RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex?

RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex?

Do you feel it is okay to disguise your birth sex?

44% (17)

Do you feel it is not okay to disguise your birth sex?

55% (21)

Total Votes : 38

(last vote on : 9/30/2009 5:32:56 PM)
(Poll ended: 10/2/2009 1:00:00 PM)

Message

LanceHughes -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 11:44:57 AM)
And the flaming begins....... Typical, typical of those who can not argue their position (especially when they realize they are wrong.) You do not answer even my objection to the wording of your poll. At the very least, you could have made the poll ask "As a male transexual, do you disguise your birth sex in your profile here on CollarMe.com?" Whether or not they are "okay" with that is really another whole question.... guilt is the first thing that comes to mind that might bias this poll. I am trying to help you get the data you say you want. Try a new poll and see whether that poll gets all these objections, suggestions and constructive critisms. I bet not!

MsLeslieBabydoll -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 11:51:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Unlike you Leslie... I haven't claimed to have done research. How you switch things up, twist them and play off things is something I have an opinion on and I am allowed. You can hit hide the bad Lockit any time you like. Opinions and personal attacks are very different things Ma'am. An opinion is an expression of one's thoughts on a subject, that do not involve demeaning other people. A personal attack is when you demean and insult another person. Although we are all able and permitted to give our opinions on subjects posted on the bulletin board, the last time that I checked, it was a violation of the rules of the board to launch a personal attack against any poster. But then again, I could be right, or wrong about that too. Perhaps if you spent more time just stating your opinion on things I write, than launching personal attacks against me solely to do so, then perhaps I would be able to give those statements that you make, which are actual opinions, more credibility. But you attack me so much on this board that I think that you see me as some kind of receptacle for all of the hate and disregard for other people that you harbor inside yourself, who don't happen to be in your own personal clique here at CM. You must, though, apparently instead, like me a great deal, because I come up so often in your posts on this board. But maybe you don't at all. The latter tends to be more believable at this point, but I will withhold any judgment on that until I see how long of a period of time it was between personal insults you launched my way [:D]

MsLeslieBabydoll -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 11:53:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes And the flaming begins....... Yes I wondered how long it would be before you launched your first personal attack on the board. Apparently, you just couldn't wait any longer

LanceHughes -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 11:54:46 AM)
I comment ONLY on what you have written. If I had you in a research class, you'd fail. That's NOT flaming, that's the grade you would have earned by your obvious lack of understanding. Demographics, demographics, demographics. <Oh, wait.... you're not in class, and I don't have to give you a grade. I was done with you, remember?>

ModeratorEleven -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 12:19:40 PM)
Settle down, folks. XI

RCdc -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 12:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsLeslieBabydoll Wow, so many are defensive today. I am very accustomed to people slamming me for doing research, I've only been doing it for about 25 years now. I do trust that you did not feel I was slamming you. On the contrary. I was offering an explaination as to why people may be a little frustrated at such a poll - because there has been so much negativity to trans orientated posts recently. (By recent I would suggest - the past 6 months). quote: Generally the people taking potshots will find a different issue tomorrow to bitch about. Absolutely. Which is why my suggestion would be to ignore the negative and not feed into it? quote: That poll question was VERY SPECIFIC. It addressed a VERY SMALL percentage of the general population. I think that we could both agree that there are far more people, as a demographic, who are black, or white, or hispanic, or that are asian, than are transvestites (TV) and crossdressers (CD). The 'problem' is that you never outlined what you meant by transvestites and unfortunately, it is often a very mis-identified subsection - and honestly - there are some people that need things set out precisely so they can understand. quote: The percentage of people within the transgender community that self-identify as transgender, when they are specifically a transvestite (or crossdresser, which is the slang term for transvestite) medically, has risen dramatically in the last ten years. And I believe this is where you have answered your own 'question' in a sense. As I said above, there is a huge percentage of people who do not know how to define themselves clearly. quote: Much of this has come from the advent of same-sex marriage, and a generally greater overall acceptance of transgendered people all across the United States. Having dealt with issues relating to transgenderism since I was in college (I graduated in 1982), I think that even just 26 years is probably enough to establish that I probably know a bit more about TG people, and the TG community, than the average Jack or Jill. I cannot comment on that as I do not know you. quote: I have no way of knowing if you or any other person here is a crossdresser or transvestite, because I have not seen that addressed that in many of the comments today concerning the poll. I am not transgendered nor a cross dresser - if that helps. I have had relationships with transgendered and those that cross dress - all of which were and are very positive experiences, if that gives you any extra assistance. quote: Knowing whether or not the person making a negative post was a male transsexual would probably go a great distance in determining the specific social bias of the respondents. Agreed. quote: I have noticed the sniping though, and if you don't want to give an opinion through the poll, that is your prerogative. It isn't that I do not wish to, as I said, it is more that I cannot as I do not believe that the word 'should' is a constructive word. quote: It is a voluntary thing, and no one pointed a gun at your head and forced you to open this thread. Absolutely. quote: Crossdressers and transvestites are the solid majority in the transgendered community. More than half of the crossdressers and transvestites in the TG community, according to a study done by interns at the University of Chicago, a few years ago, referred to themselves as "transgendered"; which was up by more than 20% from the result obtained in a similar study, just ten years prior to that particular study. Which is an interesting statistic. To me, that indicates either that the word 'transgendered' is misunderstood to an extent or - which I find more likely is that the word is evolving. Now whether that is a positive or a negative thing, I suspect is subjective. quote: The way that I phrased the question was specifically targeted at discussing a practice being used by male transvestites, or CDs, as many crossdressers categorize themselves. This is important, because I CHOSE not to use the term transgender at all, as that also includes transsexuals. For clarity, in today's medical community, transgendered persons are either transvestites or transsexuals. Physicians as a whole, have not yet identified any other demographic, that is of such a number, that their definition would require revision. This way, the reader of the question could know, with absolute certainty, that the question was asked in order to get a sense of whether or not the general membership at Collar Me, was okay with the current practice, that many CDs have adopted here at Collar Me, of disguising their birth sex. A crossdresser might be a CD today, and a transsexual next year; but that is speculation; for we don't know if they will accept their sex differently next year. I would surmise is that the issue that you are having with negativity is the accusation of that people who are transexual are disguising their sex. I don't think that it's the poll itself that is an issue, but the way you communicate. It doesn't help that you are new to the forums either - people tend to be less forgiving. quote: So, in asking whether or not it is now a socially accepted practice for a male crossdresser to disguise their birth sex, the only question being asked is whether or not a specific sub-class of transgendered persons (that sub-class being crossdresers), in not representing one's actual birth sex, is something that the general membership of Collar Me, who answers the poll, is something that it is okay with, or something that is not okay with, which then might necessitate addressing the matter from the site owner's perspective; which may or may not be an additional consideration for those good folks. I understood that from the start. But the thing is that CM isn't obligated to consider that people might lie - or be confused or not communicate in a clear manner. It's up to people as individuals to ask or find out is a prosepctive partner may or not be compatable... and that includes lying. CM is no different to any other pick up joint or bar. People are there offering over their persona whether they are sitting behind a desk or propping up the bar with a drink in their hand. Whether they are false or lying or completely honest isn't any concern to the establishment unless they were employing said person. That would be a different scenario altogether. the.dark.

stella41b -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 12:26:35 PM)
Welcome back. 25 years of research and you still can't get people to accept you for who you claim you are or even accept what you are saying? It's not a poll you need luv, but at least you can count on my sympathy.

zephyrkajira -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 1:59:52 PM)
If you were actually interested in doing research that would be one thing, but given your opinion on TVs, TGs and CDs as shown on your last thread somehow I suspect you are trying to gather "data" to use to get these people thrown off CM. Nice try, doubt it will work. zephyr

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 2:12:45 PM)
-FR- I can't vote because I don't know what the op means by transvestite? A transvestite can't hide their birth sex in any realistic way that a sexual partner wouldn't find out about. The question is a bit unrealistic it perhaps assumes there is a high number of transgendered people or transsexuals duping their partners or potential partners, I don’t see much statistical evidence for this in the world (I would be able to find it). Kind of like asking ‘would you mind if your partner lied about going to the moon.’ You can probably highlight a couple of anecdotal extreme examples that perpetuate this myth but nothing else. I don’t see the Dept of Justice creating statistics over such heinous crimes that you are concerning yourself with. edited: added stuff.

MsLeslieBabydoll -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 2:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Welcome back. 25 years of research and you still can't get people to accept you for who you claim you are or even accept what you are saying? It's not a poll you need luv, but at least you can count on my sympathy. I use polls from time to time to help me to get some direction, prior to putting together an outline; this poll was meant to allow me to do that. Creating and publishing an opinion poll, on a specific topic, does yield some beneficial information. It is not uncommon for political subdivisions and groups to use polls in an attempt to create and manipulate public opinion on many different types of topcs, and since they are not, generally, done with the same kinds of restrictions that one would use if a scientific study of the same topic was being undertaken, poll participants routinely intentionally skew their answers so that the result could be deemed as wildly inaccurate. Sometimes, you can tell, simply by the numbers of responses, to a survey available to a large number of people, the level of interest in that particular topic. The four published studies that I have completed, up till now, have covered a wide variety of subject matter. The fields that I studied, and reported on, were: Coastal Hydrology, Public Transportation Spending, Emergency Management, and Criminal Records Management. The most extensive study that I managed was the study about coastal hydrology (12 years from start to finish), and the most difficult study that I managed was the study about criminal records management (That one took 7 years to complete). Although some research has few tangible benefits, in most instances, a great deal of information is obtained, that can then be used to make very valuable and tangible changes, which can then lead to a number of significant developments in processes, law, and other aspects of the human experience. A researcher is sometimes praised for their work itself, or the importance of the information derived from their research, however, a researcher gets few '"thank yous" from the people that they interview. It's okay, I am VERY used to that part of the job.

CalifChick -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 2:34:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsLeslieBabydoll So, in asking whether or not it is now a socially accepted practice for a male crossdresser to disguise their birth sex, the only question being asked is whether or not a specific sub-class of transgendered persons (that sub-class being crossdresers), in not representing one's actual birth sex, is something that the general membership of Collar Me, who answers the poll, is something that it is okay with, or something that is not okay with, which then might necessitate addressing the matter from the site owner's perspective; which may or may not be an additional consideration for those good folks. Isn't your cart very, very far in front of your horse? Don't you think you would be better off finding out if your opinion poll would make any difference? Do you plan on personally inspecting every collarme user and/or running a dna test to see if they are male or female? While you're at it, I would like you to measure their height and weight and require that the truth be posted. I find the problem of men who claim to be over 5 ft 10 inches but are not (I'm 5 ft 7 and somehow I'm taller in flat shoes than these men) AND men who claim to weigh 200 pounds or less (but easily tip the scales at 350-400 pounds) to be far more important than what gender they call themselves. I mean seriously, these people are a menace! And I'm sure the guys have the same issue... the petite little doll turns out to be a linebacker on the weekends and could bench-press a Buick with no problem. Truth in Advertising! If you're gonna post it, then it MUST BE TRUE!!! Cali

Lockit -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 2:53:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick quote: ORIGINAL: MsLeslieBabydoll So, in asking whether or not it is now a socially accepted practice for a male crossdresser to disguise their birth sex, the only question being asked is whether or not a specific sub-class of transgendered persons (that sub-class being crossdresers), in not representing one's actual birth sex, is something that the general membership of Collar Me, who answers the poll, is something that it is okay with, or something that is not okay with, which then might necessitate addressing the matter from the site owner's perspective; which may or may not be an additional consideration for those good folks. Isn't your cart very, very far in front of your horse? Don't you think you would be better off finding out if your opinion poll would make any difference? Do you plan on personally inspecting every collarme user and/or running a dna test to see if they are male or female? While you're at it, I would like you to measure their height and weight and require that the truth be posted. I find the problem of men who claim to be over 5 ft 10 inches but are not (I'm 5 ft 7 and somehow I'm taller in flat shoes than these men) AND men who claim to weigh 200 pounds or less (but easily tip the scales at 350-400 pounds) to be far more important than what gender they call themselves. I mean seriously, these people are a menace! And I'm sure the guys have the same issue... the petite little doll turns out to be a linebacker on the weekends and could bench-press a Buick with no problem. Truth in Advertising! If you're gonna post it, then it MUST BE TRUE!!! Cali The red highlight just tells me she plans to tell on us and expects the site owners to do something about us or our answers or those who are disguising their sex.

KYsissy -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 2:58:41 PM)
If you have a penis, you are male. If you have a vagina, you are female. To answer otherwise is misleading and deceptive. edit: But this is the internet, 99% BS and 1% genuine.

MsLeslieBabydoll -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:04:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 -FR- I can't vote because I don't know what the op means by transvestite? A transvestite can't hide their birth sex in any realistic way that a sexual partner wouldn't find out about. Here you go; I wouldn't want you to confuse yourself anymore than you already have. The definition below was taken from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary transvestite One entry found. Main Entry: trans·ves·tite Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-ˈves-ˌtīt, tranz-\ Function: noun Etymology: German Transvestit, from Latin trans- + vestire to clothe — more at vest Date: circa 1922 *: a person and especially a male who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex* especially for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification** — trans·ves·tism \-ˈves-ˌti-zəm\ also trans·ves·tit·ism \-ˈves-ˌti-ˌti-zəm\ noun — transvestite adjective quote: The question is a bit unrealistic it perhaps assumes there is a high number of transgendered people or transsexuals duping their partners or potential partners, I don’t see much statistical evidence for this in the world (I would be able to find it). Kind of like asking ‘would you mind if your partner lied about going to the moon.’ The question is not unrealistic at all; nor does is have ANYTHING to do with anyone's relationship at home. The question is about HOW PROFILES ARE BEING PUT TOGETHER ON COLLAR ME; ABOUT NOTHING ELSE!!!! How someone is constructing a profile at Collar Me has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with the personal relationship of ANY PERSON, whether they have a profile at Collar Me or not. I do, however, have personal experience, with more than one relative, of a female relative having a transvestite husband, who not only hid their crossdressing ways from their wife, but also was a gay male, when the wife, once again, had NO IDEA that was the case. After I viewed every profile on Collar Me, in which the profile creator listed "female" as their sex, I noticed that far beyond just a couple of profiles, in fact, MANY, MANY of these profiles were not of genetic females at all, but were the profiles of male transvestites who had selected, in their personal and physical description page (page 1 of the profile application), their sex to read FEMALE. With so many (I stopped counting when I arrived at the 300th profile that had been created in EXACTLY the same manner); all were male transvestites, all listed themselves as female, and the majority of THOSE MALE TRANSVESTITES WHO LISTED THEIR SEX AS FEMALE, listed their sexual preference as "LESBIAN", I KNEW that the practice being employed was a "method", and NOT hundreds of mistakes. Male transvestites are NOT genetic, birth sex females. A female IS NOT a male transvestite. Pre-operation, pro-operation, and non-operation transsexuals, whether they are Male to Female, or Female to Male, are NOT females, WHATSOEVER. And since only transsexuals and transvestites comprise the sole, two individual categories of "transgender persons", or "transgendered persons", and since there are no other identified sexual descriptors of people, you ran out of possibilities of the type of person mentioned in the poll VERY QUICKLY. Male transvestites ARE disguising their actual birth sex on Collar Me, and it is being done intentionally. And the people that I identify as transvestites are people WHO DID NOT SPECIFICALLY DECLARE THEIR INTENTION TO UNDERGO SEXUAL REASSIGNMENT SURGERY. I have no idea why you and so many others today just want to act silly, in regards to this poll. Why don't you just simply come out and be honest: by your comments, you simply DO NOT LIKE IT, and YOU DON'T LIKE IT ONE BIT! Hmmm, well too bad you feel that way. That is your issue, not an issue for this bulletin board, or it' readers. quote: You can probably highlight a couple of anecdotal extreme examples that perpetuate this myth but nothing else. I don’t see the Dept of Justice creating statistics over such heinous crimes that you are concerning yourself with. Now who is coming to this board with their own political agenda? I am REALLY interested now in why you, and others here on this board today, are SO ADAMANT about the importance of protecting those, who are COLLECTIVELY acting as a group, to deceive and mislead other Collar Me members. Do you have a political agenda? What is your point anyway? I do not see a single point made in this post, that you have written, that has one bit of relativity to the ACTUAL POLL QUESTION! Some male transvestites are, in fact, gay men (NO WAY!). Some transsexuals have gone and gotten a diagnosis of Gender Identity Dysphoria solely to obtain Social Security Disability payments and free medical care through MEDICAID (THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY THAT ANY TRANSGENDER PERSON WOULD EVER BE DISHONEST ABOUT ANYTHING!). Sometimes, I just don't get it. Seems to me that once all of the political agendas FINALLY GET PUT ON THE TABLE, then we will all be able to know who is providing cover for who, and why they are.

Lockit -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:09:56 PM)
Now its a conspiricy! lol Last thread it was a dangerous liar turns into a rapist or murderer. lol Yikes...

stella41b -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:10:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsLeslieBabydoll quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Welcome back. 25 years of research and you still can't get people to accept you for who you claim you are or even accept what you are saying? It's not a poll you need luv, but at least you can count on my sympathy. I use polls from time to time to help me to get some direction, prior to putting together an outline; this poll was meant to allow me to do that. Creating and publishing an opinion poll, on a specific topic, does yield some beneficial information. It is not uncommon for political subdivisions and groups to use polls in an attempt to create and manipulate public opinion on many different types of topcs, and since they are not, generally, done with the same kinds of restrictions that one would use if a scientific study of the same topic was being undertaken, poll participants routinely intentionally skew their answers so that the result could be deemed as wildly inaccurate. Sometimes, you can tell, simply by the numbers of responses, to a survey available to a large number of people, the level of interest in that particular topic. The four published studies that I have completed, up till now, have covered a wide variety of subject matter. The fields that I studied, and reported on, were: Coastal Hydrology, Public Transportation Spending, Emergency Management, and Criminal Records Management. The most extensive study that I managed was the study about coastal hydrology (12 years from start to finish), and the most difficult study that I managed was the study about criminal records management (That one took 7 years to complete). Although some research has few tangible benefits, in most instances, a great deal of information is obtained, that can then be used to make very valuable and tangible changes, which can then lead to a number of significant developments in processes, law, and other aspects of the human experience. A researcher is sometimes praised for their work itself, or the importance of the information derived from their research, however, a researcher gets few '"thank yous" from the people that they interview. It's okay, I am VERY used to that part of the job. Ah so it's not been research on the transgendered community. Okay. Point taken. But I have a question for you here, and maybe you can answer it here on these boards for the benefit of all of us. Or rather, a few questions. You appear to have already made an assumption here with your premise that male transvestites (and crossdressers) are somehow disguising their actual birth gender to others which forms the basis of your question. Please also bear in mind that you, like me, declare openly that you are transgendered. My first question is this - knowing that it can take years of self-discovery for someone who is transgendered to work out who they are exactly, and that the establishment as to whether someone is a transsexual, transvestite, crossdresser or other also requires careful clinical examination how come you can so quickly jump to the conclusion that someone declaring themselves to be a transvestite or a crossdresser is seeking to disguise their birth gender? Furthermore, how can you even make that assumption without knowing the person personally? Another question is this, as you are transgendered and are fully aware that there are many different situations where not just male transvestites and crossdressers make that decision over whether to declare to someone their birth gender or not, why have you not given any specific contexts in this poll as to how or why they disguise their birth gender to others? Does this mean, as you appear to be against someone 'disguising' their birth gender, that you would expect a male transvestite wearing women's clothing to walk down the street carrying a huge sign which reads 'ACTUALLY I AM A MALE TRANSVESTITE'? My third question is as you are not a male transvestite or crossdresser, why is this issue of whether they reveal their birth gender or not and to who and why so relevant to you? Does it affect you personally? Why do you feel it affects you personally? My fourth question is on who's authority do you feel empowered to speak on behalf of the transgendered community as a whole? Finally, as you appear to be so willing to 'out' others, and that it seems so much as a mission, what does this say about you as a person? Have you always been so open and honest about revealing your birth gender indiscriminately to others? I look forward to you posting your responses to my questions above.

CalifChick -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:11:06 PM)
Yes, Lockit, that was my point (and my red highlight [;)]). Cali

fluffypet61 -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:13:56 PM)
Come on...come on...it's just a computer screen. Who cares what people say about themselves. You don't meet most of them ... ever. Let them have their fantasy. If you do want to meet someone in person you can check them out a little closer. But what harm does it do if you don't know where they started in life? If you are compatable NOW that's all that matters. If you like who and what they are NOW, that's what's important.

CalifChick -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:17:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsLeslieBabydoll I do, however, have personal experience, with more than one relative, of a female relative having a transvestite husband, who not only hid their crossdressing ways from their wife, but also was a gay male, when the wife, once again, had NO IDEA that was the case. But did they meet on Collarme? And did the men turn out to be dangerous rapists and murderers? What is the percentage of female-lesbian-transvestites-who-are-really-men on Collarme who are in fact dangerous rapists and murderers? Are the jails in Minnesota just bursting at the seems with these transvestites? Or is this truly a global problem? Why have we not heard of these raping/murdering transvestites before now? Cali

KYsissy -> RE: Should Male Transvestites Be Allowed To Disguise Their Birth Sex? (9/28/2009 3:22:44 PM)
quote: Come on...come on...it's just a computer screen. Who cares what people say about themselves. You don't meet most of them ... ever. Let them have their fantasy. Exactly!!! I don't argue with this one bit. If someone is going to misrepresent themselves, chances are they will never meet face to face. The internet is full of liars and thieves. So is the local street corner. If one is incapable of dealing with this situation, do not participate. Sit home alone. I have no quarrel with someone who has a penis and "prefers" to call themselves a female. I get it. I really do. But it is deceptive not to disclose that while in the head it is all female, down below it is male. Is it WRONG? Eh maybe. deceptive? IMO yes. Just my 2 cents. And it is worth exactly 2 cents.

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