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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/12/2009 9:19:43 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja


That is most likely it...
she does not give and he only gives to get

i have to say out of the two i think she is more at fault... he might be going about it wrong, but at least he is trying while she is just doing nothing...

So Angeldmort... if you see someone twisting themselves about and jumping through hoops to get your attention and you think they are only doing that for their own bit of fun and you do not like that because you want them only if they behave differently... and you are supposed to be the Dominant partner, don't you think it is a bit helpful if you would be so kind as to tell them what they are doing wrong? and how they should behave instead? so that you will get properly turned on? or are you saying that indeed subs should be mindreaders?

I personally think it is a totally unhealthy attitude to withold sex from a partner because you think they are doing something wrong and then not telling them what it is they do wrong... it smacks of insecurity and lack of imagination and i think it is a stupid stupid power game which will end badly eventually.

I know it does not help to lay blame,
Both of them opening up is probably the only thing that will help

ETA the flip floppy attitude comes from desperation and frustration, if you try and try and try and seem to bang your head against a brick wall and you get no help or hint or direction as to how you might change things to get a better result you end up angry and resentful and very insecure and flip floppy...
at least flip floppy is still sort of movable and bendy, while a block of concrete is just an unmovable boring grey mass... the only thing for that is to go at it with hammer and chissel and forcefully break it down... is that how to open her?


We can only speculate based on what we know from what he tells us.  But I believe there's a lot of reason to be positive in a relationship like this - that the woman CAN enjoy forms of actual dominance -- if the two people can start from scratch:

1. Total honesty and transparency and communication
2. Husband agrees and diligently takes all passive aggressive behaviors off the table, all "helping" her in the forms of lists, toy purchases, "watch this porno with me" and other things that may put pressure on her to perform a certain way
3. NO CHEATING - not even 'cyber submission' to another woman or jerking off to femdom porn
4. Husband lets her go at her pace, whether it's 1 "domination session" a month or whatever she feels up to.

In a relationship like the one in the OP, the wife has a very clear idea of what kind of kinks he has, she's very aware of S&M and dominance and is probably exhausted even thinking of having to do x, y and z to make him happy - it's just another set of chores, and it's not exciting.  The easy way out is to deny sex or play the princess and sit back and enjoy and maybe be standoffish.  Women pushed into a corner who "fake" that they like/tolerate S&M, if they have a working knowledge of it, choose the path of least resistance and, least possibility of failure and least amount of work:  Smile, and deny, and say/do nothing. As appropriate, encourage (in a cool way) fawning types of behavior, and shut off nurturing.  He wanted dominance, he got it - the only way she knows how to do it, and the only way she finds she's able to swallow, when she compares herself to what she sees in porn, hears about his fantasies or thinks he wants.

That's one way I see it.

Submissive men need to know that nearly ALL women, and I would say many/most femdoms, will ultimately enjoy "their man's response, emotional presence and way he reacts to" dominant acts; they do NOT enjoy the acts for the acts themselves.  The acts are merely a list of things "to do" - with varying levels of discomfort/unease/fear of failure/or even "eww, disgusting" reactions.  Meanwhile the men see the fetishes as a list of acts that are hot, often with the woman as an interchangeable figure of fantasy - but, they want it on their terms, free and hopefully a lot.

In order to ever "convert" the woman into someone who enjoys dominance, he has to allow her to dictate the pace, the acts and know that she's going to build her perception of it based on how he reacts to it. Instant groveling worm?  Probably going to turn her off.  Mr. Stoic, No Emotion Guy?  Same.  How about the hinter/pusher?  She's going to feel cornered and pressured.  So what's the best reaction?  Bring out the side of you that she finds MOST attractive through your surrender.  Most women enjoy feeling sexy and powerful to a man they physically find attractive; most women enjoy feeling slightly intimidating and mysterious (even if it's a departure for them), most women enjoy knowing/seeing that a man can be humbled for her. But he has to be believable, honorable and sexy about it.

If she's not having fun, she won't ever want to go back to it; the tougher nut to crack is the woman who is confident in her sexual position, knows what S&M is, and has learned to fake it so she can put the least amount of effort into it to shut him up.  Because she has no reason to ever really give it a shot and find out how much fun it really can be.

Akasha


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(in reply to ranja)
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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/12/2009 9:40:28 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		AAkasha... i think this is sound advice even if it turns out she'd rather be a sub...
indeed she needs to have fun doing it... he has to find a way to get her to like things again... but more so she has to be open to find that bit of fun herself somehow.

... maybe when she asks "where did the rubbing go?" he should say "mmmmmmmmmmmmm, did you like that hunny? do you want some more of that?"
and maybe he should not let her cum in 5 to 10 minutes but keep her on edge until she wants him back?

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/13/2009 2:20:48 PM   
angeldmort


Posts: 54
Joined: 4/19/2009
Status: offline 		"... maybe when she asks "where did the rubbing go?" he should say "mmmmmmmmmmmmm, did you like that hunny? do you want some more of that?"
and maybe he should not let her cum in 5 to 10 minutes but keep her on edge until she wants him back?"

That is abosultely Topping behavior. Almost word for word a script from The Topping Book. Making her ask for pleasure, orgasm control, based on a requirement that he get what he wants from giving her pleasure, so it's still not honestly motivated - just more manipulation.


(in reply to ranja)
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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 3:38:07 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		and what is she doing when she asks "where did the rubbing go?"
that seems to me an attempt to manipulate him into continuing the rubbing
his response, what ever it is, should be taken serious aswell

if she does not un-block herself and give in to him a bit, then no amount of rubbing will ever warm her enough... and that is a bleak outlook, especially since they have young children and at present can still fix things as far as he is concerned... i think she should put a bit of effort in and try to cooperate

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 5:40:24 AM   
WarKirby


Posts: 71
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		Just a little random advice. Try being submissive in ways that aren't overtly sexual. Make her tea, wash the dishes, make her life easier in any way you can.

Doing that will probably make her far more receptive to sexual activity



Edit: Not addressed to aakasha, just to the OP. apologies for the mistake


< Message edited by WarKirby -- 11/14/2009 5:58:02 AM >

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 5:51:55 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
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Status: offline 		Someone doing that for me would be very sweet. But it wouldnt make me want to dominate him in bed. Have to bethe agressor would frustrate me if I had to do it all the time. So doing service things and helping out does not necessarily transfer. Would you be able to be changed from bi to straight or to all gay?

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 5:58:51 AM   
WarKirby


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Would you be able to be changed from bi to straight or to all gay?


Was this adressed to me or the OP?

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 6:03:28 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WarKirby

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Would you be able to be changed from bi to straight or to all gay?


Was this adressed to me or the OP?



Respectfully, to you. You said to bring her tea and do the dishes. Like making life easier would not automatically translate. I am submissive. I would love to have those things done but thats not going to make me want to cuff you and flog you in the bedroom.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 11/14/2009 6:06:44 AM >

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 6:11:09 AM   
WarKirby


Posts: 71
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarKirby

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Would you be able to be changed from bi to straight or to all gay?


Was this adressed to me or the OP?



Respectfully, to you. You said to bring her tea and do the dishes. Like making life easier would not automatically translate. I am submissive. I would love to have those things done but thats not going to make me want to cuff you and flog you in the bedroom.


This is very true. But as a female, regardless of Top/bottom status, you have more interest in people who see you as something beyond a sex object, yes?

Things the OP mentions - massages, oral sex, etc, while certainly pleasing to the reciever, are inherently sexual things that are also pleasing to the giver if they're so inclined. It's easy to construe that he could just be doing it to get off, and not actually caring about her much. Showing willingness to serve in other, nonsexual ways, would show that he cares about her as more than just a badroom kink in that manner.

of course, perhaps he doesn't. I know there are many who like to keep kink exclusively in the bedroom. But then, being nice and considerate of others isn't necessarily a submissive trait.

Also, I only said "sexual activity" not "being dominant". Even in a vanilla relationshi, being caring and considerate of one's partner is generally more likely to make them attracted to you. sex 4 times a month generally indicates something might be wrong. It could be that she's simply happy with that, or it could also be that she doesn't find her husband so attractive anymore.

Also, what was with the question about bisexuality. It seems odd. I like both genders, and everything inbetween .Not sure why I'd want to limit myself to just one extreme end of the spectrum..


< Message edited by WarKirby -- 11/14/2009 6:14:36 AM >

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 6:17:30 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		All peoples idea come from a good place to the O.P. But you cant change peoples orientation. I acted in control for years with a very passive man. I couldnt even hug him hard because he is fragile and skinny with broken bones. I was always having to hold back but also I longed for more aggression but never got it. Having to act that way led me to discovering my submission. Its very likely she could get fed up and go the other way if thats her nature.

You got with a nilla. Either she has the potential and is interested, or you push and lose her, or you find a way to participate in it another way.

Warkirby,
The bisexual question was, I went to your profile to see what your orientation was before I said,"Could you go from straight to gay"? So after reading yours, I worded it the way I did.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 11/14/2009 6:20:14 AM >

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(in reply to WarKirby)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 6:33:17 AM   
WarKirby


Posts: 71
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		A good point. you can't change who people are. But you can change their present mood

quote:

As in many marriages, my Wife calls the shots about the frequency of sex in our bedroom. Most of the time She only wants to have sex with me three or four times a month. We're both very busy with our own separate businesses, our kids, our farm, sport and hobby commitments which often leave her tired, irritable and far from 'in the mood' at the end of the day.


It sounds like she's not in the mood due to being tired and irritable. Making her less so probably won't make her want to wear a strapon, but it might at least make her more open to sexual activity, of the "normal" kind. The lack of which seems to be part of the problem here.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 6:50:19 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarKirby

A good point. you can't change who people are. But you can change their present mood

quote:

As in many marriages, my Wife calls the shots about the frequency of sex in our bedroom. Most of the time She only wants to have sex with me three or four times a month. We're both very busy with our own separate businesses, our kids, our farm, sport and hobby commitments which often leave her tired, irritable and far from 'in the mood' at the end of the day.


It sounds like she's not in the mood due to being tired and irritable. Making her less so probably won't make her want to wear a strapon, but it might at least make her more open to sexual activity, of the "normal" kind. The lack of which seems to be part of the problem here.



Thats a pretty normal sex life. Mine was 5 or 6 times a year.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to WarKirby)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 8:04:08 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Mine went down from lovely and regular to once a week with effort, to once a month reluctantly, to 4 or 5 times a year as awkward as possible...
i think the op used to have no problems with his missus but now he has and their sexual relations have gone down in frequency and it sounds like the quality is suffering aswell
i don't think the problem is unsolvable, it might even right itself miraculously by itself, but it also pays to make an effort to keep things healthy and i hope this thread is of some use to them 

< Message edited by ranja -- 11/14/2009 8:11:43 AM >

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 2:28:25 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I will add as a mother that the lack of sex and the total disregard of my needs didn't help the marriage but what precipatated the divorce was that he was a bad father. If you helped bring them into the world, you need to give time to them. The marriages I know that are the strongest are the ones where the fathers are actively involved with their children.

Coach basketball games, attend all dance recitals, know who their best friends are, know when they need new shoes and go buy them. Women who are married to nice guys that are bad fathers don't stay with them. Go to work early so you can come home and help with math homework before bedtime. Don't make sexual judgments on your daughters, that they're too fat to get a boyfriend. Don't humiliate a shy son, we will remember and it will kill our love for you when you deliberately hurt your own children.

We judge you on your parenting skills. By saying you're too busy to spend any time with your children, you fail miserably.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 11/14/2009 2:29:49 PM >

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/14/2009 3:37:15 PM   
Venatrix


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Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		I'm going to assume that your comments are directed to someone else - I don't have children.  I do assure you, however, that my parenting skills in reference to my cat are top notch.

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/15/2009 1:25:58 AM   
angeldmort


Posts: 54
Joined: 4/19/2009
Status: offline 		No, come on... cats don't count.
Kids should be handled more like subs.
My cat ABSOLUTELY feels that I'm her bitch.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/15/2009 5:58:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Sorry Venatrix, forgot the FR.

It was directed at the op who said he works too much to do any child care. As though him spending time with his own children is the equivalent of him being a baby sitter, that all child care is his wife's responsibility. He's supposed to be a father. Having fathered them he now has two choices, be a good one or a bad one.

High powered lawyers I know pay for male college students to come play catch for their sons after school and on weekends. They pay for male psychologists because their kids are desperate for a father figure. And that's sad.

And to angel, no you don't treat them as submissive as though flinging orders at them will float their boat. You treat them as people with their own unique needs and desires.

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RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/15/2009 6:40:44 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

My cat ABSOLUTELY feels that I'm her bitch.


...and you are, lol.  The sooner you accept that the smoother things will go, take it from one who knows


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(in reply to angeldmort)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/15/2009 9:08:49 AM   
ranja


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Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Well he did say it was a bit hard to do childcare as well as working long hours... he was on about a farm as well somewhere on this thread... however i did not hear him say he did not give a rats arse about his children and took delight in being a bad father.

If their arrangements are that he is the main breadwinner and she is the housekeeper and main child rearer and that works between them than that is their business... it is how our set up works and we are fine with that

His problem is in how to get his wife interested in more and better sex

I have decided to tell some of the things that worked for us

me asking for things politely
me being honest about the fact that i am a total slut and not a decent housewife
me asking Him permission to masturbate and often having to tell Him the details afterwards.
me having cyber affairs with His knowledge
me taking His shoes off after work

Him tickling me
Him taking charge and shut me up when i annoy him
Him hurting me

Him asking me to surf the net for porn with Him... and both of us picking different sites and admitting to what we like, we take turns in holding the mouse and clicking things... maybe clothes come off... maybe we decide to do some of what we see our selves... maybe one of us or both of us masturbate

Dressing up, He might ask me to dress up but leave it up to me how to... totally silly using the kids dressup box... schoolgirl... total slut with cheap overthetop makeup... classy lady.... jewellry only... bitch
Or He might ask me to dress up a particular way
He might dress up to match mine

Making a date for sexy time and not chancelling unless one of us is dieing.
It helps to get rid of the offspring for the night.

most of all getting the fun back in the sex was the trick



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Encouraging dominant behaviour from my Wife - 11/15/2009 1:59:24 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He did not say it was difficult balancing work and family life. He made it clear that his wife wasn't the main child care provider, she was the only one.

So I told him what I know from myself and my friends. A man who is devoted to his family doesn't lose his wife's love and desire for psychological reasons. Whereas one who says he's too important for it, is also saying he's more important than her, that he doesn't value her. When you add the blatant manipulation to it, it would seem that the sexual problems are just the tip off. They need communication in a safe place where sarcasm and mistreatment is not allowed. But that would mean he wanted things to change. Since all he wants to change is him getting his rocks off and not the cause of her disinterest, I don't foresee a great outcome.

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(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 100
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