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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 6:55:36 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

But certainly - like with Polansky - it's the law and he's guilty. I think it's a waste of taxpayers money to extradite him after all this time, but whatever people who vote think is right, got to agree.

ORIGINAL: sublace

If they promise to give him the sentence he deserves and put him in a cell with either Bernie Madoff or Phil Spector, I'll pay for his airfare from Switzerland.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:01:10 PM

sublace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Agreed. But when does a human (female in this case) stop being a "child". Is sexually molesting a six year old no different from partying with a willing 13 year old? A violation of law is a violation of law, but it does not seem to me unreasonable to consider that differing facts and circumstances merit different sentences.

K.[/font][/size]

I agree for the most part with master Kirata's words. 13 is not 21 either for that matter but it sure isn't 6.

Puberty matters - if we are discussing physical and mental growth and sexuality

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:05:55 PM

tazzygirl

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we arent. we are discussing the law... then and now.

edited to add...

the youngest mother on record was only 5 years old. if puberty was the hallmark, this 5 year old would have been considered an adult.

quote:

Early development
Born in Ticrapo, Peru,[1] Medina was brought to a hospital by her parents at the age of five years due to increasing abdominal size. She was originally thought to have had a tumor, but her doctors determined she was in her seventh month of pregnancy. Dr. Gerardo Lozada took her to Lima, Peru, prior to the surgery to have other specialists confirm that Medina was pregnant. A month and a half later, on May 14, 1939, she gave birth to a boy by a caesarean section necessitated by her small pelvis. The surgery was performed by Dr. Lozada and Dr. Busalleu, with Dr. Colareta providing anaesthesia. Her case was reported in detail by Dr. Edmundo Escomel in the medical journal La Presse Médicale, including the additional details that her menarche had occurred at eight months of age (or 2 1/2 according to a different article)[1] and that she had prominent breast development by the age of four. By age five, her figure displayed pelvic widening and advanced bone maturation.

http://www.answers.com/topic/lina-medina

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/28/2009 7:13:51 PM >

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:11:02 PM

sublace

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OK, that's good and I think law enforcement should get in gear on more recent cases as resources are limited.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:13:26 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Master Kirata....they use the argument that children are sexual creatures... the same argument you posted to this thread.

I have not argued that children are sexual creatures. More to the point, the groups you refer to use that argument to promote sex with children. I have nowhere promoted sex with children.

I have, however, questioned the definition of a "child" being used in this discussion. There is no arbitrary line (the "age of consent") which, once crossed, results in a "child" suddenly metamorphosing into an "adult". Teenagers, in my view, are neither "children" nor "adults". And after puberty, you definitely have a sexual creature on your hands.

I don't really know when teens "should" be allowed to engage in sexual exploration. If we want to say not until they are mentally and emotionally mature, then the age of consent would need to be at around 25 years of age for males and a few years earlier for females, because that is when the areas of the brain involved in evaluating risk have matured.

One thing I am sure of, however, is that the insufferable pride some people take in making self-righteous calls for a man's head on a platter because the clock hadn't ticked off the last minute until some ridiculously arbitrary line in the sand was crossed is bizarre in the extreme.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/28/2009 7:16:33 PM >

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:16:25 PM

tazzygirl

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The law takes care of having to decide case upon case, Master Kirata. Its a blanket law, designed to protect all children, teens, ect. Until such laws change, they are the rules, no matter how much some may wish to argue that the "teen" lead them on. Is it really that hard for adults to control themselves?

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:18:16 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is it really that hard for adults to control themselves?

Look around you.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:20:40 PM

tazzygirl

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Around me i see adults interacting with adults. I would hold the adults here to a higher standard of behavior if minors were around... wouldnt you?

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:20:45 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The law takes care of having to decide case upon case, Master Kirata. Its a blanket law, designed to protect all children, teens, ect. Until such laws change, they are the rules, no matter how much some may wish to argue that the "teen" lead them on. Is it really that hard for adults to control themselves?

tazzy?
For many people, that answer is YES.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:22:50 PM

tazzygirl

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And for those people, we have jails.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:29:01 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

I have, however, questioned the definition of a "child" being used in this discussion. There is no arbitrary line (the "age of consent") which, once crossed, results in a "child" suddenly metamorphosing into an "adult". Teenagers, in my view, are neither "children" nor "adults". And after puberty, you definitely have a sexual creature on your hands. ORIGINAL: Kirata

This isn't a matter of UM's wanting something, it is about adults knowing better than to give it to them. If Polanski had given his victim the keys to his car, alcohol, or taken her somewhere against her parent's wishes no matter how eager she was to go, he would have been committing a crime. Why? Because there are some things a UM isn't ready to do mentally or emotionally.

Your construct of "this wasn't as bad as if would have been with a 6 year old" is as valid as saying a serial killer who has murdered 20 people holds some sort of moral or ethical superiority to one who killed 50 people.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:33:11 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And for those people, we have jails.

I am torn on this one tazzy.
The man served some time already, he is 76 years old, the girl/woman wants the hold
thing dropped, I think he should serve a few more months, do some community service and
be made to donate some of his millions to women's rape and abuse shelters.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/28/2009 7:35:09 PM >

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:35:34 PM

tazzygirl

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Im not asking for his head. I believe he should come back, face a judge, be sentenced, fullfill his sentence, and then be deported. Exactly what would have happened 30 years ago had the man not been a chicken and ran. The more people realize they can hide from justice here, the harder it will become to actually uphold our laws. If you play here, you pay here.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:39:38 PM

Marc2b

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I’m amazed that this thread is still in existence.

That aside:

Kirata, you are right that it is silly to deny the existence of sexual feelings in teenagers once they have hit puberty. You are also right that there is no arbitrary line where an adolescent magically crosses a threshold and suddenly becomes emotionally and mentally mature enough to give informed consent to sexual activity. It will be different for each individual. The important fact is that society recognizes that most teenagers are mentally and emotionally to immature to give informed consent – particularly the younger ones. So, to protect them, society draws a line around them and loudly proclaims, “Do Not Touch!”

I don’t think there is anything wrong with an adult who finds a well developed teenager sexually attractive. Let’s face it, certain shapes in certain proportions trigger off certain neurons in our brain. But as adults we are expected to exercise out intellects over our emotions. Most do. Those who can’t must be punished in accordance with the law – otherwise the law has no meaning.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:49:51 PM

UncleNasty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

But certainly - like with Polansky - it's the law and he's guilty. I think it's a waste of taxpayers money to extradite him after all this time, but whatever people who vote think is right, got to agree.

ORIGINAL: sublace

If they promise to give him the sentence he deserves and put him in a cell with either Bernie Madoff or Phil Spector, I'll pay for his airfare from Switzerland.

That is liable to be rather pricey. I would expect a small jet, private, with at least 2 US Marshalls. Do you think extraditions are done on public and commercial flights?

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:53:49 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not asking for his head. I believe he should come back, face a judge, be sentenced, fullfill his sentence, and then be deported. Exactly what would have happened 30 years ago had the man not been a chicken and ran. The more people realize they can hide from justice here, the harder it will become to actually uphold our laws. If you play here, you pay here.

I agree he should be brought back and have to pay something here.
The more people that get away with committing crimes and fleeing the country,
the more it will happen.

_____________________________

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To Each His/Her Own
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What's your favorite fetish?
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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:54:14 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Your construct of "this wasn't as bad as if would have been with a 6 year old" is as valid as saying a serial killer who has murdered 20 people holds some sort of moral or ethical superiority to one who killed 50 people.

Try to get a grip. You are the one thinking in terms of moral absolutes. Assuming that the context in which you see things is necessarily the only reasonable and proper way for anyone else to view them is self-centered and boorish. I was thinking in terms of the psychological, emotional, and physical maturity of the victim, and the likely psychological, emotional, and physical damage that would be inflicted.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/28/2009 7:58:50 PM >

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 7:59:55 PM

tazzygirl

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When a 5 year old can become physically mature enough to produce life, we cannot use that as the only hallmark for ability to give consent. Just like someone who is old enough by law, yet mentally handicapped, may not be considered able to give consent. Laws are not designed to protect on a case by case basis but by using a broad spectrum. And most child psychologists may disagree about the ability of a 13 year old to give informed consent regarding a sexual relationship.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 8:41:07 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Laws are not designed to protect on a case by case basis

Justice, however, requires it. That is why the circumstances of each individual case must be considered, and often a severe charge may be bargained down to a lesser plea if it become obvious that proceeding on the greater charge may risk an acquittal. Accordingly, to discuss those circumstances, as we (or at least some of us) are doing here, reflects our interest in justice, not our disrespect for the law.

K.

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RE: Polanski Arrested. - 9/28/2009 8:45:00 PM

slutslave4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And for those people, we have jails.

I am torn on this one tazzy.
The man served some time already, he is 76 years old, the girl/woman wants the hold
thing dropped, I think he should serve a few more months, do some community service and
be made to donate some of his millions to women's rape and abuse shelters.

The only "time" he served was an evaluation ordered by the court, a mere I believe was 42 days of which was not the entire time that the evaluation period was to begin with.....he never once served ANY time for the crime for which he plead guilty to, let alone the other charges that were dropped to get the plea. It does not matter his age, he did the crime, and has yet to pay his debt due to his running out of the country like a little bitch. Also again as pointed out several times, it is not up to the child (now lady) in question the victim, to say whether or not it should be dropped, nor her mother. It is the courts jurisdictions decision only to make.

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