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BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 8:28:14 AM   
bondmaid123


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		Hello...

I've read a couple of threads talking about protocol in front of kids, service in front of kids, etc. so I'm going to ford into the potentially taboo waters....

As always, of course there's a spectrum, YMMV, etc.

Something that sort of bothers me is that so often I read/hear about the submissive partner taking care of ALL the housework, ALL the chores, being "bossed around" by the Dominant's kids (who may or may not be their own biological children) etc....

I think it is *crucial* for children to be contributing members of households for numerous reasons... they need to learn HOW so they can maintain their own home someday.. they need to understand that they ARE expected to be contributing to the smooth running of the home... they need to not think they are the absolute center of the universe and entitled to a perfect environment of somebody else's making (ok, yeah, I tend to dislike most kids I'm around these days... and I'm a mom  so I'm around LOTS of other kids... and have been for years).

In addition, I do not think it's healthy for children to be "taught" disrespect, which I've seen happen in situations where the children end up higher on the pecking order than the submissive.  I'm sorry, I recognize that there are cultures which still condone slavery in a real sense... but that's not ~really~ what we're talking about in this lifestyle, I don't care how to parse the verbage and twist the semantics (and I'm *Gorean* by paradigm... I "get it"...I also live on Earth and not in a 3rd world country.. shhhh... don't tell on me... lol).  I remember speaking with a woman who was routinely abused by her teenage daughters because she was "just a slave" in her household.  ?!  Oh hell no.  Who allows that?! 

I understand that domestic servitude is/can be a very visceral (and convenient) method to explore the power exchange dynamic... and that for some people total and complete humiliation, including secretly dreading/being thrilled by having to defer to the spoiled 3 yr old is a hugely fulfilling thing... but I wonder if perhaps sometimes people get caught up in the "kink" aspect of it and forget to consider the larger picture?   Time and place, and all that jazz.  I don't think we do our children any sort of service by raising them in a dynamic that allows them to abdicate *responsibility*.  In fact, I believe that if you "consent" to a situation which condones this sort of environment you're really (at least in your small way) contributing to the deterioration of society.  (Extreme?  I'm not so sure.. heh)

I'm *not* saying BDSM is an unhealthy dynamic for parents of children to explore.  I just think that all too often the "safe sane and consensual" needs to be expanded to a slightly broader definition when they are kids in the mix.

Has anybody else noticed this theme?

~a bondmaid

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 8:45:09 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think we need to avoid discussing any sort of inclusion of minors in our kink, whatever that kink is.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 8:55:40 AM   
bondmaid123


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		Ah but that's my point.  We can't.  If we have kids, we have to take their best interests into consideration as well as our own needs/wants/desires.  Well, we don't *have* to.. and therein lies the conflict.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 8:59:00 AM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		doing assigned chores is ok but not being bossed by the ums that is including them in the kink and not allowed. if the Domm/e icludes this then i would ask for imediate release

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LadyPact

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:03:12 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Bondmaid, you probably didn't know, but this is a no no. This thread will be pulled.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:07:13 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		FR:

I am going out on a limb on this one and agreeing with bondmaid. I hate how many parents use their kink to justify spoiling their children. Sorry but if that is the sort of brat that is going to be in charge of our future then I fear for the future already. I am sick of seeing 3 year old children saying something and dear mom or dad jumping to fullfil their wishes. I see this in kink and vanilla and it sickens me. I have two boys and I raise them alone, with a weekend father for the youngest. I will not go into my history more then to say that I have to be stricter then normal with my oldest. My children know how to show respect and by christ if they fail they know they will answer to me. I do not need to abuse my children for them to respect me. I only have to express disappointment in their behaviour to see an improvement.

It is sad that people let their kink determine that children are being brought up badly.

By placing children above the submissive you help to badly prepare the child for their role in society. I child who thinks they are the centre of the world would make a bad coworker or employer. I have seen childre grow up in such a situation and to be honest it does not end pretty in most cases. We need to find a balance between our lifestyles and parenting. Our duty to our child comes before our own pleasure as far as I see it.

verity

< Message edited by estah -- 12/6/2009 9:14:54 AM >

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:09:16 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		Some people put bdsm before parenting. That's life.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:10:18 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Ah but that's my point. We can't. If we have kids, we have to take their best interests into consideration as well as our own needs/wants/desires. Well, we don't *have* to.. and therein lies the conflict.


Greetings..

It is an area that is not open for debate nor anyone elses thoughts as to how Master and I raise the herd. If someone has parenting troubles then take it to an appropriate place..otherwise how you or anyone else does it belongs and is owned by the adults responsible based on their own morals and values..not mine.

starshine


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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:13:13 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
I thought so too Ex-Steel but this week alone I have seen at least two other threads with the word children in the title that are still up to my knowledge. Have the policies changed regarding the discussion of minors?

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:14:37 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I used to know a "master" that ran his household this way, so I understand where you are coming from and I agree. However everyone here is correct, this thread is likely to be pulled. You should consider posting it to Fet, even though that site is a bear when it comes to finding topics to follow.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:16:27 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Please keep to the topic at hand and not to this thread getting pulled. By doing that you are thread hyjacking.

verity


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It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:24:24 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		There is an old saying starshine....It takes a village to raise a child...I believe this. I am not going to turn my head and close my eyes when I see that someone is raising their children poorly or abusing them. That is one of the problems with this topic supposedly being taboo. It says that we should remain quiet even when we know that children are being harmed by remaining silent,

verity


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It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:31:01 AM   
bondmaid123


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

It is an area that is not open for debate nor anyone elses thoughts as to how Master and I raise the herd. If someone has parenting troubles then take it to an appropriate place..otherwise how you or anyone else does it belongs and is owned by the adults responsible based on their own morals and values..not mine.


Please note this is not a personal attack against your family.  I have no idea how you're raising your kids. :)  However, as verity stated, it takes a village... and actually, I'd say more to the point the village raises the children whether you like it or not (hence it being so important to monitor the members of your "village")... And, moreso, if the child's going to be a functional productive member of "the village" some day, these sorts of discussions (as opposed to unilateral REQUIREMENTS... because obviously I'm NOT telling you how to raise your kids, I'm just opening a topic to generate discussion and *thought*...) are important to have, IMO.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:34:06 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you bondmaid for expressing that better then me.

verity


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It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:34:25 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I don't know if the thread will be pulled or not.  Maybe it will be kept.

I've said this on other threads.  My job after bringing others into this world was to prepare them to be functioning adults.  I always found those stories about young adults living on their own for the first time, who weren't capable of cooking a meal for themselves or doing their own laundry rather ridiculous. 

I'm of the mind that each member of the household makes a contribution to it.  That includes chores.  My sub is in service to Me, not anybody else.  That includes offspring.  Has he had to gently remind them that the garbage hasn't gone out or that they haven't put something away yet?  Sure.  There have also been times that he's picked them up from school because I was still at work or something similar, just like other blended families do.  I don't see that as a kink.  I see that as a family.


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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:36:18 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Lady Pact,

Thank you for being a postive example on that front.

verity


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It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:45:28 AM   
Pinkpottiepants


Posts: 76
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		The needs of bringing up children in a healthy and happy home home, always trumps our own needs, wants and desires. Once we have made the choice to have children, their needs come first. Our desires to lead a lifestyle that is outside of what most would consider the norm, always suffers when there are children, that's just the way it is. We must do our best to avoid having our children become involved in the life style we have choosen, not because we should be ashamed of it, but because we should give our children the chance to choose their own path to walk.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bondmaid123

Ah but that's my point.  We can't.  If we have kids, we have to take their best interests into consideration as well as our own needs/wants/desires.  Well, we don't *have* to.. and therein lies the conflict.


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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:50:54 AM   
Troi


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Normally when I see threads like this I sit back and just smile. REASON: when someone decides to take a position, they are likely to get hammered by another, who 1. is so mindlocked they are unable to even consider other opinions 2. will go off on a buzzword or keyword as a means to chastise or silence another. That's precisely what I saw here. KNOCK IT OFF.  I've read the kneejerk reaction to Bondsmaid's post. Guess what? RE READ what she said. No where in her post do I see ANYTHING inappropriate. What I did see was someone who lives in the REAL world, yanno other than in cybertext or forums... simply saying that we do not exist in a closed society, where we can PRETEND that only adults are affected by lifestyle choices. Are you really going to even THINK about slamming someone for acknowledging REALITY?

I understand why safeguards are in place in this forum and I agree with them. What I don't agree with is this tendency for reactionary posting because you may not agree with the poster...citing rules. Does this cyber lawyering change the reality of the concept? I think not. So let's step back. Take a pause. Do whatever we need to do to insure that we're not taking out our own personal needs or insecurities upon another and above all else... address the post... NOT the poster.

*Sets out a cigar box of BIG BLUE CRAYONS for those who may need them.

I wish you most well,

Troi


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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 9:59:13 AM   
ModeratorSixteen


Posts: 1275
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Bondmaid, you probably didn't know, but this is a no no. This thread will be pulled.


It's fine.

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RE: BDSM, children, and a disconnect? - 12/6/2009 10:01:20 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Personally, i think that instilling a bit of the 1950s style with a strong emphasis on personal accountability for every member of the house is the farthest thing from kinky and the most likely to produce productive young adults. Those are two "alternative" concepts that i use daily.

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