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Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 7:50:04 PM

Underumam

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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Thomas Jefferson......

As an ex soldier, I truly love this man and what he stood for.

Post #: 1

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 8:30:33 PM

Termyn8or

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Thanks for the refresh, but really those of us who know know, those of us who don't might never know, or care.

I know that is not an optimistic outlook, but it is true. Idiots think the national debt is something we owe to ourselves, or it is merely the trade imbalance. Let them watch football, or better yet, go color.

George Washington's farewell address is another good one. And then there is the politically incorrect stuff that I have. It all shakes down into place, and it's a race. Whether people can be enlightened enough to take control of the situation before we destroy ourselves or not.

Further instruction is needed to further the interests of those who wish to educate others. You can't shove it down their throat. You must cause them to impel themselves to learn. Fighting brainwashing with simple fact is not enough. They must form the opinion on their own and decide not to trust here but to instead trust there. Good luck.

People are very hard to change. If you have ever succeeded I guarantee you that you did it by making them want to. And that is the problem, many do not want to change. For some the world is just fine, things couldn't be better. But their day comes.

I have changed my stance on life. On the day I die I want them to want to come and repo all my junk, but not be able to afford the gas to get over here and pick the crap up.

T

(in reply to Underumam)

Post #: 2

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 8:33:31 PM

MzMia

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Term, I love reading whatever you write.
Regardless of whether I agree with you on that topic or not.
You have a way of bringing things "home".

Term? you keep it real!

Don't ever stop being you!

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 3

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 9:27:35 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Well in that case we've got both.

K.

(in reply to Underumam)

Post #: 4

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 10:12:55 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

When the government fears the people, watch your asses.

If there were liberty, there would be no government.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to Underumam)

Post #: 5

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 10:27:16 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

If there were liberty, there would be no government.

Kim

So what we have? Just a free-for-all?

No police, no fire department, no military, no laws, no regulation, just everyone on their own to fight everything out among themselves.

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 6

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 11/30/2009 10:39:22 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

If there were liberty, there would be no government.

That is simply not true. Liberty is not license. Cooperation with its accompanying restraints evolves naturally in human societies because without it they endure a state of chaos from which nobody benefits. Government, in its best sense, is simply cooperation taken to a grander scale.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/30/2009 10:40:02 PM >

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 7

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 12:06:49 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Liberty is not license.

I agree, and did not mean to imply it is. Are you thinking that I am using the word ‘liberty’ in the same sense as ‘freedom’?

quote:

Cooperation with its accompanying restraints evolves naturally in human socieites because without it they endure a state of chaos from which nobody benefits.

I don’t disagree with you on this thought; I just don’t think it is wise to be working toward societies, as they tend to segregate and exclude those who are not of the majority.

Might incorporation be a better strategy?

quote:

Government, in its best sense, is simply cooperation taken to a grander scale.

Could be just me, but this statement gives me a feeling about as warm and fuzzy as, “a grizzly bear is simply a fur coat with teeth and claws”, does.

Perhaps I should ask what is liberty? I believe I am thinking of a whole different ‘animal’ then… everyone else(?); I didn't think it could be had without truth, wich does not seem to be one of governments strong points.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 12/1/2009 12:07:59 AM >

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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Post #: 8

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 12:10:02 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No police, no fire department, no military, no laws, no regulation, just everyone on their own to fight everything out among themselves.

It seems odd to me that ‘the people’ so often discount themselves in the existence of humanity.

What does government have, which does not exist amongst the people? Truth? Authority?

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 9

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 12:13:13 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No police, no fire department, no military, no laws, no regulation, just everyone on their own to fight everything out among themselves.

It seems odd to me that ‘the people’ so often discount themselves in the existence of humanity.

What does government have, which does not exist amongst the people? Truth? Authority?

Kim

Why was government established in the first place?

What would you suggest as an alternative to police, fire departments, and other government services?

That we each take those functions upon ourselves individually?

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 10

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 12:41:19 AM

dessy

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hi jefferson, i like your words,can i get to und3erest them?

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 11

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 12:45:57 AM

dessy

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i told ya i love to understand this stuff,am new on it.please teach me

(in reply to dessy)

Post #: 12

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 1:30:16 AM

Silence8

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Basically, the printing of money has been relegated to the private sector. Not paper money, but virtual money, through loans and leverage. If our intuitions were better, I think it would be obvious how strange this is.

I'd recommend the work of Frederick Soddy for a text on banking that actually makes sense.:

quote:

...Soddy was "routinely dismissed as a crank" when considering his five prescriptions, amid the Great Depression, for creating a sensible global economic structure.

The first four were to abandon the gold standard, let international exchange rates float, use federal surpluses and deficits as macroeconomic policy tools that could counter cyclical trends, and establish bureaus of economic statistics (including a consumer price index) in order to facilitate this effort. All of these are now conventional practice.

Soddy’s fifth proposal, the only one that remains outside the bounds of conventional wisdom, was to stop banks from creating money (and debt) out of nothing.

This last, in essence, would crash the cards of modern fiscal structures: the entire concept of "leveraging," with the same money is loaned out multiple times, would be constrained. If all loans had to be balanced with real assets (remember that old community Savings & Loan where neighbors were able to buy homes using the Christmas accounts of those around them?), much of the House of Cards that have tumbled around us all in the past year would be impossible to recreate.

(in reply to dessy)

Post #: 13

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 2:19:54 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

That is simply not true. Liberty is not license. Cooperation with its accompanying restraints evolves naturally in human societies because without it they endure a state of chaos from which nobody benefits. Government, in its best sense, is simply cooperation taken to a grander scale.

K.

Nicely stated Kirata.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 14

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 2:38:22 AM

Underumam

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Being a history buff(and a major), I just like to toss things like this out there every now and then. Reminders are good. Speaking of which, has anyone seen the similarity to what's happening in the U.S. these days and post WW1 Russia? It's damn chilling.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 15

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 6:57:58 AM

chiaThePet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dessy

hi jefferson, i like your words,can i get to und3erest them?

Give me Liberty or give me Meth?

chia* henry (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to dessy)

Post #: 16

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 7:05:04 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

Give me Liberty or give me Meth?

Give me liberty or give me Beth.

Oh wait... Merc's already got her... damn.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Post #: 17

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 7:22:41 AM

Aileen1968

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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Give me Liberty or give me Meth?

Give me liberty or give me Beth.

Oh wait... Merc's already got her... damn.

I think he shares....

_____________________________

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 18

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 8:05:42 AM

mnottertail

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Give me rossignol or give me head!!!!!!!

Jean Claude Killy

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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Post #: 19

RE: Thomas Jefferson said THIS would happen - 12/1/2009 8:14:17 AM

HunterS

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Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

Being a history buff(and a major), I just like to toss things like this out there every now and then. Reminders are good. Speaking of which, has anyone seen the similarity to what's happening in the U.S. these days and post WW1 Russia? It's damn chilling.

Care to expand your analogy?

H.

(in reply to Underumam)

Post #: 20

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