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Termyn8or -> God's Gays (10/4/2009 12:42:43 AM)

If you are faithful please do not read this. This is the thread promised in the other thread.

Now here we have a religion. This thing professes to preach the word of the Lord and Master, indeed the Creator and main engineer of the world, and the universe. Therefore this entity has set the laws of physics, of science, of genetics, of human nature as well as the traits of animals and other life on this planet, and if you extend the belief that far, in any corner of the universe.

So this all knowing, all omnipotent being builds us with desires. Sexual desires which promote the continuation of the species, on that we can all agree. But in some, and this applies to kinkster to some extent, they are attracted to the same sex. Now all the sudden religion thinks it's fucking science when it has no business saying so, because first of all it purports that you must believe things which cannot be proven, which means logic is tossed aside. Then they say thet homosexuality is abnormal and is actually wrong because it does not result in procreation.

This is so fucked up on so many levels I can't even be sure I can cover it all in a normal attention span.

First of all they actually will claim that this is logical because only heterosexuality produces offspring. Wait a minute here, these guys preach illogical shit all day long and all the sudden become logical ? Bullshit. (and let me tell you, I know the root cause of this, but will not put it here and now, perhaps later) I mean we already knew that. Now I am not Gay, but sometimes I wish I was. They do have it good sometimes. But that is not the point.

Then they say that God said this and God said that. Well God said I should light this joint. God said I should steal a car, and rob a bank, and all kinds of cool shit. If God is truly omnipotent he has actually said all these things and actually everything that can be said. If you truly understand what omnipotent is, you can see that. And if God is truly omnipotent, we, as well as the Devil, and whoever else are part of Him, and that is that. But to accept the way life is going as God's will is ridiculous.

And they beat their chest (figuratively) saying that natural disasters are God's wrath, and therefore proof of their stupid assertations. 

And then we have the opinions of a friend of mine. His brother is Gay, so he can accept at the very least, and we went together to a kink party once which he found quite interesting. For more detail on that mail me.

He said if God created us and we are to consider him like a Father and we are his children, where is the guidance ? He did not put it as succinctly as that but that is what he meant. I can't argue against that. If you have children is it not your responsibility to guide them ?

Furthermore, if homosexuality is wrong at the core, why are people born with the desire, or why is that desire somehow allowed to come to, so to speak ?

To even attempt to answer these questions one might do well to actually play God. OK here goes.

I am making something, but I am going to make some of them defective or unable or unwilling to be fruitful and multiply. I will burn them in hell until my son comes along and saves them. Is that about right ?

Another thing about logic. The book says Man should not lay with Man, but what about Woman with Woman. Not a fucking word about that eh ? Same result, no fruit (offspring).

Now how this has shaped society is a different matter. Among the normal vanillas, the regular folk, there are certain things I have observed. First of all, it seems perfectly acceptable for them to watch a Lesbian video. But both male and female have an aversion to watching a Gay (male) video. This applies to scenes and orgies as well.

For example most guys would jump at the chance to have two Women at the same time, which may prove them bi, or possibly Lesbian/bi, like tolerate him because he is fun. But take the same guy and tell him there is a threesome but it will be two guys and one girl, most will head for the hills.

As with other things, the Bible might have not really been meant to span millenia. Don't eat pork. OK, pork needs to be refrigerated, and cooked fully. They perhaps could not do that back then. If that is the case it was sage advice. Even perhaps as the Bible describes which animals are not meant to be eaten, it might be based on something rooted in fact. We cannot discount that.

I guess I could see why supposed leaders of the people would see heterosexual relationships as the only way, as the world needed more people back then, and they needed more people to lead. However now we have plenty of people.

Well some of them are not falling for their bullshit, I can tell you that for sure. There is only one religion at my house, and that is ; You don't fuck Termy. And I mean that both ways. (lol)

At any rate, this "startem when they're young" on religion IMO is a CRIME. I see in myself what has instilled my old stereotypes, bigotries and whatever else. I now know the cause. I now know the cure, and actually there is none. Your concious mind supercedes these notions. 

FACE IT MFs, you look at a really ugly person what comes to your mind ? You look at a morbidly obese person what do you think first ? You look at someone deformed or maimed, cripped up or something what goes throught your mind ?

ADMIT IT. Don't fucking run away. You think something like "Yikes ! ". But then your mind kicks in and you act as an adult and check the situation out. You are conciously conducting yourself the way whch is expected of an adult in today's society. All those prejudices and whatever else do still exist, but you set them aside like those childish things, and grow up.

But it is still there. I admit it. Can you ? You know prejudice is not always wrong either. Just to lay out an example, if you come across a 400 pound Black Woman, and you see her before she speaks, do you expect a voice like John Cameron Swayze ? (the "It's still ticking" guy). Of course you don't, but it is possible.

In other words, are the religious really using faith as a crutch, to avoid full self realization ? Or are they megalomaniacs who think that anyone not like them must be eradicated from the face of the Earth ? The religous types are often the most bigoted. My God is better than your God.

Some brotherhood of Man.

I await.

T




TurboJugend -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 1:03:18 AM)

I am still trying to process all what you said..it is a lott, but

quote:

He said if God created us and we are to consider him like a Father and we are his children, where is the guidance ?

Some believe in a mixture of  God's creation and evolution.
Meaning God created the world..and then left to have evolution take over.
Would explain why he doesn't guide.

quote:

The book says Man should not lay with Man, but what about Woman with Woman.

Woman had a submissive role then....not important ( sorry ladies). And most male likes 2 females together...lol

quote:

My God is better than your God.


Impossible. There is only one.
lol


Not sure about the pork remark in the bible. Wasn't that the Islam?

Anyway..gonna reread it later. Bit to much this early on the sunday morning




LadyEllen -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 5:27:28 AM)

TJ - pork is prohibited in the OT alright; that prohibition comes from the shared heritage in ancient Judaism that is also shared by Islam.

And according to those prohibitions, not one Christian I should suspect, will ever be adhering to them - but then whilst Judaism and Islam seems to take it all a bit too seriously in the modern context, Christianity feels free to pick and choose which bits apply and which bits dont.

Check it out - lots of food we eat every day or at least which we could eat everyday, is prohibited. But then, I aint seen many slaves with their ears bored through lately either....... as per the instructions provided.

E




pahunkboy -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 6:35:44 AM)

The self acceptance thing took me a long time- then when I got there- it was a family thing.   Which took many years.

Does any craft teach all the secret to the patents?    Think about that.   A feng shui master is not going to teach you EVERYTHING they know.    

I don't have the answers.   But I am glad I did not take the pretend route and ruin many lifes- a have a cousin who did- and he is pretty smug about that......  for now.





UncleNasty -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 6:45:16 AM)

I've read the Bible. All of it. Because of that I am not Christian.

Uncle Nasty




DesFIP -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 6:47:16 AM)

Trichanosis is not why Judaism prohibits pork or shellfish.

The Leviticus quote usually used to prohibit male homosexuality actually prohibits male temple prostitution.

You have to realize that Christian bible translators are translating from translations. Liturgical Hebrew, a language without vowels or punctuation, into Aramaic, into Vulgate Latin, into vulgar languages. And since the word homosexuality was not coined until a couple of hundred years ago, it is obvious that it was not used in the original writings.




HatesParisHilton -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:12:38 AM)

Red Sea instead of Sea of Reeds...




pahunkboy -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:19:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Trichanosis is not why Judaism prohibits pork or shellfish.

The Leviticus quote usually used to prohibit male homosexuality actually prohibits male temple prostitution.

You have to realize that Christian bible translators are translating from translations. Liturgical Hebrew, a language without vowels or punctuation, into Aramaic, into Vulgate Latin, into vulgar languages. And since the word homosexuality was not coined until a couple of hundred years ago, it is obvious that it was not used in the original writings.


By drunk men in togas or shepherds clothes.

In a way it presumes a wive owes sex- and sex should not be demanded of another male.

...it seems to me that a person just has to be true to themself.   Treat others with the golden rule...  and so on.




HatesParisHilton -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:21:47 AM)

makes you wonder,

if men could be impregnated, if any of these bigotries would have arisen at all?




tazzygirl -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:42:42 AM)

quote:

But to accept the way life is going as God's will is ridiculous.


It isnt God's will... its our will... free will... all he/she can do is sit back and watch.

quote:

He said if God created us and we are to consider him like a Father and we are his children, where is the guidance ? He did not put it as succinctly as that but that is what he meant. I can't argue against that. If you have children is it not your responsibility to guide them ?


Some would argue he has given guidance... with the bible.. with the various ministries... what would you like him to do? take away your free will to make choice? you have parents who begin it... then you have the world who molds it... ultimately, like with any adult, the decisions you make have consequences...

quote:

Now how this has shaped society is a different matter. Among the normal vanillas, the regular folk, there are certain things I have observed. First of all, it seems perfectly acceptable for them to watch a Lesbian video. But both male and female have an aversion to watching a Gay (male) video. This applies to scenes and orgies as well.

For example most guys would jump at the chance to have two Women at the same time, which may prove them bi, or possibly Lesbian/bi, like tolerate him because he is fun. But take the same guy and tell him there is a threesome but it will be two guys and one girl, most will head for the hills.


I know many kink people who have the same problem with male on male sex.. not sure what your point is here...

quote:

At any rate, this "startem when they're young" on religion IMO is a CRIME. I see in myself what has instilled my old stereotypes, bigotries and whatever else. I now know the cause. I now know the cure, and actually there is none. Your concious mind supercedes these notions.


And you are entitled to your opinion, as the parents are entitled to raise their children as they see fit... or are you advocating taking away the parents responsibilities of raising their children and giving it to the state?

quote:

ADMIT IT. Don't fucking run away. You think something like "Yikes ! ". But then your mind kicks in and you act as an adult and check the situation out. You are conciously conducting yourself the way whch is expected of an adult in today's society. All those prejudices and whatever else do still exist, but you set them aside like those childish things, and grow up.

But it is still there. I admit it. Can you ? You know prejudice is not always wrong either. Just to lay out an example, if you come across a 400 pound Black Woman, and you see her before she speaks, do you expect a voice like John Cameron Swayze ? (the "It's still ticking" guy). Of course you don't, but it is possible.


The amazing thing about children is ... they dont see those things... they are taught to see those things. adults see those things far more easily.

quote:

In other words, are the religious really using faith as a crutch, to avoid full self realization ? Or are they megalomaniacs who think that anyone not like them must be eradicated from the face of the Earth ? The religous types are often the most bigoted. My God is better than your God.


Seems like you are advocating the same thing. Be careful of becoming like what you despise.




Level -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:47:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
The book says Man should not lay with Man, but what about Woman with Woman. Not a fucking word about that eh ? Same result, no fruit (offspring).


Yeah, but two chicks, well, that's hawt.

Not all Christians believe that being gay is "wrong", or bad.




pahunkboy -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:53:29 AM)

One odd thing is that UMs can pick out a gay a mile a way.   Then as they age- it becomes harder to determine.

Has anyone else noticed that?




tazzygirl -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:54:29 AM)

lol... im down to a 75% accuracy at 50 paces... close enough?




pahunkboy -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:56:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... im down to a 75% accuracy at 50 paces... close enough?



LOLOL.    I am smiling!!




MarsBonfire -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 7:57:45 AM)

Termy wrote:
"Now I am not Gay, but sometimes I wish I was. They do have it good sometimes. But that is not the point. "

Yeah. we GLBT folks have it soooo good. We usually get the shit kicked out of us in school while growing up. We often get thrown out of the house of our parents if we're outed or we out ourselves. We have a suicide rate among teens that's almost four times the national average. Depending on our situation, we could end up being thrown out of our church, losing our jobs, and having people refuse to rent an apartment to us. Banks can, and have, declined loans because "we might be an AIDS risk." We get bashed on a regular basis.

Sure, the media's perception of being GLB is that we all just have wonderful lives, running in and rebuilding neighborhoods, cooking great food, all the sex we want, and having more disposable income than straights. They pretty much ignore the downside of homophobia. Some people think that it disappeared in the 90's, after the pandemic began to decline (it hasn't really, it's just moved on to other demographics) But, I can assure you, that hatred of gays is alive and well, just as racisim still exists in the US, despite our having Obama as President.

Your observations about why the religious fundamentalist types hate us so much is interesting, if rather primative. You forget, however, that the hatred extends way beyond the limits of just religion. Straight males, in general tend to be uncomfortable around us, either because they are unsure of their own sexuality, or else see gay males as an afront to their own personal ideas about what makes a "strong" man. In the political realm, we went through a period where GLBT folk were seen as a convienent scapegoat for social ills... as such a great deal of legislation was passed against us which has been an absolute bitch for us to get repealed (Remember Ammendment #2, in Colorado?)




Level -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 8:02:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

One odd thing is that UMs can pick out a gay a mile a way.   Then as they age- it becomes harder to determine.

Has anyone else noticed that?



No, I haven't. What do they do, start twitching when they spot one?

*pictures hordes of homophobes in bars, holding up kids, as gaydar detectors*




HatesParisHilton -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 8:03:40 AM)

don't sweat it Mars.  termy is a gamer boy.  he just wants some hankies from the hanky codes.




zephyrkajira -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 8:09:14 AM)

That is patently ridiculous Termy. What are you basing this on.

*giggles at Level's *gaydar detector comment*




Wolf2Bear -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 8:12:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

One odd thing is that UMs can pick out a gay a mile a way.   Then as they age- it becomes harder to determine.

Has anyone else noticed that?



No, I haven't. What do they do, start twitching when they spot one?

*pictures hordes of homophobes in bars, holding up kids, as gaydar detectors*



I have yet to understand what this gaydar is! Seems that mine is quite defective....hahahahaha




zephyrkajira -> RE: God's Gays (10/4/2009 8:15:26 AM)

Could be the batteries need to be replaced, Bear....




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