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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:05:17 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
That's kind of like saying, Oh I'm sorry honey, I'm not responsible at all for hurting your feelings by sleeping with your best friend.


i never once said people aren't responsible for their own bad behavior, not sure where you saw that in my post? Where did i say that?


Some people are adopting this lines of thinking as a means escape responsibility for the hurt and mental pain they cause others.






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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:26:00 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4


quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
That's kind of like saying, Oh I'm sorry honey, I'm not responsible at all for hurting your feelings by sleeping with your best friend.


i never once said people aren't responsible for their own bad behavior, not sure where you saw that in my post? Where did i say that?


Some people are adopting this lines of thinking as a means escape responsibility for the hurt and mental pain they cause others.







Yes i agree with you ... So SOME people should grow up, and not do that....But, that doesn't mean because some people are immature and irresponsible, it is free license for everyone to act that way.


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:32:13 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		I’m glad to see this thread because I struggle with these questions, too. I am very passionate and feel emotions intensely. My thought processes often get completely clouded because I feel emotions so intensely. I have known this about myself for a long time and I try to take responsibility for it by not making important decisions while I’m in the “clouded” stage, journaling, recognizing the emotions as coming from me rather than being imposed or caused by someone else, etc. For the record, I can’t control my emotions. I can control my reactions to them, but not the emotions themselves. I have counseling several times in the past and I don’t recall any counselors telling me I could control my emotions.

I thing “You make me feel [this way]” is totally irresponsible. I do what Candy mentioned, saying “When you do X, I feel Y.” It connects the emotion to a particular action rather than a person.

Do I think all emotions are valid? Sure, but that doesn’t mean they are rational or sane or appropriate. It certainly doesn’t mean they should be acted upon. If I acted on all my emotions, I’d surely be in prison right now.


_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:33:59 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I’m glad to see this thread because I struggle with these questions, too. I am very passionate and feel emotions intensely. My thought processes often get completely clouded because I feel emotions so intensely. I have known this about myself for a long time and I try to take responsibility for it by not making important decisions while I’m in the “clouded” stage, journaling, recognizing the emotions as coming from me rather than being imposed or caused by someone else, etc. For the record, I can’t control my emotions. I can control my reactions to them, but not the emotions themselves. I have counseling several times in the past and I don’t recall any counselors telling me I could control my emotions.

I thing “You make me feel [this way]” is totally irresponsible. I do what Candy mentioned, saying “When you do X, I feel Y.” It connects the emotion to a particular action rather than a person.

Do I think all emotions are valid? Sure, but that doesn’t mean they are rational or sane or appropriate. It certainly doesn’t mean they should be acted upon. If I acted on all my emotions, I’d surely be in prison right now.


Lucylucy!...i think i love you woman!

Edited to add: i would love to take credit for this incredible wisdom LOL  but....i've had some help (putting it mildly) from family, friends, a Dr or two, and of course, my Lord Jesus.


< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/14/2009 8:37:00 AM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:35:34 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Whip, it is apparent to me, by your writings on the forums that you are a passionate person that lives by your emotions. It is also apparent that in many instances, your emotions rule you. Neither is a bad thing persay, but it is not necessary. To me, that is when melodrama is invited in.

I detest melodrama and while I am a huge proponent of personal responsibility, I will NOT EVER take responsibility for the emotions of everyone around me. My emotional well being is MY responsibility. I can remove your power to hurt me or I can give you that power. It is my choice. By loving someone, we give them that power. If they hurt us enough, they can destroy that love and lose that power.

Yes, someone can say or do something to upset me. BUT, the important thing is how I am going to process that, manage it within myself and MOST importantly, reflect that back out.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/14/2009 8:38:51 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 8:40:10 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		One of the things that makes Kim and I so perfectly compatible is that we are rather stoic people.

The Stoics, by the way, were a group of Greek philosophers that held that emotions were real and valid, but we had the free will to ignore or turn aside the emotions. They believed that we can use rational thought and reason to determine the proper actions to take, using emotions and feelings as merely one of many factors. They saw this as a freedom, rational thought being the gatekeeper, to allow us to decide which things we would allow to move us.

This is in contrast to our modern understanding; we tend to believe that emotions can rule our actions, and that if we feel a certain way, we are compelled to act in a resultant way. Most of this, I believe, is the result of Freudian thinking that tells us that our actions are the result of subconscious emotions based on past trauma. According to this theory, suppressing or disregarding feelings is unhealthy, leading to irrational behavior. In my view, this is foolish, since it elevates emotion to the final trump card in any encounter.


In other words, the answers to your questions are that, no, while we cannot control how others act, or even the stimuli that we receive, we can control our feelings by using reason and logic, and the only important feelings are those which we accept.

The Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius:
"Outward things cannot touch the soul, not in the least degree; nor have they admission to the soul, nor can they turn or move the soul; but the soul turns and moves itself alone."

Modern translation, courtesy LaTigresse: Yes, someone can say or do something to upset me. BUT, the important thing is how I am going to process that, manage it within myself and MOST importantly, reflect that back out.

< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 12/14/2009 8:42:45 AM >

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 9:59:07 AM   
antipode


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quote:

I will wait a while before I post those feelings


I will wait until you feel you can divulge what you are talking about... then there will be something to respond to, I can't really tell you what I think until I know what I am supposed to be thinking about..

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 10:05:24 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		We are responsible for our emotions. However, the person who tries to elicit a response from us is still responsible for that. Sometimes someone evokes something that they didnt intend to do. Thats not who I am talking about. A person can be mean or threatening etc and then saying they are not responsible for the way the person feels . I believe that is wrong. So yes, i am responsible for my emotions. However, the person harassing me, threatening me or purposefully trying to evoke something in me does not evade their responsibility.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 12/14/2009 10:23:46 AM >

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 10:18:31 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Whatever I feel is what I feel.  Those are valid, because they exist.  Those feelings may be triggered by someone else, but I own them.  Those feelings may come about unexpectedly and might even be irrational, but they are still mine.  Yes, people can cause me to feel a certain way, but by saying "You made me feel _____" I am essentially giving them ownership of those feelings, which I don't recommend.  "You made me feel sad when you said XYZ, and I am working through that now" is a little different, because I'm retaining ownership of my own feelings, and taking responsibility for myself.

It's perfectly OK to be affected by the words or behavior of another, but just because someone brings you to a particular emotional state doesn't mean they are responsible for fixing it.  That's all on you (generic you).  I mean, I could lament all day and night about how cruel my ex husband was, and I'd be right about it.  But that's not going to fix anything.  And I'd rather move forward with my life and be happy, so I took ownership of those feelings and turned them around.  If I waited for him to do that, I'd still be miserable. That's where "How you feel is your choice" comes into play.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 10:32:42 AM   
lusciouslips19


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Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 10:34:49 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		I don't quite understand the question but want to say this:

i am good at keeping it together, but very privately i am totally emotional... especially when i am hormonal...

Recently i chose to tell my Husband that i was feeling on the edge, rather than hide it and busy myself with little jobs so He wouldn't notice... He used it and we had a lovely game and all the time i cried ... it was wonderful

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 10:46:59 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?


lol. Isn't that ridiculous?

My emotions aren't so much damaged by her taking the PY and sharing it with another, it's more of sharing the "other" parts of her that were supposed to be for me. Maybe that's just plain selfish...lol.

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RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:12:54 AM   
breatheasone


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?

This is how i view it

If my spouse cheats on me. i am/have been betrayed. Now, how am i feeling about that betrayal? Hurt, angry, homicidal(lol), etc....

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/14/2009 11:16:13 AM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
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(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:14:52 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?


I think there is a very fine but definite difference in what we are talking about.

For me, it's called the 'Excuse Book'. Using your example, a SO gets busy behind my back and it hurts me. Sure, I am hurt! Who wouldn't be? The difference is how I process that hurt internally, whether or not I allow that hurt to take over my identity, and use it as an excuse for how I feel about myself, how I treat others, and how I forge ahead with my life. Not to mention, how I behave with that person if I have to interact with them in the future.

I can acknowledge the pain the situation created without allowing it to control me. I have a choice in allowing that emotion to have a negative or positive impact in my life. Or none at all...

I think that saying we have a choice in our emotions is somewhat over simplified. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that we have a choice in whether or not we allow those emotions to control us.

Feeling hurt/betrayed is not the responsibility.......what you do with it, the power you allow it, is the responsibility.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:19:06 AM   
lusciouslips19


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Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?


I think there is a very fine but definite difference in what we are talking about.

For me, it's called the 'Excuse Book'. Using your example, a SO gets busy behind my back and it hurts me. Sure, I am hurt! Who wouldn't be? The difference is how I process that hurt internally, whether or not I allow that hurt to take over my identity, and use it as an excuse for how I feel about myself, how I treat others, and how I forge ahead with my life. Not to mention, how I behave with that person if I have to interact with them in the future.

I can acknowledge the pain the situation created without allowing it to control me. I have a choice in allowing that emotion to have a negative or positive impact in my life. Or none at all...

I think that saying we have a choice in our emotions is somewhat over simplified. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that we have a choice in whether or not we allow those emotions to control us.

Feeling hurt/betrayed is not the responsibility.......what you do with it, the power you allow it, is the responsibility.



I totally agree with what you are saying. I guess for me the sticking point for me is people who do crappy things to another and then use that phrase,"Im not responsible for your emotions," as a way to avoid their own responsibilty in situations.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:26:01 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		People who use the fact that we are indeed, responsible for our own emotions, as an excuse for actting badly, are immature. Unfortunately we can't make someone own up to their bad behavior. We can only control how we feel, act, and respond to the bad behavior. 

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
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(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:26:37 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Luscious, I understand what you are saying and I think there is another fine line there.

Because of writing styles, personalities, etc........I think there is a pretty good chance a person with a sensitive nature will find offense in many of our words here. If I write something with no offense intended, I am not going to take responsibility for some sensitive soul being offended. Why should I? The key is the intent and how are we going to know each and every single poster's intent? It is impossible.

I could be equally annoyed by much of the stupid, in 'Polls and Random Stupidity' but I take responsibility for MY feelings of annoyance and ignore the stupidity. If some of that annoying stupidity, and it often does, overflows into another thread, I ignore it. Not allowing it, and the stupid person that typed it, to annoy me.

Rather than make the other person responsible for my feelings of annoyance, I choose to take that on for myself. Not give the stupid the power over my emotions.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/14/2009 11:27:02 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:30:16 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:34:47 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

So if I am married and my spouse cheats on me and I feel betrayed , Im not really betrayed? My feelings are my responsibility?


I think there is a very fine but definite difference in what we are talking about.

For me, it's called the 'Excuse Book'. Using your example, a SO gets busy behind my back and it hurts me. Sure, I am hurt! Who wouldn't be? The difference is how I process that hurt internally, whether or not I allow that hurt to take over my identity, and use it as an excuse for how I feel about myself, how I treat others, and how I forge ahead with my life. Not to mention, how I behave with that person if I have to interact with them in the future.

I can acknowledge the pain the situation created without allowing it to control me. I have a choice in allowing that emotion to have a negative or positive impact in my life. Or none at all...

I think that saying we have a choice in our emotions is somewhat over simplified. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that we have a choice in whether or not we allow those emotions to control us.

Feeling hurt/betrayed is not the responsibility.......what you do with it, the power you allow it, is the responsibility.



LaTigresse answered this before I could, in exactly the way I would have.  Hell yes, you can feel hurt, betrayed, dumbfounded, angry - whatever it is you feel. But then what are you going to do about it?  Will you hang onto it for the rest of your life, or will you process through it so that you can move forward? 

quote:

I totally agree with what you are saying. I guess for me the sticking point for me is people who do crappy things to another and then use that phrase,"Im not responsible for your emotions," as a way to avoid their own responsibilty in situations.


Well of course, some people are assholes, lol.  Again, however, are we going to let their assholish'ness (is that a word?) rule our lives?  Or will we create boundaries to not allow those people in, and will we figure out how to heal from them when we do?


My ex felt he wasn't responsible for my emotions, and therefore felt he could say and do whatever he wanted.  So he did, and eventually I left.  And I decided I did not want to be a bitter and angry woman, so I did what I needed to, to heal and move forward.  He's not allowed access to me now (boundaries).  Sure I am still affected by some things that happened, but I own the feelings I have and I am the one who has to process them.  Do I want to be happy or do I want to be unhappy?  That's the key question.  If I spent my life being angry at him (and rightfully so), I wouldn't be where I am today.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: emotions - 12/14/2009 11:39:20 AM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		If you trust me and I know your hot buttons, I can Make you feel like shit in ten seconds. I am making you feel this way, you have no chance to pause, think, or control. It's a hot button, it's an area where you are vulnerable. I am bypassing the rational part of you going right to a track in your brain that's going to snap out a response faster than you can stop it.

Do I do it? God, I try not to, but I have done it.

Probably not a dom or parent alive who hasn't done it. Even tho perhaps unintentionally or in a moment of sudden anger.

So yes, that statement "You make me feel x", is true. Still, since you have time to think about how you want to respond, it doesn't have to be phrased that way.
This is some old psychological technique, the name of which I can't recall, but it's a technique in teaching "fair fighting", namely the idea that it's preferable to make statements that are "I" statements not "you" statements.

Example: "I find the mention of my (point of weakness, shame, vulnerability etc) hard to hear, and can't seem to stop the emotion of (x) that overtakes me when I hear it." Why this way of phasing is deemed heathier? IT acknowledges what has happened and defines the trigger. The declarer takes responsiblity for his emotion and vulnerability to attack on the issue. After that, it's up to the listener to decide what to say--to apologize, to nod. In d/s, maybe it's a good clue to a dom that the sub would like to de-sensitize, get some control over that issue so the response isn't automatic and negative.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 40
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