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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 5:10:22 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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So I am guess you'll say Before Christ doesn't mean that either

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 5:49:20 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

So I am guess you'll say Before Christ doesn't mean that either

That's what BC means but it isn't correct that the historical Jesus, if he existed, was born in 1AD or 1BC. But you're still fixated on the numbering system in common use at teh time. Were Jews who signed documents including dates written as 'year of our lord' Christians?

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 9:37:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.


Odd. This is assuming that all children schooled at home are done so by religious means. I would love to see statistics on your assumption, Brain.

almost 3/4 according to research from 2003
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp



Amazing what you didnt show.

Concern about environment of other schools2
Applicable... 935,000 85.4
Most Important....341,000 31.2
Dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools
Applicable....748,000 68.2
Most Important...180,000 16.5
To provide religious or moral instruction
Applicable.... 793,000 72.3
Most important....327,000 29.8

According to the report, families could list more than one reason for homeschooling. Now, the fact that these kids are extremely bright should be adequate proof of how messed up and evil they are being trained to be.

Around the time of Columbine, many homeschool associations experienced a spike in enrollment... parents didnt believe their kids would be safe enough. The trend continues, but now for different reasons, many citing its because they dont like how their children will be influenced at school.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:07:30 PM   
HatesParisHilton


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"Having been raised as a Jew and evolved into an Atheist, I NEVER regarded America as a Christian country"

well, no, why would you?  to do so is to admit that in the (historically SHORT) lifespan of the nation known as the USA, you were never "included" despite pol-correct pseudo-inclusionist claptrap.

As in Berkely Bullshit and Santa Cruz Shite.  (by the way, I am an anti "Conservative" and resent localities that wrap themselves up in "Liberal" flags like Berk and SC.  And I've lived in both cities so I am free to bitch about them).

For you to even begin to accept in any way that the United States of America (which btw, RE the "re-devised" American Culture as being primarily Protestant/Anglo and discounts the political weight of the French and Spanish Crowns, the Sovereigns that ruled Lousiana and New Mexico and California), means you have to accept that culturally, it is only RECENTLY that Jews have been accepted into places like Country Clubs at all. People were blacklisted as lately as the 50 from certain jobs for merely being HALF Jewish.

Atheists?

Oh fucking PLEASE, man.  C'mon.  You think if you were living in Kentucky in the '70's (as a friend of mine did), and either of your parents admitted to ONE gossipy motherfucker that you, or your Mum, or your Dad, was even AGNOSTIC - much less atheist - that the KK would not have burned a cross on YOUR lawn?

As they did to my pal because her Mum was Jewish and her Dad was a "Papist"?

what "America" are you talking about?  One that only existed post Watergate and only in regions like fucking Haight Ashbury???

BC versus AD versus CE means SHIT ALL, folks.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 10:44:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.


Odd. This is assuming that all children schooled at home are done so by religious means. I would love to see statistics on your assumption, Brain.

almost 3/4 according to research from 2003
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp



Amazing what you didnt show.

Concern about environment of other schools2
Applicable... 935,000 85.4
Most Important....341,000 31.2
Dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools
Applicable....748,000 68.2
Most Important...180,000 16.5
To provide religious or moral instruction
Applicable.... 793,000 72.3
Most important....327,000 29.8

According to the report, families could list more than one reason for homeschooling. Now, the fact that these kids are extremely bright should be adequate proof of how messed up and evil they are being trained to be.

Around the time of Columbine, many homeschool associations experienced a spike in enrollment... parents didnt believe their kids would be safe enough. The trend continues, but now for different reasons, many citing its because they dont like how their children will be influenced at school.

How does that change the fact that 73% listed religious reasons as a reason to home school their children. I will also point out that almost 30% gave religious instruction as the primary reason. Furthermore the only way these numbers work out is if the overwhelming majority of parents who chose school environment as a reason also chose religious instruction. Therefore it is fair to surmise that school environment means exposure to secular culture for at least some of those repsondants and that that group makes up a noticeable percentage who listed school environment as their #1 reason. I will also point out that the group who answered both school environment and religious instruction also chose dissatisfaction with academic instruction which for many of those was certainly dissatisfaction with teaching evolution and sex ed.

So the facts are clear the data shows that for the vast majority of homeschooled in 2003 religious instruction was an important part of their reasons. It is further clear that the other data shows that taking all other factors into account it may be the underlying reason for most.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: So when did America become a "Christian" ... - 9/13/2009 11:30:13 PM   
knees2you


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quote:

I am honestly confused on this issue. I keep hearing the far Christian right talking about how Freedom, Democracy and America are Christian concepts. But in the bible, I can't find any mention of any of that. In the old testament, God not only supported kings but appointed them. Never did I read of him appointing so much as a school board. In the new testament, Jesus supported secular authority in secular matters, saying "Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's and unto God that which is God's" (A clear and simple dividing line between church and state).

So is there any scriptural basis for this idea that Christianity has some place in our political life? Or is it just a matter of the old "Christians formed America, therefore it belongs to us" logic. Of course, if the idea that "If someone made something it is their's" is valid, most houses in this country are owned by illegal aliens. But that's neither here nor there.

So can ANYONE tell me if there is scriptural backing for the Christian political arm?

 
"It is, what it is!"
 
quote:

"Regardless of what God wanted, Man was going to go his own way! And so the Prophecy will be fullfilled!"

 
"Every Step you are taking, you are History in the Making!"
 
God, Bless~ knees2you.


< Message edited by knees2you -- 9/13/2009 11:34:24 PM >

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/13/2009 11:33:19 PM   
HatesParisHilton


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so again, lets's adress the thread title:

we have a rulership of deists that came after a plague of Calvinists with a sprinkling of Jews and a lot of unrequited Catholics.

NO ATHEISTS founding even ONE territory, much less any "state"

a country, if it HAS states, is defined BY it's states.

Therefore the question is not "So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country "
 
the question is HAS IT NOT BEEN SOME RELIGIOUSLY-BASED AND DEFINED confederacy of cultural"gangs"?
 
And let's not bash yankeeland here alone either.  I don't see ANY real countries with any true influence or effect on the world.

And for me,"no effect"means "non existant".

_____________________________

I am (now) "Hiltie", hear me ROARRRRR! And have a cuffy cake, they're nice.

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 5:23:24 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you wonder who it is that's both running and underwriting organizations such as the Family Research Council, Focus On The Family, Freedom Works and other organizers of the 9/12 March and who are the most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.


Odd. This is assuming that all children schooled at home are done so by religious means. I would love to see statistics on your assumption, Brain.

almost 3/4 according to research from 2003
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp



Amazing what you didnt show.

Concern about environment of other schools2
Applicable... 935,000 85.4
Most Important....341,000 31.2
Dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools
Applicable....748,000 68.2
Most Important...180,000 16.5
To provide religious or moral instruction
Applicable.... 793,000 72.3
Most important....327,000 29.8

According to the report, families could list more than one reason for homeschooling. Now, the fact that these kids are extremely bright should be adequate proof of how messed up and evil they are being trained to be.

Around the time of Columbine, many homeschool associations experienced a spike in enrollment... parents didnt believe their kids would be safe enough. The trend continues, but now for different reasons, many citing its because they dont like how their children will be influenced at school.

How does that change the fact that 73% listed religious reasons as a reason to home school their children. I will also point out that almost 30% gave religious instruction as the primary reason. Furthermore the only way these numbers work out is if the overwhelming majority of parents who chose school environment as a reason also chose religious instruction. Therefore it is fair to surmise that school environment means exposure to secular culture for at least some of those repsondants and that that group makes up a noticeable percentage who listed school environment as their #1 reason. I will also point out that the group who answered both school environment and religious instruction also chose dissatisfaction with academic instruction which for many of those was certainly dissatisfaction with teaching evolution and sex ed.

So the facts are clear the data shows that for the vast majority of homeschooled in 2003 religious instruction was an important part of their reasons. It is further clear that the other data shows that taking all other factors into account it may be the underlying reason for most.


Yet, oddly enough, the primary reason isnt religion.

quote:

In a quest to find answers I surveyed over 1000 homeschooling families from the United States and Canada. Their responses to my question “What is the top reason you pulled your child out of school, or decided not to send your child to school?” were many. I received over 300 different answers in total, and the most popular are outlined below.

-Lack of individual instruction. Much to my surprise religion was not the number one reason parents choose to homeschool. The overall number one reason the parents I surveyed made the decision to homeschool was the “failure” of government schools, and private schools alike, to provide individualized instruction. Many parents felt their children were being cheated in the traditional school system, and they feel they can provide the better education their children deserve. In most schools individual attention from teachers is less than six minutes per day, total.

-Religious Reasons - The majority of respondents who gave religion as their primary reason for home educating stated that they were conservative Christians. Many conservative Christian families do not believe that a government school can properly teach their children the values and lessons they wish to learn, and they wish to incorporate Biblical training in all aspects of their children’s education. Interestingly, I also heard from families of many other beliefs (Muslim, Buddhist, & Wiccan to name a few) who stated religion as their top reason for homeschooling.


Content copyright © 2009 by Meg Grooms

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art8093.asp

Reasons both parents and children gave for homeschooling.....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070406212055AAGojbh

To label homeschooling as being primarily for religion is false and misleading.

There are many reasons why parents choose to homeschool their children. According to a 2001 Clearing House article by Michael Romanowski entitled “Common Arguments about the Strengths and Limitations of Homeschooling,” homeschooling families can be broken down into two basic categories.

First there are the ideologues, who educate their children at home because they rebel against conventional schools and want to strengthen their relationships with their children. Romanowski theorizes that, typically, the ideologues choose this form of schooling on the grounds of religion. They feel that they can provide a better spiritual environment for their children than any other school system, placing more emphasis on moral, ethical, and spiritual development.

Pedagogues, the second type of homeschoolers, are more concerned with the value of their children’s education, believing that they can provide a better education for their children than any other type of schooling. They have little faith in the abilities of public school teachers, so they take matters into their own hands. Lines cites a 1995-96 survey, saying that forty-two percent of families who participated in the study listed “dissatisfaction with the public school instructional program” as their primary reason for homeschooling.



Read more: http://homeschooling.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_history_of_homeschooling#ixzz0R5BPPIQR

So while you try to paint homeschooling as some religous movement out to destroy the world... it is in fact a group of parents who want better for their children then what public schools offer

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 7:00:59 AM   
UncleNasty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'll take some whacks at the spot the horse once laid upon just to keep in practice.

The christian far right may talk about democracy, freedom etc. but that is not what their leaders and intellectuals believe in. The movement is called Christian Reconstructionism or Dominionism and it is about converting the US, and the rest of the world, into an old testament based theocracy with themselves in charge. The movements roots lie in an organization called the Chalcedon Foundation and its founder R. J. Rushdoony. The leading thinkers of the movement are primarily associated with D. James Kennedy and the various churches and organizations he founded, Kennedy is also notable as a cosigner of the 'Land Letter' which some believe is the basis for his claim that God wanted him to invade Iraq. The money behind the movement, beyond of course the gullible mailing in their checks to the televangelists, is Howard Ahmanson Jr. heir to a banking fortune and major financial supporter of the Chalcedon Foundation, Discovery Institute (the movements Intelligent Design face), extreme right wing politicians and numerous fringe groups and more mainstream conservative religious organizations.

Take any so called 'christian' conservative of any prominence and check out his background and you'll find he worked for one of these men or one of their close associates or at a foundation they supported/founded.


Highlighted text is too funny.

The rest of the post I can't vouch for accuracy but I think it does indicate those mentioned individuals have a much less than pure agenda.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 4:49:39 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

For you to even begin to accept in any way that the United States of America (which btw, RE the "re-devised" American Culture as being primarily Protestant/Anglo and discounts the political weight of the French and Spanish Crowns, the Sovereigns that ruled Lousiana and New Mexico and California), means you have to accept that culturally, it is only RECENTLY that Jews have been accepted into places like Country Clubs at all. People were blacklisted as lately as the 50 from certain jobs for merely being HALF Jewish. ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton



I love this country enough to think that we have gotten better. No longer do we legally consider African Americans 3/5ths of a person. It is now legally accepted that women are perfectly capable of voting in a manner at least equally intelligent as a man. And no longer are we bound by the religious dogma that stained any idea of a country where all men (I know I'm going to get nailed for quoting this) are created equal.

I say again, if this country isn't as much mine as it is any member of any religious group, I should get a discount on my taxes. Barring that, there is nothing that is due Christians that isn't my due as well. This goes for every single non-christian in this country.


(in reply to HatesParisHilton)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 7:19:53 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome
or you could date it back to 1892 when the Pledge Of Allegiance was written,


In god we trust wasn't added until 1954. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 7:45:27 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
That's what BC means but it isn't correct that the historical Jesus, if he existed, was born in 1AD or 1BC. But you're still fixated on the numbering system in common use at teh time. Were Jews who signed documents including dates written as 'year of our lord' Christians?


I see, I see...

The Founding Fathers measured time before Christ but not after Him...gotcha

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:47:58 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
That's what BC means but it isn't correct that the historical Jesus, if he existed, was born in 1AD or 1BC. But you're still fixated on the numbering system in common use at teh time. Were Jews who signed documents including dates written as 'year of our lord' Christians?


I see, I see...

The Founding Fathers measured time before Christ but not after Him...gotcha


I never said any such thing. If you can respond to any single point brought up in response to your repeated misrepresentations then make it otherwise I'm done with you.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:50:17 PM   
kittinSol


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Besides, who is this Jesus person?

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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:54:38 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Besides, who is this Jesus person?

Yeshuah ben Yoseph if you insist. Apparently some sort of minor rebel in Judea in the first century. Would be completely forgotten but he somehow got made into the central figure of a Roman style mystery cult.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:55:54 PM   
Lostkitten3


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When Bush discovered he could get a majority vote, or close to it by saying he was christian and was doing what god told him to do. (just like Hitler.) And a lot of christians voted for him. Then it became hip to be christian, certainly not to be muslim. Easily led sheep, those christians

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:57:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Besides, who is this Jesus person?

Yeshuah ben Yoseph if you insist. Apparently some sort of minor rebel in Judea in the first century. Would be completely forgotten but he somehow got made into the central figure of a Roman style mystery cult.


Yeshua ben Nozri .. I love it when you tell me things I already know :0) .

_____________________________



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RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:57:38 PM   
tazzygirl


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Wow, christianity became popular just because Bush was in office. Thanks for pointing that out... LOL

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lostkitten3)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:58:38 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Easily led sheep, those christians


Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu, Dorothy Day, Franklin Roosevelt, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman--yeah, real easily led bunch.

Eta: If that statement were made about Jews or Muslims, it would immediately, and rightly, be rebuked for the bigoted utterance that it is.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 9/14/2009 9:00:54 PM >


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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian"... - 9/14/2009 8:59:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Besides, who is this Jesus person?

Yeshuah ben Yoseph if you insist. Apparently some sort of minor rebel in Judea in the first century. Would be completely forgotten but he somehow got made into the central figure of a Roman style mystery cult.


Yeshua ben Nozri .. I love it when you tell me things I already know :0) .

You asked. ;)

BTW did you send me a mail on the other side? Your profile seems to be gone.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 9/14/2009 9:00:37 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
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