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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/10/2009 11:06:26 PM   
QuirkyAnne


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quote:

Why can't a woman be more like a man?


To which Eliza Doolittle would likely have said, "Kiss my ascot..."

Anne

< Message edited by QuirkyAnne -- 12/10/2009 11:07:45 PM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/10/2009 11:12:24 PM   
Hawkwindblues


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From: Berlin, Germany
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You have to simply accept that there are different concepts.

For some Love and Sex is interwoven, for others not.
The same goes for SM and Sex.

Look for your own group and do not try to get genderspecific data. I have hurt enought men as i was younger, because love and sex were not necessarily connected for me, but for them.

You can only say women or men have a tendency and even then you are in the middle of grey mist.

Define your stand masterironwood and search matching partners.

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After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to MasterIronwood)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/10/2009 11:37:04 PM   
doublesweetness


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It is a personal thing, heavily influenced by culture, and the cultural influences are often ignored to give a sense of control over ones life. Sex does not require love for anyone, but many people prefer it that way due to a wide variety of reasons, mostly cultural. And women are not hard wired for love, and the attempts at evolutionary theory here are, well attempts is the nicest way to leave it.
HisSweetElysium, Drifa, Mercnbeth, StolenBiFaeries, and AquaticSub were the most imformative posts on this topic.

(in reply to breatheasone)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 2:48:08 AM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterIronwood

I know that don't but I don't understand why most women can't/won't separate love and sex. They are two different things and I have found only the exceptional few women able to separate the two.

I would be interested in any feedback on this subject, particularly interested in any feedback from the women (Domme, sub or slave).



Well since you have not asked most women, you can not validate that statement be it true or false. But for purposes of this discussion, let us assume it is true. Sex is a mechanical, physical release which requires no additional human contact. Love is an emotion which people associate with sex as well as other things. This turns simple sex into what some call "lovemaking" The woman I have met for the most part desire lovemaking to simple sex. This is why separating it is undesirable for many

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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(in reply to MasterIronwood)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 4:03:51 AM   
DesFIP


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It's not that we can't. It's that we don't want to. Sex without love is like a burger without cheese, ketchup, pickles etc. It's better than starving but not satisfying.

Sex within a loving relationship is a five course tasting meal at a top restaurant.

Since I have to choose which, why would I choose something that has no value to me over something I know is far superior?

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 4:54:39 AM   
Drifa


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From: Rural Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Sex without love tops masturbation for me any day of the week.


I used to be that way, then I bought a Sybian /evil grin.



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:00:48 AM   
CaringandReal


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"I know that don't but I don't understand why most women can't/won't separate love and sex."

In my life the men have been much more that way than myself. But I didn't start meeting dominant men until the middle of my life, and it's very hard to completely love someone who doesn't fill your needs, no matter how enamoured they are of you and how affectionate you feel toward them. Also, as I've matured and my appearance has faded somewhat it's become more 50-50, which I far prefer. Most men fall in love with appearance first, then later it extends to the rest of the person. If your nature is very submissive, it's easy to just say yes to a relationship with the first person who comes along and wants you. That's why I think of my youth as ill-spent, I didn't discriminate. If he or she desired me, that was usually enough for me. I didn't ask myself, "they want me, that's great, but do they fit my core needs?" Frankly, it didn't occur to me to do so...or that I could. I was never much of a casual fuck. I was submissive and so I was loyal and tried to serve and obey my vanilla partners and care for them as best I could, as much as they would let me. If the relationship was short, it was because they wanted that, not because I got bored and met someone else. The converse was also true: if the relationship was long, it was not because I was very happy living with this vanilla person, but simply because they wanted it, and I didn't have a great deal of will or self-determination. I just went with the flow--until it became intolerable, as it started to do as I matured and got to know myself and my needs better.

In all relationships that occured after my silly and ill-spent teens and early 20s, there was initially no "love." There was sexual attraction, a desire to have fun, the allure of someone new, a sense of them as having qualities I admire (and those always included compassion and empathy) and somtimes a general intuition that this person was something special. In the bdsm cases the sexual attraction included feeling strongly submissive to the person. But I don't personally feel in love with someone until quite a bit of time has passed, enough time to see that they are lovable. It grows gradually, almost imperceptibly, as we get to know one another, sometimes more in me, sometime more in them. It's not important to me if my partner doesn't feel it as long as he or she is an ethical human being and also treats me in the manner I need to be treated. The dominant-submissive dynamic makes up for a lot of things. ;) But it is important that I see potential in myself to eventually grow to love them. Part of what I get off on the most is giving, and full giving, beyond the SOP of obedience, is impossible (for me) without feelings love for the dominant. Love engenders worship, after all.

< Message edited by CaringandReal -- 12/11/2009 5:32:33 AM >


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"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:09:06 AM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sfortzando

Perhaps the OP, Master Henry, and Pickering can have a lovely, no strings attatched three way. It'd solve all of their problems.


Oh come on! That was one of the most self-consciously ironic songs of the century!

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to Sfortzando)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:13:54 AM   
Silence8


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Worth noting: it's quite possible that early human societies took a long time (possibly hundreds of thousands of years) to 'prove', as it were, that sex and pregnancy are directly related. Some pacific island societies like the Trobriands might still not recognize the connection. Maybe this accounts for the sex, love divide when it exists.

< Message edited by Silence8 -- 12/11/2009 5:14:47 AM >

(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:14:57 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drifa

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Sex without love tops masturbation for me any day of the week.


I used to be that way, then I bought a Sybian /evil grin.





I've used one and I would like to own one but... when I used it, I still only got off when another person started biting my back and neck.

Maybe I'm a freak. I'd rather have the brief physical connection without the love than a machine that I control. Maybe I'm too submissive to enjoy controling my own vibes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Drifa)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:21:05 AM   
MasterIronwood


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There seems to be some confusion regarding my use of the word "exceptional" in my original post. Perhaps I could have chosen a better word. When I used "exceptional" there, I meant that these few women were the exception to most women I have known.

(in reply to Aynne88)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:23:27 AM   
MasterIronwood


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Right there I beleive is the gist of the matter! Thanks antipode.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 5:29:35 AM   
MasterIronwood


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Drifa - Lots of food for thought there. Thank you.

(in reply to Drifa)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 7:08:34 AM   
cpK69


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~fr~

For me, it isn’t a “sex vs love” thing, but a “sex is intimate” thing; and well, I don’t care to share my innermost nature with just anyone. There is no productive purpose in it; at least, not at this time, nor in the foreseeable future.

Kim


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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to MasterIronwood)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 7:29:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

It's honestly not that I can't relate. I can. Just the same as I certainly understand those who chose not to participate in scenes with anyone but the person they are attached to for S/m. It's what works for them, so frankly My opinion on the other side of the question doesn't matter that much.


Lady P -
I was hoping to generate that perspective and make the comparison between casual sex and casual play. Not saying one is better/worse than the other, but hoping to get an appreciation for the possibly that both polarities exist.

Obviously either position requires a bit of rationalization and a history. Mine comes from having so much casual sex that it almost took on the quality of a bodily function. It was about that time, in college, that my something more, came from 'discovering' WIITWD.

Now it just so happened that source of information, long before the days of the internet, didn't have such a clean line between sex and S&M. This was NYC in the late 70's early 80's; orgies were breaking out all the time! Clubs were like the appropriately named 'Dante's Inferno' resembled a few of the rings of hell. In my personal life, I noticed I got a lot more out of sex when it included a large dose of WIITWD. It became my source of intimacy. It still is.

Now the idea of going to an orgy and getting involved with those associated activities is still a whole lot of fun! Frankly its a lot easier to participate in that type of exchange 'casually'. The need, or I should say MY need, to connect with someone emotionally and mentally when it comes to any WIITWD intercourse requires a more intimate knowledge and connection with them. Not necessarily 'love' but at minimum a 'connection' and a common desire to see where that connection will lead when taken through the path of WIITWD. The most likely destination for that path is a degree of intimacy that, again for me, leads to a physically sexual exchange of some sort. For me, the sex act begins with a firm grip on a wrist, the attachment of a cuff to a wrist, a clip to a nipple, a smack to a ass, or a simple command like; "go over there, strip, and kneel".

I know I'm a 'freak'.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 7:38:18 AM   
sissycdboy


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yes we agree. we want love along with sex. it has so much more meaning. we are looking for & wanting ltr

(in reply to Tinkerer)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 8:27:19 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drifa

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Sex without love tops masturbation for me any day of the week.


I used to be that way, then I bought a Sybian /evil grin.




i have heard of those! May i ask...is there penetration involved with a sybian?


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Drifa)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 9:36:50 AM   
AquaticSub


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Usually. It's basically a vibe that you sit on and it has different attachments to suit your pleasure. It's all expensive as all hell though from my understanding.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to breatheasone)
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RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 9:58:07 AM   
AnimusRex


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Honestly, I am a bit puzzled by the question.
I have to ask the OP- is your problem that you aren't getting laid enough?
Or that you find women that you do lay are constantly falling in love with you? Really? Thats a problem for you?

There are a lot of good comments here, but I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

(in reply to MasterIronwood)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Sex vs Love - 12/11/2009 9:58:12 AM   
breatheasone


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Ok cool, thanks Aqua. i have heard they are THE SHIT though....

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 100
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