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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:07:14 PM   
NihilusZero


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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

Moving on, how do cues (my apologies for the earlier spelling errors) make your behavior out of control.

Either a person's cues are natural (subconscious, not controlled) and that's why the notion of being able to decipher them so as to interpret someone's D/s proclivity seems potentially plausible...

...or their cues are forced, acted or role-played (controlled) in which case there's no way to determine anything based on those cues (except , perhaps, how good an actor an individual is).


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:07:16 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at what someone is like over TIME ...on any * dom/sub* trail.....from any subtle or non-subtle cues. It's unlikely that anyone that didn't know me on a fairly substantial timescale, would be able to imagine that I've been owned for years.

I'm sure there are clues and indications that *could* be read........but as LaTigresse mentioned ..... it depends on who's reading them.

Also.... what I'm like in the bedroom really only relates to who I'm in the bedroom with at any given time.

agirl



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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:16:08 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline 		My apologies to the people behind those of the 565 views who thought it might be interesting to discuss what they notice about people. I was hoping that, in the absence of a more solid answer, the people who get "hunches" would come forward and that maybe we could help each other to figure out where those "hunches"come from.

I did know that the thought that we are not all creatures of complete spontaneity was upsetting to some. The things you learn in Personality 101, that often people want to act consistently and even at times do things that are similar to others who have a similar trait or disposition do not appeal to everyone. I posted anyway. I knew it was a long shot to think the people who don't find that to be true or interesting would just not be interested in posting. Messege me with ideas.

I will let this thread become whatever the people who had no desire to discuss the topic want it to become. Hate away...

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:29:01 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline 		OK. And someone on the first or second page of this post I explained that I am not looking to "act" and insert false behaviors. I'd just like to know what aspects of who I already am and what I do speak to the dominant mind. (and I'm curious about the reverse as well). 
(The fact that I have my gaurd up, and that some find this to be dishonest in a way is not an unfair opinion, but is also something I am not looking to talk about in this thread unless it's tied to the topic at hand.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

Moving on, how do cues (my apologies for the earlier spelling errors) make your behavior out of control.

Either a person's cues are natural (subconscious, not controlled) and that's why the notion of being able to decipher them so as to interpret someone's D/s proclivity seems potentially plausible...

...or their cues are forced, acted or role-played (controlled) in which case there's no way to determine anything based on those cues (except , perhaps, how good an actor an individual is).


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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:40:33 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

My apologies to the people behind those of the 565 views who thought it might be interesting to discuss what they notice about people. I was hoping that, in the absence of a more solid answer, the people who get "hunches" would come forward and that maybe we could help each other to figure out where those "hunches"come from.

I did know that the thought that we are not all creatures of complete spontaneity was upsetting to some. The things you learn in Personality 101, that often people want to act consistently and even at times do things that are similar to others who have a similar trait or disposition do not appeal to everyone. I posted anyway. I knew it was a long shot to think the people who don't find that to be true or interesting would just not be interested in posting. Messege me with ideas.

I will let this thread become whatever the people who had no desire to discuss the topic want it to become. Hate away...


Well, I could give a few descriptives I perceive about you, based upon your words here. However, they would not be kind, possibly incorrect........ and Madame Eleven would not approve.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:40:50 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

So, you're not interested in reliable results? If you were just asking in what ways guessing can be done, you could have just said as much.

I prefer 20 sided dice.


I'm don't think that the results will be more reliable than anything else in life, and yes, sometimes my life does feel like i'm tossing 20-sided dice. I especially don't think I would take anyone's ideas and turn them into an instruction manual. I would do what I do with most information... Put it in the back of my head and keep my eyes open and see if it proves useful... Maybe one day share that info with someone who cares if I found it to be useful.
Why was it so terrible to ask?

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:44:45 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

OK. And someone on the first or second page of this post I explained that I am not looking to "act" and insert false behaviors. I'd just like to know what aspects of who I already am and what I do speak to the dominant mind. (and I'm curious about the reverse as well). 
(The fact that I have my gaurd up, and that some find this to be dishonest in a way is not an unfair opinion, but is also something I am not looking to talk about in this thread unless it's tied to the topic at hand.)


There is a thread on the general forum where there is currently a discussion on what submission is.
Submission is just that.  To submit.  That means to acquiese to anothers authority.  Now that authority might want the s-type to be strong and make decisions.  Might even desire them to top another.  If that is the case, then they will want to find a s-type with these traits or aspects.
Now another dominant authority may require a soft and meek s-type.  One who is quiet and whom requires decisions to be made.  They would do well to chose that type of person, a person who displays such actions and behaviours.

In other words, one cannot define submission by the acts or ways a person behaves because submission simply means (at the risk of repeating myself) to submit.  The personality of the person - as I said in the other thread you are running - is not the indicator or their orientation.  For example, I read your posts and automatically assumed - incorrectly - that you were a new dominant.  Now that is only words I am working with.  And obviously I was incorrect.   But until I peeked your profile, your personality that you 'gave over' here portrayed something that was subjective to me.  To another person or a dominant type, the aspects of who you are may be exactly what they want or see totally differently.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:55:36 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		~FR~

Yep, and I can stripe a candy, too...

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 12:59:41 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline 		Please explain why my words are offensive to you.

Here is an analogy-
There are a ton of people in the world who would look at the things that turn me on and call them abuse. They would call it sick. I respect the fact that it doesn't work that way for them. I wouldn't buy them nipple clamps and I would also decide that I would prefer not to discuss it with them any longer. So, I look for a subset of people who are OK with what I believe, and I talk to them about it and I chose not to invite some of my friends in on these discussions because its not for them.
Is it wrong to ask the people who want to rant about abuse to find another outlet? It's hard to get down to the subject of what you like to be spanked with when every other post comes from someone telling you that you're delusional to think it's OK to let someone hit you.

Now, moving on to what I just wrote. Why is it offense to you?
Why is it bothersome to you that I am seeking answers from people who think that people can be read to a certain degree?



quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

My apologies to the people behind those of the 565 views who thought it might be interesting to discuss what they notice about people. I was hoping that, in the absence of a more solid answer, the people who get "hunches" would come forward and that maybe we could help each other to figure out where those "hunches"come from.

I did know that the thought that we are not all creatures of complete spontaneity was upsetting to some. The things you learn in Personality 101, that often people want to act consistently and even at times do things that are similar to others who have a similar trait or disposition do not appeal to everyone. I posted anyway. I knew it was a long shot to think the people who don't find that to be true or interesting would just not be interested in posting. Messege me with ideas.

I will let this thread become whatever the people who had no desire to discuss the topic want it to become. Hate away...


Well, I could give a few descriptives I perceive about you, based upon your words here. However, they would not be kind, possibly incorrect........ and Madame Eleven would not approve.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 1:06:16 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I did not say they were offensive to me. Quite impossible. I simply stated that your words, the tone I perceived from your words, is not flattering to you.

You've allowed people with points of view that are different to yours to upset you. You've appeared to take offense to them. I envision a foot stomping petulant spoilt child that is upset she did not get the reaction she wanted.

So no, I am not offended at all......simply amused.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to PainfullyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 1:24:33 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

I did know that the thought that we are not all creatures of complete spontaneity was upsetting to some. The things you learn in Personality 101, that often people want to act consistently and even at times do things that are similar to others who have a similar trait or disposition do not appeal to everyone. I posted anyway. I knew it was a long shot to think the people who don't find that to be true or interesting would just not be interested in posting. Messege me with ideas.

A self-martyrdom appeal to emotion + an underlying argumentum ad hominem. Impressive use of logical fallacies.

Does it occur to you that the dissenting comments by anyone here may come from a genuine logical standpoint rather than the emotional defensiveness you want to pretend they are?

I am not remotely upset by the fact that humans are, for the most part, predictable variable organic machines. My concern is your mis-correlation between personality types (and their byproducts) to the role someone would play in a personal relationship. Your tone presumes this (to a degree better than chance plus wiggle room) to be factual. It suggests that how your thread title should be read is not "Can you spot a sub?", but "Can you spot a sub?".

In which case, your aversion to contrary views isn't entirely unfounded (since the questions were meant only for a select audience). However, for clarification, you should have, instead, asked:

"While determining if a sub can be "spotted" by idiosyncrasies may be functionally useless on a case by base basis and, furthermore, not necessarily reliable any more than varying degrees beyond chance, for those of you who do believe that you can divine someone's relationship preferences based on other social quirks, how do you think you do it?"

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/4/2009 1:34:41 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to PainfullyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 1:55:52 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Does it occur to you that the dissenting comments by anyone here may come from a genuine logical standpoint rather than the emotional defensiveness you want to pretend they are?

My concern is your mis-correlation between personality types (and their byproducts) to the role someone would play in a personal relationship.


Sure. It's occured to me. It's the reason I posted an article and said that I would love to discuss it in another thread. It's my fault that my sarcasm has over-shadowed my sincerity. It happens when you mix the two and I should know better.

I also recently summed up the thread and stated something very similiar to what you call my "mis-correlation" and so ou will see I have not drawn any solid conclusions at this point.

LT, I have allowed myself to become upset. Again, more because I would like those who might have an opinion to feel comfortable speaking up. The disagreement itself is not the issue. I can't conclude that there is no connection if I think the people who might see one would rather avoid the thread. You're right though. Throwing a fit doesn't help to accomplish that. Again, that's my fault.

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 1:57:07 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		After some interaction, in a relaxed environment, I am able to read most people and identify many of their personality traits. This includes those with a submissive trait. Since I am not that involved into BDSM, and have not been involved in the local scene, for over 15 years, how else am I going to find a slave? That is also how I met my current property, in a vanilla setting, and getting to know her in a relaxed environment that was not BDSM in nature.

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 2:07:29 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I think the best we would be able to get is to determine based on the interact of someone to their partner.

It's taken me a while to realize, but there is a stark difference between "submissive" (adjective) and "submissive" (noun) and many submissives are not necessarily socially/emotionally submissive.

For instance, do a small test: set the CM home page search for submissives in any state and tally up how many, based on the tone of their profiles (more confrontational vs. more yielding) actually exude submissiveness. I may do this later, though I need to run to work now.

So, if we're asking if you can tell if someone is "submissive" (adjective), then the answer is obviously: yes (we're just looking for traits that are submissive in nature). Trying to determine if someone is a submissive (noun) using the same parameters gets really difficult, though.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/4/2009 2:08:19 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 2:20:02 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
That is also how I met my current property, in a vanilla setting, and getting to know her in a relaxed environment that was not BDSM in nature.


That's interersting. Now tell me, please, did you see that she had the potential to be a submissive and then subsequently train her, or had she already been involved in bdsm?

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 4:02:04 PM   
SirRussellP


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline 		Well since I was chasing submissives long before the internet or most area's having munches and the such I had to spot submissives on my own. 

Now maybe I just talked a lot of women into trusting me but I do think my subdar was working for me.  Quite a few ladies said that they didn't know before me that they were submissive. 

Put that into perspective it was also the time of Women's Lib, which I supported then and now, so again I personally think I could and did spot it in them.  Took time to study them, approach them, date them, get to know them and finally test them.

Also I have talked with subs that say they can tell when their dealing with a Dom.  Now I suppose alpha males do stand out some but again no way for me to tell.

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 4:06:33 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
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quote:

ORIGINAL: soul2share

Not hard to answer at all......if you were to see me at work or on the outside, you'd never know I was submissive in nature.  I am a very type A person who has been living on my own for too many years to defer to anyone in public.  There is no way anyone would ever guess my nature if they were looking at my mannerisms.


I would say that's more common than not...HOWEVER...I've been able to pick out subs at work. In my experience they usually are the most organized and put together with razor sharp appearance in a professional environment, prompt and attentive, and thrive on praise. Once I've honed in on one or more of these traits I then get to know them as a person.
Other times you just stumble upon the answer to your suspiscions. I suspected our receptionist was owned based on her constant choice of choker necklaces. One day in particular she was in tears about one getting snagged and literally breaking off her neck. She sobbed "Sir will be so mad" as I stopped to help her. It was quiet enough that no one else noticed and loud enough that I stopped in my tracks. I then very quietly sent her to clean up and figured out how to rig a quick repair. As I'm putting the necklace back on her and instructing her how to have him take it back off I'm reminding her that it's a symbol of her attachment not the bond itself. At that exact moment the beautiful suspected male sub comes along and chimes in that his bracelet I'd never paid attention to was what reminds him, not what drives him...I almost fainted. Apparently they both knew about the other and had both suspected me of being dominant but were too afraid to ask. The holiday party 2 weeks later was very interesting playing spot the D/s couple as apparently my company was more kinky than I'd ever imagined.

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Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 4:09:12 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:


To look at me and talk to me about normal things, you would never guess i am a sub. my job and responsibilities require me to have a "Dominant personality" but i am not Dominant. Makes sense? lol

Makes total sense my favorite flavor of subs are usually high powered corporate bad asses by day and kinky little frog boys by night :)   

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 4:57:28 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		This thread made got me thinking. I realized that my Owner must have seen something in me that told him I was a slave so I asked him what it was. He basically said I looked like his "dream girl."  I was wearing red lipstick and no bra (tee hee.) I'm petite with small breasts and that's what he likes. So he didn't really care if I was submissive or a slave or whatever. He just wanted me and wanted to own me because that's how he likes his relationships to be. Lucky for him I was into it too! Maybe I subconsciously saw something in him and he subconsciously saw something in me but to ask us to pin point what it was would be hard because it was unintentional.

So I guess my answer is: the way to spot a sub is they always wear red lip stick and no bra ;-)

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RE: Can you spot a sub? - 11/4/2009 5:00:51 PM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline 		Wow! That's a good story!

Hmm.. maybe rather than finding subs or doms I can use the site to find employees. (That is a joke and a compliment by the way, before I get 900 stories about disorganized subs. I'm just saying the ones who have talked about their jobs so far sound very dedicated.)

If you're comfortable saying, Im curious to know what industry you work in.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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