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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 3:46:54 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

We also have a different view than many on what makes us who we are. For me, my behavior does not define who I am. My core character strengths are what makes me who I am and the behavior is only a reflection of that core. As a result, I don't have a lot of problems changing my behavior to suit his will.

Knight's Kyra



Just a note.... and maybe alittle clarification... Adapability is a significant aspect of Kyra's Character in general. Interestingly.... adapting is something that improves her esteem and view of self. The interesting part is that she is a person that seeks structure and routine... But she doesn't thrive there!


So in the spirit of understanding you better, which is my real goal, you are the type of dominant that expects his slave to do most of the adapting rather than him. That said, you have a very adaptable submissive, and to take it a step further, this is how she excels as a person.

I do also expect the boy that serves me to bend. I'm not a service Domme by any means. I want him to learn as well. I do have my minimum expectations as well and often this takes time to get him there, but training him to get that place is half the fun for me. The adaptability is more in the methods that I use for his training.

Perhaps the best way to some it up for me is that if I realise that I won't get a submissive to ultimately bend to my core rules, I would break as well. That said, if I see the potential and the desire in him to want to follow my rules and learn what I expect of him, this is where I will adapt my methods to get him there.

Interesting. You know, when I adapt my methods to better understand my submissive, I feel like I've accomplished something as well. Because, like Kyra, I love learning, gaining a deep understanding of a boy to then best understand how exactly push his buttons and than adapting my style of dominance to him and getting the expected results is absolutely thrilling.

Thank you so much to you and Kyra for posting on this thread. You've both helped me, and hopefully others, to understand different perspectives better.

- LA

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:01:05 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I guess though, that this being said, there are Dominants out there who might actually have a kink in finding someone that isn't their match and bringing them there?

- LA


I'd guess you're near the mark. But that happens in everyday life......how many times have you seen people at work being stripped of their attitude/behaviour embedded from a previous organisation and then educated in the values and culture of the current organisation? That's the way it has to be - ultimately you toe the line to get on in your current situation or you find another situation. I'm not so sure it's a kink - could well be for some - but it's certainly a necessity for practical reasons (all swimming against the same tide etc makes for a smooth relationship).

I mean if you're running the show and you're resolute in your conviction of how it's going to be then how can you not expect someone to fall in line. In an ideal world you'd be able to achieve this with the minimum of effort and aggravation but there will always be times when you're going to have to enforce the rules by means of discipline - particularly at the beginning of a relationship.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/6/2009 4:03:04 AM >

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:04:03 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Lady Angelika and Everyone,

At the risk of bringing back a misunderstanding that derailed the thread earlier on, I'll add my two bits. :-)

After reading the OP, I had an MBTI (Myers Briggs Type Indicator) moment and spotted trouble. There's no problem with clarity, however, for those skim-reading and/or those triggered by specific words, the meaning can be misunderstood - even though the OP gives extremely clear, specific definitions for the terms "bend" and "break". As with Carl Jung's seeming dichotomies (introverted versus extroverted, thinking versus feeling, judging versus perceiving, etc.), it's important to recognize these are *not* judgments where one side is good and the other bad. Likewise, they are (in fact) scalar and thus not mutually exclusive. A person rests somewhere on each scale and may thereby have a complex mixture of attributes.

To clarify how I interpret the OP, I'll summarize with the following scale: "bending to breaking". Where, "bending" is an adaptive, dynamic dominance approach (using observation and two-way feedback) to determine the best way to dominate, lead, and help a given submissive grow, and "breaking" is a strict dominance approach in which a submissive is given the dominant's (possibly static) requirements and both benefit from their need/desire for templates.

In the general sense, I've met dominants of both types and I don't see one style as being intrinsically better than the other.

[...]

As a submissive, I enjoy dominants who use aspects of both approaches.


Thank you for adding this Elan. You understood the spirit of my original OP. And more and more I see it as a continuum as well, where one is more than likely a mix if they want to be a proper dominant, but that said, there some that favour one end of the spectrum to the other.

Funny you bring up MBTI. I tend to break the carnal rule of MBTI as I'll oscillate between Extrovert (E) and Introvert (I) from time to time (usually there is a year or two between the times I've taken it). In each case, I'm only 1 point off from being an E or an I.

I quote simply as an example of how a widely accepted dichotomy can be seen by another school of thought as a continuum.

Although many people view being introverted or extraverted as a question with only two possible answers, most contemporary trait theories (e.g. the Big Five) measure levels of extraversion-introversion as part of a single, continuous dimension of personality, with some scores near one end, and others near the half-way mark. Ambiversion is a term used to describe people who fall more or less directly in the middle and exhibit tendencies of both groups. An ambivert is normally comfortable with groups and enjoys social interaction, but also relishes time alone and away from the crowd. (Wikipedia)

And you guessed it. On the Big Five test, I'm a true blue ambivert.

-LA


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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:23:49 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I guess though, that this being said, there are Dominants out there who might actually have a kink in finding someone that isn't their match and bringing them there?

- LA


I'd guess you're near the mark. But that happens in everyday life......how many times have you seen people at work being stripped of their attitude/behaviour embedded from a previous organisation and then educated in the values and culture of the current organisation? That's the way it has to be - ultimately you toe the line to get on in your current situation or you find another situation. I'm not so sure it's a kink - could well be for some - but it's certainly a necessity for practical reasons (all swimming against the same tide etc makes for a smooth relationship).


True. However, I would tell you that in organizational theory, there are many studies that have proven that this type of stripping often has a long term negative effect on the organization, not to mention the individuals. More and more, organizations, while going through mergers and acquisitions, bring in a team of consultants to analyse the gap in cultures between organizations and put together an adaptation plan in order to minimize the negative effects. Rather, an approach based on coaching, retraining, re-educating, at times transferring or dismissing can work better for all parties involved. This is in fact adapting to employees needs.

That is not to say that historically, and even to day, organizations have not behaved in exactly the way that you have put it. And though I tend to favour more modern, inclusive and adaptable management practices, I don't discount the effectiveness of the ones your propose, as we've seen their effectiveness. The thing that is remarked most in the contemporary commentaries of academics studying in this field (and I happen to be one of them) is "Yes, ok, it was effective. But at what cost?" More and more, theoretical frameworks that inform current managerial best practices take individuals into consideration.

quote:

I mean if you're running the show and you're resolute in your conviction of how it's going to be then how can you not expect someone to fall in line. In an ideal world you'd be able to achieve this with the minimum of effort and aggravation but there will always be times when you're going to have to enforce the rules by means of discipline - particularly at the beginning of a relationship.


Well let's take it back to the interview process. I am currently looking for a boy. I have clearly stated objectives and a description of expectations. Here on Collarme, that is my profile. As I am approached by boys who are looking to serve me, I can right away analyse their cover letter. "I want to kiss UR feet Mistress!!!" usually ends up in the reject pile. A well written letter of intent gets consideration. Then comes the interview, a set of questions that follow that help me assess whether or not the boy will, as you say, "fall into line" or not. If he has a few things to work on to get to where I want him to be, and he wants to get there, it will be my pleasure to train him. If he's too far from the mark, then I'll thank him for his efforts but I'm not going to go there.

Essentially, I need a boy who requires minimum effort and will give me minimum aggravation. I already have a full time job, part time doctoral studies and a full social life. I need him, to a certain degree, to have a lot of intrinsic motivation to be the boy I want him to be, as well as self-discipline to help me get him there. So I guess without this, there would be the break, and the break would the end of the (potential) relationship.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 12/6/2009 4:46:46 AM >

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 6:39:52 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I'd guess you're near the mark. But that happens in everyday life......how many times have you seen people at work being stripped of their attitude/behaviour embedded from a previous organisation and then educated in the values and culture of the current organisation? That's the way it has to be - ultimately you toe the line to get on in your current situation or you find another situation. I'm not so sure it's a kink - could well be for some - but it's certainly a necessity for practical reasons (all swimming against the same tide etc makes for a smooth relationship).

I mean if you're running the show and you're resolute in your conviction of how it's going to be then how can you not expect someone to fall in line. In an ideal world you'd be able to achieve this with the minimum of effort and aggravation but there will always be times when you're going to have to enforce the rules by means of discipline - particularly at the beginning of a relationship.


Hi NorthernGent

I do understand the jest of your post and have seen people change for the very reasons you have stated. For myself I have too much pride I guess. I have a certain idea of how the world should be and how it should treat me. With new situations and employment there are always new rules and expectations of behavior of course. I will do my best to accommodate these changes however I will not change my basic beliefs on treating people and allowing others to treat me.

My experience is …by my very force of will …I more often than not change those who would change me. My skills are hard to find and it is easier for them to change than find someone with equal skills that will toe the line.

I don't want to come off as pompous ...I just will not treat people badly for the sake of a job...it is a bottom line for me.

It has cost me one job over my career but I was much better off not working there. So...it is possible to be yourself through all situations in the work place. You can just show no fear.

Butch


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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 6:56:03 AM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Why is he unhappy? I realise this would be hearsay, but I am interested in hearing about this approach.

- LA


A willow branch is bendable for a reason.

A dead branch breaks for a reason.

You have proven to me just in this forum alone you are the kind that wants it your way or no way unless someone bends to you.

Yes it would be hearsay, just my opinion on his personality
and then you would have something negative to say to me and my POV about that. 

Try bending in the forums instead of breaking.

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 7:10:23 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Why is he unhappy? I realise this would be hearsay, but I am interested in hearing about this approach.

- LA


A willow branch is bendable for a reason.

A dead branch breaks for a reason.

You have proven to me just in this forum alone you are the kind that wants it your way or no way unless someone bends to you.

Yes it would be hearsay, just my opinion on his personality
and then you would have something negative to say to me and my POV about that. 

Try bending in the forums instead of breaking.


I believe I have treated both sides and everything in between with quite of bit of respect.

You have the right to your perception. I don't share it, nor do those who care about me and know me well.

- LA


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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 7:14:14 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		There are core things that I am unbendable on. It will either be my way or the highway. These are usually things related to my own morals and core values, the foundation of the relationship, or health related issues like smoking.

There are other things, that I am very flexible on. Things that I would not feel would threaten the well being of anyone I care about, or the foundation of the power dynamic relationship we would have built. Those types of things I would be much less rigid on.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 7:15:15 AM   
sexyred1


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Status: offline 		This whole concept of "breaking" someone is foreign to me, other than some hot fantasies of me being captured and forced to be a sex slave.:)

In reality, however, bending/being flexible is the foundation of a successful relationship in all of its facets.

The only thing on me that can break, is my nail, and then I go to my manicurist and all better.

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 7:38:54 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

This whole concept of "breaking" someone is foreign to me, other than some hot fantasies of me being captured and forced to be a sex slave.:)


That actually isn't the intended meaning of the thread. I give credit to Elan for perhaps explaining even better than I did in my OP in his post here.

- LA

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 9:11:52 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

So in the spirit of understanding you better, which is my real goal, you are the type of dominant that expects his slave to do most of the adapting rather than him. That said, you have a very adaptable submissive, and to take it a step further, this is how she excels as a person.




This would not be an completely accurate comment..... Just because Kyra and for that matter Alandra do very well adapting... though Kyra is abit more skilled at it than Alandra... this doesn't equate to them doing most of the adapting. In fact... all three of us adapt and change all the time. BUT..... In my world... I am making the choices of what adapting is occuring! I am constantly seeking to better myself and my life and as result... the trickle down affect is the girls are going to have to adapt with me!

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 9:37:23 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I don't discount the effectiveness of the ones your propose, as we've seen their effectiveness.



I agree with you. I probably misrepresented my own opinions. I certainly wouldn't propose the sort of stripping down/breaking someone's spirit as a pretext to rebuilding that person's attitude in line with the organisation's culture. I agree that coaching/training/development is the better option but I have seen scenarios where a much needed employee (due to experience and quality of work) was refusing to bend to the organisation's culture and it was causing morale issues. Then it becomes a bit tricky - you need that person but you need the person to toe the line to resolve staff in-fighting. I suppose that's when 'breaking' becomes a viable option.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 11:03:34 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Frankly, I think its you who needs to apologize. And dont assume you have the right to dictate how someone answers.


I have the right to ask someone to stay on topic.

That's all I will say on this matter. The thread has been derailed enough.

- LA


And we have the right to ignore your decision about what is or is not on topic. You are not the thought police, you are not dominant over anyone else. And you tend to act as though because you spell your name with an upper case letter, that you are of more value on the boards than anyone else.

You aren't a moderator here. Accept that or set up your own board where you can pull any post you dislike. Read the TOS.

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 11:19:55 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

So in the spirit of understanding you better, which is my real goal, you are the type of dominant that expects his slave to do most of the adapting rather than him. That said, you have a very adaptable submissive, and to take it a step further, this is how she excels as a person.



This would not be an completely accurate comment..... Just because Kyra and for that matter Alandra do very well adapting... though Kyra is abit more skilled at it than Alandra... this doesn't equate to them doing most of the adapting. In fact... all three of us adapt and change all the time. BUT..... In my world... I am making the choices of what adapting is occurring! I am constantly seeking to better myself and my life and as result... the trickle down affect is the girls are going to have to adapt with me!


Firstly, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. I think that when we are mature adults with open minds, we can discuss delicate subjects with respect and understanding.

I appreciate that you took my hypothetical statement as a just that, in the hopes of understanding, and not take offense to it. It says a great deal about you as an individual.

I guess since I chose to adapt, I'm making the decisions as well. The more and more this thread goes on, the more I realise how really it's not that cut and dry, that we all really have strict rules and flexible ones but it's in the way that we communicate and express those rules that give off the impression that we are more rigid than others.

- LA

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 11:37:26 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I don't discount the effectiveness of the ones your propose, as we've seen their effectiveness.



I agree with you. I probably misrepresented my own opinions. I certainly wouldn't propose the sort of stripping down/breaking someone's spirit as a pretext to rebuilding that person's attitude in line with the organisation's culture. I agree that coaching/training/development is the better option but I have seen scenarios where a much needed employee (due to experience and quality of work) was refusing to bend to the organisation's culture and it was causing morale issues. Then it becomes a bit tricky - you need that person but you need the person to toe the line to resolve staff in-fighting. I suppose that's when 'breaking' becomes a viable option.


I'm glad we took the time to post this through. As I mentioned to KnightofMists in my earlier thread, I'm really appreciating your perspective.

Though it comes from a different place than mine as I tend to sometimes be very flexible, I've been told often not strict enough (which apparently isn't a unanimous opinion!) I'm realising that my originally stated analogies, when used properly, are simply just two sides of the same coin.

- LA


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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 12:52:50 PM   
kc692


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Frankly, I think its you who needs to apologize. And dont assume you have the right to dictate how someone answers.


I have the right to ask someone to stay on topic.

That's all I will say on this matter. The thread has been derailed enough.

- LA


And we have the right to ignore your decision about what is or is not on topic. You are not the thought police, you are not dominant over anyone else. And you tend to act as though because you spell your name with an upper case letter, that you are of more value on the boards than anyone else.

You aren't a moderator here. Accept that or set up your own board where you can pull any post you dislike. Read the TOS.



Wow, let me get this straight, it's an absolutely gorgeous Sunday, the birds are chirping, the sun is shining brightly, the posters that had a problem have olive branches going back and forth, etc, the thread is back on topic, and you feel the need to release vitriol?  Having a bad day dear? Do you need an olive branch somewhere yourself?


**walks off not believing the first time in ages I have had to read posts, that a poster who has actually posted in the past some things that gave me food for thought, has gotten to this level**

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:15:54 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
For me, my behavior does not define who I am. My core character strengths are what makes me who I am and the behavior is only a reflection of that core. As a result, I don't have a lot of problems changing my behavior to suit his will.

Another great summation. It makes perfect sense but, if you wouldn't mind, could you give us a more concrete, specific example? I'd be really interested to hear it.

luci


I am not sure that I am clear on what you are wanting examples of, my character strengths or behaviors that I have changed?

Some of my character strengths are integrity, analytical, love of learning, adaptability... those are all part of who I am.

There are many different behaviors that can reflect that core. This past winter I learned to downhill ski. In the past I have studied math, meteorology and physics. That drew from the analytical strength and from my love of learning.

In my relationship one of the biggest changes I have made in my behavior is accepting and enjoying a poly relationship. For the most part, I am a monogamous person. I had to change a lot of behaviors/mindsets in order to get to a place where I can be happy with an open, poly relationship.

If that doesn't answer your question, can you please clarify?

Knight's Kyra


Thanks for replying back, Kyra. I guess I was just trying to ask about some of the behaviors/mindsets that may not come naturally for you and that you've been able to successfully change to suit Knight's will. The mono/poly example helps me understand a bit more what you're meaning. Thanks!

luci

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:20:59 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692
**walks off not believing the first time in ages I have had to read posts, that a poster who has actually posted in the past some things that gave me food for thought, has gotten to this level**

I have no dog in this hunt but, in defense of Celeste, I'd say that we all stray from our best behavior from time to time. Not sure she needs to be shredded for it or accused of being somehow lowdown. The OP wasn't when she stepped out of line..............luci

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:28:30 PM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

But we can still lust after Him online, right?



....
In person... just might not be as sexy!


i highly doubt that i would find that true....she says from a very safe distance



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Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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RE: Do you bend or break? - 12/6/2009 4:40:42 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692
**walks off not believing the first time in ages I have had to read posts, that a poster who has actually posted in the past some things that gave me food for thought, has gotten to this level**

I have no dog in this hunt but, in defense of Celeste, I'd say that we all stray from our best behavior from time to time. Not sure she needs to be shredded for it or accused of being somehow lowdown. The OP wasn't when she stepped out of line..............luci

i have to second this, Celeste is cool people. Have i always agreed with her? No...but that has zero to do with her coolness....


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