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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 2:45:16 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Also, relevant to someone's later post, CE does not stand for Christian Era, it stands for Common Era and BCE is Before the Common Era, assuming I am remembering this information from nearly 20 years ago (Still not the 18th century) when I took my first Philosophy class.
Davan

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Christian+Era?db=luna

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 6:47:42 AM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

If you think AD is a measure of time since the birth of Jesus you are sorely mistaken.

Oh Good Lo... well I will not use His "Name" in vain ;-)

IT IS EXACTLY WAHT IT MEANS, ESPECIALLY IN COLONIAL AMERICA!!!

There is an above link to dictionary.com.. here is how they define AD:

"Because anno Domini means “in the year of the Lord,” its abbreviation a.d. was originally placed before rather than after a date: The Roman conquest of Britain began in a.d. 43 (or began a.d. 43). In edited writing, it is still usually placed before the date. But, by analogy with the position of b.c. “before Christ,” which always appears after a date (Caesar was assassinated in 44 b.c.), a.d. is also frequently found after the date in all types of writing, including historical works: The Roman emperor Claudius I lived from 10 b.c. to 54 a.d. Despite its literal meaning, a.d. is also used to designate centuries, being placed after the specified century: the second century a.d"

Christ Ken, the answer is Jesus Christ who is "Lord" and Savior to mankind and thus, lead to the measure of time to be before and after His coming.

"

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 7:55:56 AM

DomKen

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No. You are mistaken. If Jesus existed he was not born in 1AD or 1 BC. Anyone who claims otherwise is wrong.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 8:06:09 AM

mnottertail

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going by the old julian calender (45 bc as reckoned by the GREGORIAN CALENDAR), Yesh'us ha' Notzri would have been born in around 6 b.c. the julian calendar (named for Julius Caesar) was the first attempt to fix the fuckups in sidereal time, due to the fact that there are actually some 364.24xxxxx (I cant remember this shit) days in a year on earth. by the time of the gregorian calendar (1582) the julian calendar was already out of round by about 15 days.

As it turns out, the earth is slowing its orbit some partial seconds a year around the sun, so perhaps by the second coming of christ, we will have a fucking chunk of paper that works so that we can ignore paying our bills on time in a more accurate way. But none of this makes a christian nation.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 8:13:48 AM

chiaThePet

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For the love of God people.

Everyone here at the collarme Gates of Hell knows full well that A.D. stands for After Domiguy.

chia* (the pet)

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 8:38:52 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

"Despite its literal meaning, a.d. is also used to designate centuries, being placed after the specified century: the second century a.d"

.......hmmmm, it may appear that, by the nefarious act of actually reading what you typed, there is a hole in your thesis. May i draw your attention to the words 'despite' and 'also'. Feel free to look those up at dictionary.com too.

All you've really done here is prove that there is not one but two definitions for the acronym AD. Pretty much everything else we have from the Founding Father supports the latter definition......a way of designating centuries. Not an act of faith.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 9:59:41 AM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet
For the love of God people.
Everyone here at the collarme Gates of Hell knows full well that A.D. stands for After Domiguy.
chia* (the pet)

Amen, Chia, Amen! :>
Davan
(Who was going to say RIP Domiguy but then based on what we've been discussing, perhaps we can look forward to a Zombie DomiGuy?)

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:11:45 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Oh Good Lo... well I will not use His "Name" in vain ;-)

One more little comment... "Lord" is not a -name-, it is a TITLE for crimeny's sakes.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:20:15 AM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Also, relevant to someone's later post, CE does not stand for Christian Era, it stands for Common Era and BCE is Before the Common Era, assuming I am remembering this information from nearly 20 years ago (Still not the 18th century) when I took my first Philosophy class.
Davan

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Christian+Era?db=luna

Hi, PoliteSub53----
I am not sure if you are meaning to prove or disprove what I said. Your reference heads off with 'Christian Era' but if you reference later on the page is says something akin to "See: Common Era".
If you want to be secular BCE and CE are the ways to go.
And, yes, to those who are arguing the nuances of years, the whole birth and death of Jesus (Assuming such a guy existed) is all FUBAR in terms of time and calendars but I can not believe that people are actually arguing that the adoption of Christianity by the "Holy Roman Emperor" didn't inextricably (To this point...one can dream for some point in the future) join Christianity in a very important way to Western Culture. And, thus, the re-writing and over-writing of so-many things commenced in earnest.
People are arguing against nuances that simply are Christian in lean; it's not unreasonable that a culture dominated by a particular religion has evidence of said religion all over the place that people take for granted but for people to argue that Christianity does not still pervade American culture is baffling.
Do kids get off of school for Saturnalia? No, but schools are certainly closed for Christmas. That's just one example.
And, I don't believe that the 'vestiges' such as the use of AD are innocuous if someone is desiring to be secular; we have to think of where what we're using is coming from and if there is something that serves us better.
I argue in favor of true separation of church and state because I do not believe that someone else's religion (Or even my own, if I had one) should dictate societal laws but to live that assertion rather than simply to make it, I must behave accordingly, and in this instance, it's pointing out the subtle bias of Christianity that still remains in things that many very intelligent people simply accept as meaningless...and, of course, not behaving in ways as to feed into the remaining religiousity (Let alone the overt stuff) when I can reasonably avoid doing so.
Davan

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:45:06 AM

puella

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I would love to know how Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson would answer your question. :)

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:47:43 AM

mnottertail

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well, puella, we know that ben franklin was a dirty old man that would probably not bothered with the question, but would have given his right nut to have one off with you.

Tom, now..... Don't know so much about if he'd'a done ya, but I should think so.

They were not your godly sort of fellers.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:48:54 AM

Eigenaar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I keep hearing the far Christian right talking about how Freedom, Democracy and America are Christian concepts.

On http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/ one finds this:

''The people of the Six Nations, also known by the French term Iroquois Confederacy, call themselves the Hau de no sau nee (ho dee noe sho nee) meaning People Building a Long House. Located in the northeastern region of North America, originally the Six Nations was five and included the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, and Senecas. The sixth nation, the Tuscaroras, migrated into Iroquois country in the early eighteenth century. Together these peoples comprise the oldest living participatory democracy on earth. Their story, and governance truly based on the consent of the governed, contains a great deal of life-promoting intelligence for those of us not familiar with this area of American history. The original United States representative democracy, fashioned by such central authors as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, drew much inspiration from this confederacy of nations.'' The Mormons by the way believe the native Americans are Jews and it is said Columbus his voyage is financed with Jewish money, though it is obvious the mentioned concepts Freedom and Democracy are Jewish nor Islamic.

< Message edited by Eigenaar -- 9/13/2009 10:53:16 AM >

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 11:14:15 AM

Politesub53

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Davan, I originally pointed out that CE "Sometimes" stood for Christian Era, since it is found in several dictionaries, I think you are incorrect to say I am wrong. No big deal I am just making the point.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 11:26:23 AM

Brain

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After I read the articles below I had a much better understanding of the behavior of the Christian right in America with respect to their political actions. Now what they are doing makes much more sense to me based on what this man said about American Christianity from his own personal experience. It appears they answer to a higher Authority which is God.

Unfortunately, after I read this I was shocked and dismayed that these people think they are protecting their children from Satan. It starts it appears when they brainwash their children with religion.

“If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.

What are these home school and Christian school children taught? Here's a quote from one of the far right's leading home school curricula creators:
"The political question is this: By what biblical standard is the pagan to be granted the right to bring political sanctions against God's people? We recognize that unbelievers are not to vote in Church elections. Why should they be allowed to vote in civil elections in a covenanted Christian nation? Which judicial standards will they impose? By what other standard than the Bible?"
(Gary North of Institute For Christian Economics)

The generation raised on the belief that the US government is illegitimate because it is trying to "impose" non-biblical laws on people has hit the streets. These are the people who grew up indoctrinated into an alternative reality. Today they are out there waving signs of Obama dressed as Hitler. They are buying weapons and ammunition. Some are in the growing and revived militia movement. They are Dick Armey's foot soldiers. People like Armey and Beck can count on the ignorance of their dupes. It's against their religion to read a real newspaper, watch anything but Fox or go to a real school. “

I really don’t think you can reason with these people they are literally crazy for God so when comedian Bill Maher says that the Democrats need to get in touch with their inner asshole once again he is 100% right. I hope people read the full article because it is a real eye-opener.

Glenn Beck and The 9/12 Marchers: Subversives From Within
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/glenn-beck-and-the-912-ma_b_284387.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I am honestly confused on this issue. I keep hearing the far Christian right talking about how Freedom, Democracy and America are Christian concepts. But in the bible, I can't find any mention of any of that. In the old testament, God not only supported kings but appointed them. Never did I read of him appointing so much as a school board. In the new testament, Jesus supported secular authority in secular matters, saying "Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's and unto God that which is God's" (A clear and simple dividing line between church and state).

So is there any scriptural basis for this idea that Christianity has some place in our political life? Or is it just a matter of the old "Christians formed America, therefore it belongs to us" logic. Of course, if the idea that "If someone made something it is their's" is valid, most houses in this country are owned by illegal aliens. But that's neither here nor there.

So can ANYONE tell me if there is scriptural backing for the Christian political arm?

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 12:01:44 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Davan, I originally pointed out that CE "Sometimes" stood for Christian Era, since it is found in several dictionaries, I think you are incorrect to say I am wrong. No big deal I am just making the point.

If you would take a moment to re-read my reply, Politesub53, please quote for me where I said that you are wrong. Many thanks,
Davan

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 12:06:04 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.

Odd. This is assuming that all children schooled at home are done so by religious means. I would love to see statistics on your assumption, Brain.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 3:02:46 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.

Odd. This is assuming that all children schooled at home are done so by religious means. I would love to see statistics on your assumption, Brain.

almost 3/4 according to research from 2003
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 3:17:27 PM

Slavehandsome

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You can date America becoming a "Christian" country, back to all of the Presidents up to this current administration swearing their oath of office on the Bible, or you could date it back to the 1950s when someone added In God We Trust onto the coins, or you could date it back to 1892 when the Pledge Of Allegiance was written, or you could date it back to 1776 based on references in the Declaration of Independence, or you could date it back to the Pilgrims who sought to flee the tyranny of Catholicism and its political arms. At what point did you never consider the U.S. to be a Christian nation?

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 3:44:37 PM

DomKen

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All Presidents did not swear their oaths of office on a bible. The Pledge of Allegiance as written in 1892 contains no religious symbolism of any kind.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 4:25:53 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

You can date America becoming a "Christian" country, back to all of the Presidents up to this current administration swearing their oath of office on the Bible, or you could date it back to the 1950s when someone added In God We Trust onto the coins, or you could date it back to 1892 when the Pledge Of Allegiance was written, or you could date it back to 1776 based on references in the Declaration of Independence, or you could date it back to the Pilgrims who sought to flee the tyranny of Catholicism and its political arms. At what point did you never consider the U.S. to be a Christian nation? ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Having been raised as a Jew and evolved into an Atheist, I NEVER regarded America as a Christian country. If, however, it is a country in which, for any reasons, Christians have more rights, standing or say in our country than I do by virtue of their religion, I want a tax break based on the "pay for what you get." theory.

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