RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it

RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (Full Version)

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NormalOutside -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 8:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I will go one further, my slave has told servers and sales people "you will need to ask my Master", in certain situations. Yeah we get the odd look... Yeah :) I've been called Daddy or Master or Sir by my girls in front of strangers now and then. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Shows exactly how INSECURE YOU ARE that you need this type of display to think yourself a man... even 'nilla couples say things like, "Let me check" without having to include "with my Husband/Wife". You're implying that vanilla couples never use the word "husband" or "wife" in front of other people. It's YOU who has revealed himself as insecure, having to resort to adhominem attacks and strawman arguments to make yourself feel good. Orion simply said his slave has referred to him as "Master" in front of others. He didn't say that he requires her to do so every time. Grow up, SlaveLA.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:13:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Shows exactly how INSECURE YOU ARE that you need this type of display to think yourself a man. If we're going to play that game, we may as well all call ourselves insecure/deranged because of the things we engage in. Want to have your submissive fix your dinner every night? Why? Too lazy to get off your fat ass and cook? Want to be able to spank your sub's ass till it's red? Why? Need to vent some emotional frustration from anger issues? Want to collar your submissive? Why? Afraid she wouldn't stick around if she felt more free to leave?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:15:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NormalOutside quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Shows exactly how INSECURE YOU ARE that you need this type of display to think yourself a man... even 'nilla couples say things like, "Let me check" without having to include "with my Husband/Wife". You're implying that vanilla couples never use the word "husband" or "wife" in front of other people. No... I'm "implying" the "Husbnd/Wife" part is NOT NEEDED, nor is it NEEDED to include the "Master" part. And yes, he DOES "need" it, as evidenced by HIS OWN WORDS: quote: I will not act differently just because of societal pressure... That is not only insecure, but including others in a dynamic THEY HAVE NOT CONSENTED TO. Rude!!!

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:16:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NormalOutside You're implying that vanilla couples never use the word "husband" or "wife" in front of other people. It's YOU who has revealed himself as insecure, having to resort to adhominem attacks and strawman arguments to make yourself feel good. Orion simply said his slave has referred to him as "Master" in front of others. He didn't say that he requires her to do so every time. Grow up, SlaveLA. I doesn't even seem so much to be an issue of insecurity as much as the fact that some people actually engage in WIITWD aspects while simultaneously thinking them to be abhorrent, immoral, repulsive, or insulting enough that a general audience would be disgusted by it. Surely, they cannot all be BDSM catholics... [:D]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero If we're going to play that game, we may as well all call ourselves insecure/deranged because of the things we engage in. Not at all... because that is the dynamic two people have CONSENTED to, and want/desire, NZ.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:20:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA That is not only insecure, but including others in a dynamic THEY HAVE NOT CONSENTED TO. Rude!!! Every time you talk to someone you've never met before you are including them in a dynamic. Part of public humanity is a simple, basic understanding that actually living (outside of the walls of your confinement) means you passively consent to being engaged by other people and other people's dynamics. (Note: I'm only playing along with this ridiculous interpretation of "including others in your dynamic" for the context of the discussion. Otherwise, the suggestion is inane.)

Elisabella -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:21:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: NormalOutside quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Shows exactly how INSECURE YOU ARE that you need this type of display to think yourself a man... even 'nilla couples say things like, "Let me check" without having to include "with my Husband/Wife". You're implying that vanilla couples never use the word "husband" or "wife" in front of other people. No... I'm "implying" IT'S NOT NEEDED, nor is it NEEDED to include the "Master" part. And yes, he DOES "need" it, as evidenced by HIS OWN WORDS: quote: I will not act differently just because of societal pressure... That is not only insecure, but including others in a dynamic THEY HAVE NOT CONSENTED TO. Rude!!! Yeah I'm going to call bullshit on this one. I go to the store, I say "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my fiance and ask if it's okay." My friend Jamie goes to the store, she says "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my wife and ask if it's okay" - is that okay or are they pushing their gay on you? Now if Orion's girl was saying "Let me ask my Master because if I buy this without asking permission he will tie me up and beat me until my ass is red and my pussy will get so wet, so hold on while I make that call" then yeah, that'd be pushing it. But he's who he is to her...he's her Master. She calls him that. I hate to use buzzwords like 'privileged thinking" but I can't think of a better way to describe it. A heterosexual couple can refer to their partners with the words they use every day, but a non-vanilla couple or non-het couple can't? Why? ETA - about the "I won't change for social pressure" thing - I hear this a lot, and I think the only people who have a right to use it are the people who use it consistently. IE if your slave calls you something other than "Master" at work, or in front of her parents or your parents or your kids or whatever, then this line of argument is totally nullified.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:21:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Not at all... because that is the dynamic two people have CONSENTED to, and want/desire, NZ. We're talking about the armchair psychology you inserted into the discussion. As far as "consent" is concerned, I just spoke on that right above this post.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:22:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella My friend Jamie goes to the store, she says "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my wife and ask if it's okay" - is that okay or are they pushing their gay on you? Answer would totally depend if s/he's cute... [:D]

Elisabella -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:24:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella My friend Jamie goes to the store, she says "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my wife and ask if it's okay" - is that okay or are they pushing their gay on you? Answer would totally depend if s/he's cute... [:D] Hahaha I think she's adorable!

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Every time you talk to someone you've never met before you are including them in a dynamic. By virtue of going out in public, people EXPECT to have to "talk" to others... they do NOT, however, expect to be subject someone else's kink... and referring to one and other as "Master" and "slave" to others outside a power dynamic is doing so without their CONSENT to be included. Play as many games as you like, but nobody in this dynamic has the right to shove this off anyone who hasn't consented, as many would find it offensive in the extreme.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:25:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella A heterosexual couple can refer to their partners with the words they use every day, but a non-vanilla couple or non-het couple can't? Why? Because social anthropology isn't a mandatory course in every system of education.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:30:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA they do NOT, however, expect to be subject someone else's kink... Please define "kink" so we can ascertain what characteristics specific to this term make it unsuitable for casual discourse. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA and referring to one and other as "Master" and "slave" to others outside a power dynamic is doing so without their CONSENT to be included. Like every time someone tells a dirty joke at a bar. Except the purpose of the dirty joke is specifically to shock, not any sort of honest expression of a relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Play as many games as you like, but nobody in this dynamic has the right to shove this off anyone who hasn't consented, as many would find it offensive in the extreme. Except it is ridonkulous to even try to suggest that is what is happening in these situations. This is precisely the mentality that comes from a civilization that awards millions of dollars to a woman who spilled a restaurant's obviously hot coffee on herself and felt entitled to not have to suffer the grievance of natural, logical consequences of living.

Elisabella -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Every time you talk to someone you've never met before you are including them in a dynamic. By virtue of going out in public, people EXPECT to have to "talk" to others... they do NOT, however, expect to be subject someone else's kink... and referring to one and other as "Master" and "slave" to others outside a power dynamic is doing so without their CONSENT to be included. Play as many games as you like, but nobody in this dynamic has the right to shove this off anyone who hasn't consented, as many would find it offensive in the extreme. Dude. You know there are people who think marriage is an awful patriarchal institution that has enslaved women for millenia and blah blah blah, the point is, do you think it's inappropriate to call your wife your wife, just cuz they don't do what you do? There are likely over a hundred childfree groups on the internet, do you think it's inappropriate to call your son your son just cuz they don't do what you do? I think what you're missing is that for someone like Orion, being called Master isn't his kink. It's his relationship role. Just like husband, wife, girlfriend, fiancee, etc, it's his role in the relationship. He's not amira's husband, he's not amira's boyfriend, he's not amira's girlfriend, he's not amira's wife...he is her Master. How would you feel if, say, you had a wife, and every time you went out with her you had to call her your mistress (as in the affair type of mistress) - just so not to offend your bachelor friends. I'm guessing you'd be like "screw you, she's my wife." Why should amira call Orion something he's not? Now I admit, I'm hung up on the "saying it in front of kids" bit, but as far as adults go, what's the problem. You seem to be arguing this in principle, rather than in real life consequence, so I'll ask, how do you think it hurts an adult person to hear the word "Master?" Regardless of whether they react negatively, do you think it will actually affect them negatively?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:34:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella I go to the store, I say "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my fiance and ask if it's okay." Nothing wrong with that... but even here, you don't need to include the "fiance" part. quote: My friend Jamie goes to the store, she says "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my wife and ask if it's okay" - is that okay or are they pushing their gay on you? Actually, in some places, yes. Personally, I have to wonder why even go there? Is anything gained from doing so? No... it's done for one's self, and nothing more. quote: ...if Orion's girl was saying "Let me ask my Master... The moment the "Master" part is spoken, it's including others (without their consent) in your kink/power dynamic.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:34:27 PM)
The flaw in this nonsensical thinking stems from the illogical mentality that the perceiver gets to automatically trump the doer or sayer when it comes to matter of what is and isn't "offensive". Which means I have just as much right to not have the illogic of this view imposed on me non-consensually (even though I am in this thread discussing it) because I find it offensive. It means I get privilege to ask management of a restaurant to shush people saying a grace at their table because it makes me uncomfortable. It means I get the privilege to alert beach security two remove persons for being too ugly to wear the outfits they are wearing.

Elisabella -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella I go to the store, I say "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my fiance and ask if it's okay." Nothing wrong with that... but even here, you don't need to include the "fiance" part. quote: My friend Jamie goes to the store, she says "I'd love to buy these earrings, let me call my wife and ask if it's okay" - is that okay or are they pushing their gay on you? Actually, in some places, yes. Personally, I have to wonder why even go there? Is anything gained from doing so? No... it's done for one's self, and nothing more. quote: ...if Orion's girl was saying "Let me ask my Master... The moment the "Master" part is spoken, it's including others (without their consent) in your kink/power dynamic. Okay, I just don't get this. I get that you don't have to include the fiance part, but I don't see why you should prevent yourself from including it either. You're making a factual statement. As far as Jamie and her wife go, Jamie is trans and they are legally married. Kathy is her wife. Legally. There's a piece of paper to prove it. She's doing nothing more than stating a fact, the same fact I'll be stating when I say "My husband" in any sentence 2 months from now. I argue that Orion and amira are doing the same - stating a fact. He's her Master, and unless you can think of a better word to describe their relationship, you're basically asking them to lie if anyone asks "who are you calling?" I don't see why you feel that outright lying would be the moral high ground.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:38:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Actually, in some places, yes. Personally, I have to wonder why even go there? Is anything gained from doing so? No... it's done for one's self, and nothing more. It isn't even conceivable that these instance just might be something so natural and normal to the person that it comes out as easy as saying "bless you" to someone who sneezes, is it? It doesn't occur to you that the only reason you cannot help but see these instances as active, megaphone-like proclamations is simply because they are not natural facets of your life?

HimNbabygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:40:09 PM)
quote: Surely, they cannot all be BDSM catholics... [:D] hey i resemble that remark... Getting back to the discussion, i do call Him Master, and usually when i am out in public it is not so much by accident, but habit. i have never had anyone give me funny looks or even act as if i was odd. But if Y/you really want to get into semantics, is wearing a collar out in public not forcing your kink on someone? Or is by me wearing my bells or slave bracelets forcing my kink? i frequently have people stop and ask me about my bracelets or bells, i try to just say i made them (which i did) but if they push further, i will not hesitate to tell them they are slave bracelets or slave bells. The most severe reaction i have gotten from that is "Cool, i like them" i even had 1 person ask me how much it would cost for me to make him a set for his girlfriend. edited because my net is slow and it's back on track lol His baby girl

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/25/2009 9:40:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella I don't see why you feel that outright lying would be the moral high ground. It seems the suggestion is that, in a social setting, 'proper etiquette' dictates that one must never divulge more information about anything unless it is asked.

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