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Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 4:46:46 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Well, last night was a night to remember - our very own homegrown fascist Mr Nick Griffin, leader of the British National Party, made his first appearance on BBC Question Time, alongside what one must say may have been a specially picked panel of other guests (not one of them falling into the description "British" as the BNP holds it).

There had been fears - and there still are in some quarters - that this appearance might have become a gift to the BNP, legitimising them as part of the everyday political discourse of the UK.

Instead, my impression is that we got what we wanted - or what I wanted from it at least - the exposure of Mr Griffin as the deceitful, dissembling fool he is, by a panel of guests easily able to tear him to shreds in front of not only the studio audience but before the nation, most of which I would guess was watching at home. Mr Griffin throughout appeared nervous, uncomfortable and out of place.

The only thing I picked up on was that the other guests on the panel referred to him for the most part as "Nick"; I felt this expressed a level of informality suggestive of colleagues together and that this was regrettable.

What do other Brits think?

E

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 5:12:23 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I think the oaf's probably going to be able to play the victim over the booing from the audience and the protestors outside, and the people who actually vote for the BNP aren't going to care how badly he came across, as they wouldn't be voting for the cunt's party in the first place if they cared that he was an idiot with no policies.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 5:42:44 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I fear that as to the protestors outside, they as usual with these antics have demonstrated Nick Griffin to be a far more reasonable, balanced and appealing sort than they appear to be.

As for those voting BNP I believe it is wrong to paint them all as supporters of the core policies of the party. It rather seems to me that New Labour having abandoned the working classes in favour of the middle class vote, believing (as was suggested on This Week last night following the programme), that the working classes have nowhere else to go but New Labour, there has opened a chasm into which the BNP has seeped, taking advantage of the situation for a substantial part of the population left behind as the wealth gap widens and more interest appears to be shown for the elite than the ordinary person.

This chasm is not one which can be bridged by platitudes nor by condemnation of those making what are protest votes. Rather it requires an entire refocusing of attention to the core interests of the British people (all of them I would add) instead of a continued focus on the core interests of multinational business and especially finance.

Take for example the housing situation. We need houses, desperately. At the moment we cant produce those houses however - and for no other reason than the shortage of supply currently keeps the value of houses high. This is vital for multinational finance since so much of the supposed inherent worth of the UK is tied up in houses, against which massive credit is secured which then drives the consumer spending that provides the other support for the economy as a whole. Those voting BNP in part are protesting about this situation - they have no home or their children have no chance of a home or their grandchildren have no chance of a home - that the immigration issue then becomes the default supposed reason for this shortage, because government ministers and the political elite as a whole, as tied in as they are to the City cannot talk about the true reason - plays into the hands of the BNP.

Nick Griffin is right in principle about putting the British people first - however stupidly and wrongly and dangerously he expresses it - because until the political elite focus on that as their primary motivation in policy with other interests coming second, the chasm will only widen along with the wealth gap and the disconnect from moderate politics that has been growing, leading to increased sympathy for the BNP position.

E

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 5:49:59 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		He's playing victim already...
I particularly love the line about London not being a British city anymore.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 5:56:09 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He's playing victim already...
I particularly love the line about London not being a British city anymore.


Apparently, London was a lot cooler in the days of Jack the Ripper  .

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:00:59 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Your link doesnt work by the way but thanks for trying!

My feeling is that he can play the victim all he wants over last night - what came out last night was so damaging to him personally that I dont think he has anywhere else to go - millions saw him for what he is.

Meanwhile those in his party would have watched too I'm sure and seen his poor performance; I would not be at all surprised if Nick Griffin were to be replaced as leader in due course and be forced to form a new party, or if he were to find a substantial proportion of his members defecting to some new incarnation of fascism, so dissipating the influence of all concerned rapidly. Theyre a fractious and fratricidal lot on the right - every one of them has a Hitler complex and believes himself to be "the one".

One might consider sympathy for Griffin more in the context of dealing with his own at this stage, rather than anything that happened last night.

E

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:08:05 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He's playing victim already...
I particularly love the line about London not being a British city anymore.


Apparently, London was a lot cooler in the days of Jack the Ripper  .

It was full of immigrants back then as well: if anything more so than it is now. They just tended to be different groups and a lot more of them were caucasians. People were whining about East European jews and the irish mostly back then, I think.

LE: sorry about that, `I'll see if I can find the article again. There's a load of stuff about griffin on the Grauniad's web page at the moment.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:11:03 AM   
XtremeDomUk


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Status: offline 		Whatever one thinks of the man's politics (and I do not approve of them), I would defend to the end his right to express them. I was disappointed by the programme for several reasons. Firstly was the disproportionate amount of time devoted to discussing the BNP and Nick Griffin, rather than the issues of the day. The national postal strike had just started and was not even discussed. Secondly by the fact that Dimbleby failed totally in his role as chair and joined the attacks on Griffin. Thirdly that no-one chose to condem the people outside who were injuring police officers.
Those of us who belong to this 'lifestyle' are seen as an extreme minority by many, but this very forum proves that we have the uncensored freedom to discuss our views. The BNP is not a proscribed organisation and should have the same freedom.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:14:22 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It was full of immigrants back then as well: if anything more so than it is now. They just tended to be different groups and a lot more of them were caucasians. People were whining about East European jews and the irish mostly back then, I think.



I know, and xenophobia was rampant then. Although how "caucasian" applies to anybody has always eluded me.



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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:15:38 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: XtremeDomUk

The BNP is not a proscribed organisation and should have the same freedom.



Nobody here has argued otherwise.

However, there are laws in the U.K. that proscribe the encouragement of hatred, so Griffin had better watched out for his arse.


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:16:26 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Er, so what was Griffin doing on QT if he wasn't discussing his views? He's fond of insisting that he's being denied media access, but that's a load of crap. You'll note that in the link below (assuming it works this time) he's bleating to Sky News about being set up by the Beeb.

Here it is again, E
(And now it's working.)

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 10/23/2009 6:18:22 AM >

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:22:14 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: XtremeDomUk

The BNP is not a proscribed organisation and should have the same freedom.



Nobody here has argued otherwise.

However, there are laws in the U.K. that proscribe the encouragement of hatred, so Griffin had better watched out for his arse.


In fact, the BNP's constitution (which insists that only "Aryans" are eligible to join) is technically illegal under British law. The Equality and Human Rights Commission have finally noticed this and started taking action about it.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:24:39 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Absolutely X! He must have the right to express himself and his views, that goes without saying, and it would have been wrong for the BBC to change policy on who may be invited and wrong for any other agency to try to censor him or prevent his appearing according to the established policy. Equally I agree it was wrong for the chair to become as involved as it did in participation with the panel. However I believe it was inevitable in the circumstances for the programme to be dominated as it was by the issues raised by Griffin's presence on the panel.

Equally, we have the right to judge him on his conduct and his views. Now, donning my fire resistant overalls, I would venture to say that Nick Griffin and the BNP may just be exactly what this country needs - not because of his special skills (if any) or the wrong headed policies he espouses, but as a catalyst to get things onto a whole new track by forcing the mainstream to pay attention to those they have left behind as redundant to their electoral needs.

My judgment on him from last night is that he was well out of his depth and was evasive to the point of demonstrating a deceitful and arrogant nature that is at best unappealing. As to what he said - what little there was of it in his dissembly - it was either absurd or (again) evasive such that we might infer what he believes and what his party truly believes, from that which was dodged or else patently formulated to deceive. As such, I believe the whole demonstration was a poor one for old Nick and for the BNP as a whole, and that the majority of the population would concur in that belief.

This, finally, is what I have called for over some time now - to try to censor these people, to try to ban them and exclude them, is not only wrong from the point of view of free speech, but also ridiculous in that they have only progressed because of such exclusion in the past; here they were exposed to full public debate and found wanting.

E

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:24:53 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Whining against "bias" and unfair treatment at the hands of the media has become a staple argument of the extreme right. The American right is doing the very same thing at the moment, although how I wish there was a program such as "Question Time" in America!

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:29:04 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		It's interesting that over the whole of the programme the postal strike wasn't mentioned once, isn't it? One almost wonders if Griffin wasn't invited along purely to make sure that any actual stories in the news didn't get mentioned.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:29:21 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		What disappointed me about the programme, was it's focus on griffins racism and not asking the questions that I wanted to see his views on - like the expenses' row, recession, afghanistan, strikes, fathers rights and paternity issues etc.  In that sense, the programme and the people asking the questions should have stuck to what was relevant instead of making it all about how racist the BNP is.  We all know that already so I would have much prefered seeing whether he stumbled at genuine questions rather than focus on simply racism.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/23/2009 6:31:36 AM >

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:29:32 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
In fact, the BNP's constitution (which insists that only "Aryans" are eligible to join) is technically illegal under British law. The Equality and Human Rights Commission have finally noticed this and started taking action about it.


Hilarious, especially considering Griffin's physique - he looks suspiciously Norman to me  .

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:31:26 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
One almost wonders if Griffin wasn't invited along purely to make sure that any actual stories in the news didn't get mentioned.


Now now, mind that you don't elaborate on a conspiracy theory of your own - there's been quite enough of that already  .

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:32:12 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		They will have to abandon that, it seems. Sadly, I doubt that too many blacks or Asians will want to join after last night's performance, even after it does become possible.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:33:25 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
In fact, the BNP's constitution (which insists that only "Aryans" are eligible to join) is technically illegal under British law. The Equality and Human Rights Commission have finally noticed this and started taking action about it.


Hilarious, especially considering Griffin's physique - he looks suspiciously Norman to me  .


Good point KS - it all went downhill in 1066! Deport the Normans!

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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