not try to obey halfheartedly by just skipping over parts that were difficult or unclear. This was me doing the best I knew to do in the situation. He helped me find more effective ways of coping in such situations in the future, but most of the time I no longer have any confusion like I did early on. If I did, I know how he wants me to handle it. Time is a big help in this area.

As long as I know what I am to obey and how to proceed, I should hope my partner never finds me doing anything other than obeying. I would disappoint him and I would disappoint myself. It seems simple enough to me.

lovingpet

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:24:26 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I simply expect him to obey. There is a foundation laid and after that, he knows how I decide things and there is no question about an order, request or something to be discused. No drama... just do it. I don't like repeating myself. He either trusts me or he doesn't and I won't play naughty games. His choice, do it or have a darn good reason why not or find someone who doesn't care and let's her expectations be ignored.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:27:56 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		If he tells me to do something, I do everything in my power to do it.
Simple as that.
I've learned the basics of what he expects on a regular basis just because we are physically together more. Those are expected and now unspoken as we spend more and more time together. He has happily become my daily focus. To not obey would be very upsetting to me.

_____________________________



(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:30:45 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.


This is pretty much how it works with us; only, Sir told me the very first time we met, “You always have the ability to say no, you just might not like the consequence”. (Oh, how I adore that man!)
 
Kim


_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:34:52 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.



I have a very strong hunch we are pretty much on the same page.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:44:05 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		From my point of view "obedience" in a ds relationship isn't always so cut and dried.

Ok, so you've (generic) discussed hard limits, illegal acts, immoral acts, you think you're pretty much compatible on those fronts, therefore there should be no reason for disobedience.  It all looks so good on paper, but it really doesn't always pan out perfectly in the long-term.

I've been in situations where I couldn't (wouldn't ?) obey.  It was a horrible feeling like I was being torn between what he wanted, and what I discovered were "boundaries" for myself that I absolutely could not cross.  Sometimes no matter how much you discuss or how well you plan, things come up that you didn't previously consider.  It's a relationship, it's evolving, both dom and sub are learning about themselves, hopefully stretching limits, possibley finding others that they didn't know existed.  Maybe the dom pushed too far, maybe the sub had a flashback of something, maybe this and maybe that, both parties learned something. If each party gives the other a little bit of slack, while solid in the trust that neither is trying to shirk their responsibility or commitment to the relationship, then there is some room for the occasional faulter.   Complete obedience, to me, is a concept, something to strive for,  the optimal situation even, but it never turns out to be a perfect absolute 100% of the time, not that I've seen anyway.  

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:46:49 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.



it is very simple for me. a directive is given. i may be permitted to comment and share my opinion. but in the end i chose to yield. i sit at the person's feet because i want to serve and he desires that from me. if the premise behind that implies i must enjoy the act or have liberty to turn my obedience on and off at whim, i see little purpose in being there. i understand other dynamics exist, but i find joy in being compliant. i cannot comprehend willful disobedience.

porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:52:25 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		If I obey an order and it goes badly (not talking jail or some such), then I see the dominant as having to shoulder the outcome. If I flashback, panic, become ill (not like acquiring an infection), etc, he now has the auspicious task of bringing me back from that. I am expected to do my part, of course, but I would not be in that situation if I had not obeyed an order I was expected to obey. Finding a boundary is one thing. I like the idea another poster uses (forgive me, I don't remember who), I don't have limits because he knows my limitations. Fine, so we found a new boundary. I didn't just refuse. I tried my best to obey and that is all that can be asked. Now he knows what he has to work with in that area. It may not be what we thought it was, but it is no longer and unknown, so it is easier to address. I don't see failing at a task as the same as disobedience.

lovingpet

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:53:30 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.



I have a very strong hunch we are pretty much on the same page.


I like it when we save each other typing time! 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 7:55:24 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		It is hot. Regardless. Carry on ladies. Rule meh wurld

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:00:50 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Pyro,

I have to ask, WHAT is that in your hand?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:01:49 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		Feel the same way and strangely I never have had a sub refuse a command. Couple times there was a mild difficulty, but in the end--all have obeyed. I think this is probably one of my strengths that I expect obedience, make little fuss over it and always get it.

Several years ago one of my neighbors remarked on how all the kids in the neighborhood obeyed me immediately, her own included. I said "why do you think that is?" and she said, "You have a note of authority in your voice" I just looked at her because she seemed to think that "note" was some god-given gift that she couldn't learn.

A lot of parents in America seem to have that notion. On the "Nanny" show here, Nanny is always getting parents to practice their parent voices. I had to laugh when my youngest said to me after watching a mom try to drag her child down our front steps after a long long talk: "I think I learned a lesson today--never parent by negotiation."

I loved it!

I am not sure why dom/mes have balking subs, maybe it is connected with taking on the bratty types? Maybe some find it a bit cute to "play with punishments" for minor disobedience and then realize later they accidentally set up a pattern of rewarding for disobedience? If a sub fails to obey me, after promising to do so, the sky falls in on them. Severe corrections over disobedience, punishment fitting crime, tends to reinforce the idea that obedience is not to be taken lightly.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:07:42 PM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline 		This is a beautiful encapsulation, Marie....   it really does come down to trust, on both sides.

Sometimes obeying against your first impulse turns out to be glorious thing (or at least a happy/satisfied one)...  but on rare occasions (i doubt LadyPact had these exceptions in mind, but still, it's true) it goes beyond simple disinclination to something potentially destructive.  I have trouble sometimes knowing whether to obey first and explain later, or explain first and risk being seen as disobedient in such circumstances. 



_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:13:51 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		For all of those inquiring minds (and keeping within the theme of obedience).....

it is a plano-convex magnifying lens on top of a reflective hard drive disc.... which creates a makeshift parabolic mirror.
I am reflecting myself in my web-cam software.

Ahhh.... introspection. It seems time to change my photo.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:14:37 PM   
TearsofLove92


Posts: 37
Joined: 8/6/2009
Status: offline 		Much like Leadership527, if I tell somebody that is collared by me to do something and they don't, that's the end of the road for them.

Hard limits not included of course, and I am always sure to be in clear understanding of what they are.

(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:24:09 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Obey yes...but if you do something that is not enjoyed or respected often enough ...then you can expect to loose your submissive.

Your job is to find things you can both enjoy or the submissive can at least respect. A D/s relationship has the same problems as any relationship and problems must be worked out to the agreement of both or the relationship will not last.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:32:49 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Your job is to find things you can both enjoy or the submissive can at least respect.

This is an argument for a relationship built on topping from the bottom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

A D/s relationship has the same problems as any relationship and problems must be worked out to the agreement of both or the relationship will not last.

And this is a tautology. The missing point being, however, that a D/s or M/s relationship is built on the s-type's obedience and their willing desire to make obedience their primary focus.

If the D-type has proposed a task that is not outside the limit boundaries of the relationship, the onus is on the s-type to uphold the expected parameters.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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