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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:17:05 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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I don't know ONE PERSON here who would forgo their own needs for a relationship to passify some polticially correct BS of not finding fat people attractive and feel they need to passify the PC concept by accepting a fat person in a relationship when they aren't attracted to the person becasue of their weight.

Here's a thought angel.  SOME of us look past the exterior and get to know the person before judging, it isn't being PC we just prefer to judge someone by who and what they are rather than just on what they look like. Steel is right, that you don't means that you are indeed shallow. That you don't like relationships with fat people is fine, honestly I don't care what your preferences are, just don't say you aren't shallow when you judge based on what you see.


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:22:24 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

If you can think of a valid reason someones weight ties into meeting your PHYSICAL NEEDS and isn't based in simple attraction then I will gladly reevaluate but if Physical attraction is the only reason then yes You are Shallow. I.E. Skin Deep, I.E. Something that has NOTHING to do with who a person is. Yes Shallow.


i'm at a loss at how this is deemed shallow, yet all the other aspects people utilize to determine if something isn't appropriate for them are considered personal choices. is it impossible to conceive that this is their personal preference as well? and while doing so, accept it is their right to determine what is suitable for them without that choice becoming supposedly negative?

i've seen numerous people articulate they have no interest in someone who smokes. yet the fervor never accompanies such statements. it is fixed in its proper context. however, this one always seems to bring in arguments that simply fail to take into account that everyone has a right to choose what's best for them.

while that might omit those who don't meet that standard, i'd wager some of our own preferences would be guilty of doing the same. but these are justifiable i suppose as long as they don't infringe upon subjects considered sacrosanct.

porcelaine


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:25:26 PM   
Musicmystery


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Steel,

To deny that physical attraction is important, or to dismiss it as shallow, is just unrealistic. It's a standard men and women use consistently, whether they're willing to admit it or not.

Live well.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/17/2009 2:26:15 PM >

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:25:45 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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To be a devils advocate, the need for your partner to be physically attractive to you, to enjoy looking at them, to enjoy seeing them naked to enjoy sex with them because they appeal to you. and if the person in question don't find over weight people attractive, then you don't meet that need of theirs.  Of course one could always say it's not a need to find your partner sexually and physically appealing, but I would say it's a pretty big thing to be able to look at someone and not think ewww  or something else un flattering, every time you see them.


Also if I was a very active person and I am not, so this is just hypothetical,  I'd need someone who could keep up with me, could do all the vigorous  activities I could do, because I wouldn't be happy with someone who didn't have the energy and stamina to keep up with me nor someone who wasn't in any kind of shape to go along.

As a fat sloth myself, I want someone who can encourage me along on weight loss and help me eat better and exercise more and become more active, and a fellow poor eater who was just as out of shape as me wouldn't fit that need. I want to better my health and better my life, by eating better* no not dieting, eating better* and exercising more.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah



I would like to ask what *NEEDS* you have that I could not attend to simply because of my weight?


Steel


< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 10/17/2009 2:33:52 PM >

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:26:26 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

If you can think of a valid reason someones weight ties into meeting your PHYSICAL NEEDS and isn't based in simple attraction then I will gladly reevaluate but if Physical attraction is the only reason then yes You are Shallow. I.E. Skin Deep, I.E. Something that has NOTHING to do with who a person is. Yes Shallow.


i'm at a loss at how this is deemed shallow, yet all the other aspects people utilize to determine if something isn't appropriate for them are considered personal choices. is it impossible to conceive that this is their personal preference as well? and while doing so, accept it is their right to determine what is suitable for them without that choice becoming supposedly negative?

i've seen numerous people articulate they have no interest in someone who smokes. yet the fervor never accompanies such statements. it is fixed in its proper context. however, this one always seems to bring in arguments that simply fail to take into account that everyone has a right to choose what's best for them.

while that might omit those who don't meet that standard, i'd wager some of our own preferences would be guilty of doing the same. but these are justifiable i suppose as long as they don't infringe upon subjects considered sacrosanct.

porcelaine



That isn't a fair and equal comparison porcelain, one is a health related example the other is judging on appearance. Sure people have the right to not want a relationship with someone who is overweight, but it cannot be compared to smoking.


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:28:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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Sorry--but overweight is absolutely a health issue too.

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:28:33 PM   
barelynangel


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So kia you are resorting to insults? You know i started looking things up until i read your second paragraph and your insults you seemed above that crap kia but i guess i was wrong -- but since i am just a lot of words, for you, i am not going to bother to post them as based on your words I am wasting my time even discussing this with you. Sorry i don't waste my time.

angel

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:28:48 PM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

when the discussion of weight turns from personal preferences to generalizations about what others may want/wish/desire.. for me... that is the point it becomes shallow.

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:33:12 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sorry--but overweight is absolutely a health issue too.


true..I think most countries have campaigns for warning parents/kids about their food habbits.

Big girls/men are to some people sexy.  Aslong people keep there health in mind..that is all fine.

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:37:45 PM   
barelynangel


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Steel, yeah for you its shallow because it means people JUDGE you on your choices. Your definition of shallow doesn't meet with what we are speaking about -- you are trying to make people WRONG or BAD or negatively shallow because they take one look at you and don't find your appearance enough to make them want to take the effort to know more of you for relationship purposes. Isn't that a little EGO and ARROGANT of you to believe ALL people must want to know you?

Yes, its always easy to call someone shallow when they reject people for a further review for relationship purposes based upon a certain concept such as appearance. But appearances count in MOST things in our lives, appearances give first impressions, people have certain things that create chemistry in them and yes many times appearances is part of that.

So you call me shallow based on my needs -- i would be interested in knowing why my NEEDS based on my list would be shallow? Are you saying YOUR needs and wants as a stranger to me should come first and be more important?

Again, are you sure you aren't just arrogant and full of ego and feel your needs, wants, and desires should be considered MORE important than someone elses? So you call them shallow? Just because you think you are all that and a box of chips and everyone should simply look beyond your appearance, (which i honestly don't know what it is so its not personal what i am saying here) and want to get to know you on a more personal level? For what its worth, there are in shape men i have rejected because their appearance somehow turned me off or didn't do anything for me. Whether its weight or something else -- APPEARANCES DO matter.

angel

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:40:56 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

i've seen numerous people articulate they have no interest in someone who smokes. yet the fervor never accompanies such statements. it is fixed in its proper context. however, this one always seems to bring in arguments that simply fail to take into account that everyone has a right to choose what's best for them.

porcelaine



I strongly disagree with this. I have lost track of the countless times I was rejected because I am a smoker. And I am quite confident that many smokers have also faced this same rejection over the course of their lifetime. Mind you that is a topic for another discussion elsewhere.

As a few have pointed out, it is other aspects of a person and not specifically their weight which forms the basis of attraction. Seems that too many fail to grasp the concept that the cause of a person being overweigh has many sources and not from over eating. Granted there is a segment of the population that are obese because they failed to learn proper eating habits and portion control in the amount of food they consume. The fact is some are predisposed to being overweigh, some have weigh isues related to medication for certain medical conditions, some people are addicted to food.



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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:45:12 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

That isn't a fair and equal comparison porcelain, one is a health related example the other is judging on appearance. Sure people have the right to not want a relationship with someone who is overweight, but it cannot be compared to smoking.


why are you attempting to equate them at all? each are born out of preference. am i supposed to tell my dominant he can't smoke in the house and i'd prefer he never did so in my presence? how realistic is that, truthfully? i'd wager he'd remind me that i was aware of his habit at the onset and could have chosen differently if it was a problem for me.

the same outlook applies to weight. i'm not assuming the person is extremely active or practices a healthy lifestyle. but they do have some idea of what is aesthetically pleasing to them. there are areas people are willing to compromise and others that are considered deal breakers. if appearance falls into the latter category i don't think ill of that individual. i believe it is better that he finds someone he has an real attraction to rather than grin and bear it instead. i can't see how that would benefit the affected party at all. nor do i believe there's anything wrong with admitting what you like either.

porcelaine


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:47:21 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Seems that too many fail to grasp the concept that the cause of a person being overweigh has many sources and not from over eating.


I don't think so, Bear. The attraction and health issues remain. As they do, incidentally, for smoking.

And as one who gave up alcohol, I absolutely am not making light of the complications of why we do things.

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:47:22 PM   
barelynangel


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Umm zephyr is it now? first of all STEEL ASKED me for my PERSONAL views so i gave them. If you have an issue with that speak to him. Secondly, your attempt to make this about me is pathetic --- go back and read what i have said. STEEL decided to ask for personal ideas. Secondly, you are lying to yourself if you sit here and believe you don't judge people. based on looks and i will tell you why, maybe you are more accepting in what physically attracts you but that doesn't make people who aren't are shallow. HELL, one of my biggest issues with MEN is MY OWN EXPECTATIONS OF MYSELF wherein if they find me attractive when i am out of shape and overweight, i don't respect them for it. So this isn't a concept of i have altering expectations of myself that i do of others. I have issues with Men who aren't selective -- shrugs, and yes, i am selective. I don't look at men under 5'10 because i feel uncomfortable with them for a relationship but i guess i am shallow for that also.

lol, you aren't ths non-shallow person as steel identifies it as --- you are simply less selective in who you choose to take time to get ti know. Whereas some people are MORE selective. But in the end, everyone is selective based upon appearance. So sorry to knock you off your look at me i am such a good person pedastal you put yourself on in order to try and make me look bad, but in the end EVERYONE is selective.

Some people are less or more than others. WHICH all this does is maximize or minimize the playing field accordingly you have to work with. You have a larger playing field due to you choose to take time for relationship seeking even if someone turns you off appearance wise, i have a smaller one due to i don't take time for relationship seeking and am perfectly content with that.

Its always so interesting when people want to make people BAD people lol in discussions like these.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/17/2009 3:02:26 PM >


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:49:00 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sorry--but overweight is absolutely a health issue too.


Of course it is, what I was talking about is people who judge simply by what they see and don't bother to find out anything about that person.


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:50:29 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Granted there is a segment of the population that are obese because they failed to learn proper eating habits and portion control in the amount of food they consume. The fact is some are predisposed to being overweigh, some have weigh isues related to medication for certain medical conditions, some people are addicted to food.


if i didn't know better i'd assume you expect the person to overlook what may be physically appealing to him in deference to the other factors cited. it will never occur unless his desire for her exceeds the importance that he places upon the preference/factor or whatever we're calling it now.

although now my curiosity is piqued. what other deal breakers would be considered shallow in the selection process?

porcelaine


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:51:58 PM   
Musicmystery


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It's a big world with many people. Sounds good as a platitude, but it's just not how things work.

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:52:42 PM   
barelynangel


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Speaking of smoking -- i find it utterly attractive when a Man smokes though i don't follow through on getting to know them for a relationship because i don't want a Man who smokes --- so i guess that makes me shallow there too.

I think its utterly ugly when a woman smokes and don't follow through with a relationship with them either -- so am i shallow here too?

Friends are different but this thread is speaking of a relationship. Sorry but i don't think we really have saints in this forum who are soo saintly that they are completely UNSELECTIVE when it comes to appearances and views of people based on same. FOr those of you who think you are, perhaps its time to check reality of how you determine who you want to get to know for relationship sake and why you choose to reject some before even getting to know them because unless you don't have a life, you probably don't have time to get to know EVERYONE first.

angel

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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:53:50 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Of course it is, what I was talking about is people who judge simply by what they see and don't bother to find out anything about that person.


would this imply that you give ample consideration to prospects regardless of age/appearance/etc? if you encountered someone outside of your preferred range, would you continue talking or simply inform them that they aren't what you're seeking instead? i don't mean this in a negative sense. i'm simply trying to understand the point you're making.

i do believe that some are more selective than others. perhaps those that fall within the confines of having physical preferences are within this category. i'm uncertain.

porcelaine


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RE: IfYouAreOverWeight - 10/17/2009 2:57:47 PM   
SteelofUtah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
However, you choose to be fat and yet you want to cry false when people don't find your attractive or want a relationship with you and call them shallow.. interesting.


Actually I never cried false I simply was pointing out the Shallowness of the OP's and apparently your own needs. If a NEED for you is that a person look a certain way yes by definition it is Shallow and Superficial. It not bad but don't fool yourself into believing that it's not Shallow because it is the DEFINITION of shallow (See Above Post)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
IF you want a woman who doesn't like fat Men to be interested in you and chooses NOT to be interested in you because she doesn't like YOUR choices for yourself, that is not being shallow, its simply you having to deal with the consequences of YOUR decision to be fat.


Actually that has never even been an issue both andi and caryn are not generally attracted to heavy men but they actually got to know me as a person before pulling me out of the rotation, you see they have substence and were not willing to write someone off over something as simple as their outward appearance and instead looked to the person INSIDE the one that matter and the one that they have both come to love. Had they cast me off because of weight it would always have been THEIR loss not mine, I have no real need for shallow and superficial in my life. I find Vapid wastes of skin who judge on the things that change like , hair, looks, weight to be wastes of time. They will spend more time watching themselves deterioriate and becomeing more and more high maintenance and I am just not willing to waste my energy on that. Instead I seek out people who what to know the things that don't change, My Integrity, My Honor, and My Capasity to Love Genuinely.


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
PEOPLE don't have to find it attractive or accepting it in everyone and not being selective as far as appearance. Its not shallow, its called i like what i like, and i don't like people who appear overweight as a choice for someone in my relationships THATS the right of people and choosing who they want to be with includes a lot of things and YEAH ONE OF THOSE IS APPEARANCE.


Again see the definition of SHALLOW.

If you don't care for the word that is fine but you should understand the definition FITS. You have chosen to exclude a whole group of people for no other reason other than looks which in the great scheme of things is so minute as to what makes a person that you exclude before getting a full understanding and that is in and of itself SHALLOW!


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Okay you asked so i will be honet based on the fact you are 100 lbs overweight. Honestly, okay you say you are 100 lbs overweight what needs would i believe could not be met -- now mind you this is based on say a first hello --- NOT SOMEONE with intimate knowledge of you that they initially decided your weight doesn't bother them -- i also would have to SEE you in order to generate a full opinion but here are some basics i could see an initial hello and meeting could generate as you are incapable because of your appearance --


On this I will call Bullshit Based on the things you state below which are judgements made without knowing the person inside I will ellaborate below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
1) you would appear to me to be a man of very little self discipline because you choose to be overweight so i would have a hard time seeing how you could meet my needs of discipline and mastery when you haven't mastered yourself ,


Shallow - Based on the fact that you have no idea about my personal discipline. I happen to be a Recovering Drug Addict of 5 years I show my personal discipline every day that I choose NOT to use drugs, and in the events that I have been confronted with drugs chose moderation and controled situations rather than the previously accepted behavior of Abuse and Excessive Use. If you base my Self Discipline based on something that I am Comfortable with you are putting your own self hating issues onto me because you don't like them in yourself. Again something that has it's base in being shallow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
2) my sexual needs would be effected because i don't find fat men app,


Shallow - I have heard this one MANY MANY MANY Times. Yet I have never had a complaint and they ALWAYS came back for seconds. This would leave to believe that your sexual needs would be met but you are unwilling to attempt because of your own shallow issues with Body Image. I could pipe my own horn on this as long as you like but I will let the fact that I have two very sexuall beings who live with me who are both equally satisfied sexually on a regular bases to again point out that the issue is based in your HEAD not in reality. You very well be sexually satisfied and those needs met on a purely CARNAL level however you aren't willing to get beyond the shallow issue of looks and body image.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
3) My respect for you would have to be analyzed because if you accept that in yourself, would you expect and accept it of me -- as i don't want a Man who would except that in me,


Shallow in a very low kind of way - First off in the event that we were in a relationship I would certainly accept you as you are NO MATTER WHAT THAT MEANS. By your own Standard any man who gets with you should leave you when you turn 40 and your body starts showing the signs of aging. Unless you plan on going with the Full Gambit of Rhinoplasty in which case I again return to Shallow. If I were with you I would accept you for WHO YOU ARE. not what you look like because LOOKS they go with time. When was the LAST time you saw a smoking HOT woman in the Old folks home?

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
4) what kind of example would you be for my children in this day and age where they are bombarded with eating healthy, weight control, and exercise, and these are just off the top of my head and not analyzed at all. So yeah, i could see how a Dom who is in shape and not overweight could very well have needs he wants met that he could see not happening with someone overweight.


Shallow and actually insulting - My son is fed a balanced meal that is based on a healthy nutritional diet. All four food groups are always met and he is given adequate time at parks and in the yard to play and run and excersize. He gets a full nights sleep and is is only offered food during meal times and if he is hungry between meal times he gets apples or fruit and that is all. Just because I am Large does not mean I am deadset on the rest of the world being large and what you suggest in the above is not only insulting it is abusive. I would raise ANY child to live a HEALTHY lifestyle but I refuse to starve a child and I let a child eat until they are done or the plate is clean and the postions they get are approproiate for age. If they Struggle with weight and they do not like it then I will seek out nutritionalists or study up on my own baring being able to afford it.

In all things I think it would be important to understand that just because someone is raised with someone who is a certain way does not mean they will be that way. This is proven time and time again when Gay couples have perfectly healthy and well adjusted Hetrosexual children.

Or do you think that Homosexuals train thier kids to be Gay? I ask because that is basically what you are afraid I will do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
YOu want to make it WRONG for people to NOT want to find you appealing just because you are happy obese. Sorry it doesn't work like that, if you want to make people shallow for not finding you appealing due to your weight and your CHOICE to be that way, then they are allowed to find you lazy and not capable of meeting their needs for the same reasons. You can't have it both ways. You can't say they can't judge me and yet you judge them beause they don't agree with you.


Actually I am just telling you that to say NEEDS are not being met because of someone's looks you are SHALLOW (Again SEE THE DEFINITION)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
I don't know ONE PERSON here who would forgo their own needs for a relationship to passify some polticially correct BS of not finding fat people attractive and feel they need to passify the PC concept by accepting a fat person in a relationship when they aren't attracted to the person becasue of their weight. THAT is simply BS and its a ploy many fat people use to try and make those who don't want them for a relationship to be the BAD person instead of simply a person with different wants, needs and desires.


And again I ask the question WHAT NEEDS are not able to be MET from a Persons LOOKS? What Needs that aren't superficial and SHALLOW!!

It looks like you have an issue with being called shallow. You may want to just own what you are. Eeither show me how you AREN'T the definition that I offered or accept that you are just shallow in your choices. Mind you shallow is not a NEGATIVE word it is just a word that you see negatively.

Again I suggest you own who you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Oh and that's not me, its an avatar, however, people who know me say she does look like me when i was a slave lol. Ahh memories. I am not as that picture is anymore, but i am hoping to be by next year lol or at least a 40 year old version of same.


I find this most interesting. You comment about the BS Fat People Ploy, and then you use an Image that isn't you. So we can add Vain as well.

Steel

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