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RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 8:10:08 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

1) You make me feel [this way].
and
2) All emotions are valid.

I don't accept either of these statements as accurate...... NO ONE makes me feel the way I do. I choose to feel a certain way because of the actions I perceive. I am the one making the choice of those feelings.... I accept that responsibility!

Secondly... NOT all my feelings are valid... but they exist regardless. Valid to me implies "Justified"... frankly... not all my feelings are justified! In fact.... they might outright be wrong because I am basing my feelings on wrong information or perception. I have been known to be angry and upset with the girls on many issues and if I acted as those feelings are justified and valid each and every time... life would be very unhappy for me. I might be angered at the girls because they are late from work... but with further information... I learn that the issue of why they is beyond there ability to control... IE.... an accident right in front of them as they returned home. I believe that accepting the concept that ALL my feelings are valid/justified is an subtle way to remove responsibility over my own feelings and the choices I make because of them!

I love the example of being upset with the girls if they are late from work.. and how you maintain your emotions until you get further information. However, what if additional information or the further information is denied to you? I'm asking because in many respects, I myself am always interested in the "further information" aspects (it's logical when faced with an emotional situation). Let's say, if one of the girls denies you this additional information on serval occasions, or the additional information takes weeks or a couple of monthes?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 9:00:40 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

1) You make me feel [this way].
and
2) All emotions are valid.

I don't accept either of these statements as accurate...... NO ONE makes me feel the way I do. I choose to feel a certain way because of the actions I perceive. I am the one making the choice of those feelings.... I accept that responsibility!

Secondly... NOT all my feelings are valid... but they exist regardless. Valid to me implies "Justified"... frankly... not all my feelings are justified! In fact.... they might outright be wrong because I am basing my feelings on wrong information or perception. I have been known to be angry and upset with the girls on many issues and if I acted as those feelings are justified and valid each and every time... life would be very unhappy for me. I might be angered at the girls because they are late from work... but with further information... I learn that the issue of why they is beyond there ability to control... IE.... an accident right in front of them as they returned home. I believe that accepting the concept that ALL my feelings are valid/justified is an subtle way to remove responsibility over my own feelings and the choices I make because of them!

I love the example of being upset with the girls if they are late from work.. and how you maintain your emotions until you get further information. However, what if additional information or the further information is denied to you? I'm asking because in many respects, I myself am always interested in the "further information" aspects (it's logical when faced with an emotional situation). Let's say, if one of the girls denies you this additional information on serval occasions, or the additional information takes weeks or a couple of monthes?

You dont get the concept of Master and what is expected of his "girls"?

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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Post #: 82

RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 9:25:25 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

1) You make me feel [this way].
and
2) All emotions are valid.

I don't accept either of these statements as accurate...... NO ONE makes me feel the way I do. I choose to feel a certain way because of the actions I perceive. I am the one making the choice of those feelings.... I accept that responsibility!

Secondly... NOT all my feelings are valid... but they exist regardless. Valid to me implies "Justified"... frankly... not all my feelings are justified! In fact.... they might outright be wrong because I am basing my feelings on wrong information or perception. I have been known to be angry and upset with the girls on many issues and if I acted as those feelings are justified and valid each and every time... life would be very unhappy for me. I might be angered at the girls because they are late from work... but with further information... I learn that the issue of why they is beyond there ability to control... IE.... an accident right in front of them as they returned home. I believe that accepting the concept that ALL my feelings are valid/justified is an subtle way to remove responsibility over my own feelings and the choices I make because of them!

I love the example of being upset with the girls if they are late from work.. and how you maintain your emotions until you get further information. However, what if additional information or the further information is denied to you? I'm asking because in many respects, I myself am always interested in the "further information" aspects (it's logical when faced with an emotional situation). Let's say, if one of the girls denies you this additional information on serval occasions, or the additional information takes weeks or a couple of monthes?

You dont get the concept of Master and what is expected of his "girls"?

I sincerely do without question, however this topic is about emotions. Let's take the example and apply it to a friendship, a relationship with a family member (brother, sister, cousin, etc..), or apply it to a vanilla relationship. This thread is in regards to emotions and how people effect one another emotionally in a relationship. D/s alone is not where the answers to this question exist.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

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Post #: 83

RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 9:44:42 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
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A Master like Knight expects full disclosure from his girls. They would not even think of withholding information from him. They would be booted out the door.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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Post #: 84

RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 10:18:46 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
I love the example of being upset with the girls if they are late from work.. and how you maintain your emotions until you get further information. However, what if additional information or the further information is denied to you? I'm asking because in many respects, I myself am always interested in the "further information" aspects (it's logical when faced with an emotional situation). Let's say, if one of the girls denies you this additional information on serval occasions, or the additional information takes weeks or a couple of monthes?

In theory they might deny information from him... but I suspect it'd be something on the scale of "the world is going to end" or "someone is going to die" if they told him. Knight and his girls seem to be a near perfect example of transparency.

Personally, if I withheld information from Valyraen deliberately things could go either well or very, very, very, very badly. Depending on how much I could tell him. IE. He's never upset about "I'm late because of my friend Lisa but she's asked me not to tell you the specifics. Please trust me that it was a good reason." And he would - provided I never give him a reason not to believe it.

However, "I'm late cause I'm late and I'm not telling you" would be an entirely different story...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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Post #: 85

RE: emotions - 12/18/2009 11:15:55 AM

KnightofMists

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Whiplashsmile4

In regards to they line of thought your asking....

First... what is the expecation of having the information or response in the first place.

In my M/s dynamic... there is an established expection and such action on the girls part would result in serious consequence... a consequence they understand. My emotions would exist... and would likely be very intense.... but even though it's there actions that set the situation... IT's my attachment to the expectation that create the emotional response to the situation. If I had no expection or less of an expection as compare to the nameless friend... the emotional intensity would be much less. The question of it being Valid and Justified is one that is subjective and NOT objective. My friend might feel that I am being completely irrational and over the top while I might feel completely valid and justified in my feelings. The difference being to our emotional attachment to the expectation of being on time and even commitments is significantly different. Ironcially... it might be that I hit the friends emotional button in what he precieves as overly emotional.

It really can get complicated and interwined in the various relationships. I have found the best we to navigate emotional issues is to understand ones own emotional attachments to expecations/values and principles etc. To me... it's not so much that They made me feel that way. It's more I feel this about X.... and they went and done X. Successful relationships understand how I feel about X and when they go and do X or not do X.... they are being constructive or destructive to our relationship depending on how I feel about X. I believe that the deeper our understanding we have of our partners with regards to their emotional attachments the better we are armed to take constructive actions to generate positive emotions or avoid negative ones within our relationship.

This to me is not about being a robot.. .in fact... very much the reverse. I am a thinking feeling human being involved with thinking feeling human beings. The more I am self-aware of these emotional connections and attachments... the better I can navigate and nuture the relationship .

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 86

RE: emotions - 12/20/2009 10:09:28 AM

cpK69

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Joined: 5/9/2008
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After the last few days of thinking on the topic, I am now certain that my emotions cannot tell me a single thing about another person; only me.

Also, that thing they indicate, which I was unable to put a term to, before, is vulnerabilities. I'm not sure what to call it, though, perhaps 'vulnerabilities of ego'?

If my thoughts are accurate, to say “you make me feel”, is to blame someone else for my ego?

I still think emotions are valid, but only in being used to assess these vulnerabilities; never to judge, nor in deciding a course of action, especially since they tend to cloud perception. (maybe logic is a better word)

If I am having an emotional reaction due to perceiving my beliefs are being slighted, then it is my inability (or perceived inability) to defend my beliefs that I am reacting to.

Perception is not the same thing as emotions; it is possible to be aware of something, without being vulnerable to it; even if that something acts in a manner requiring me to counter act.

Intuitiveness is something slightly different then perception; I think, because it’s not only about observing what is, but also, detecting what isn’t. (It’s a new thought though, so I’m not sure how accurate it is.)

As for “interest” being an emotion; I would think a sincere inquirer would be objective in their acquisition of information/experience; emotions do not fit in that category.

... and food; it’s just not one of those things I give a lot of thought toward; if it weren’t a necessity, I might never think of it.

quote:

ps...you are one of the most human people I know on this site...just the fact you worry about it makes you special.

I'm still pondering this statement....

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 12/20/2009 10:11:38 AM >

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RE: emotions - 12/20/2009 12:36:06 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

1) You make me feel [this way].

A classic disavowal of ownership of one's own emotions.

quote:

2) All emotions are valid.

Bullshit. Very, very few emotions are valid. Emotions are just reactions, and they can be controlled like any other emotion.

Both of these statements are the calling cards of the emotionally manipulative; people who exercise no control over what they feel and shift responsibility for their emotional outbursts onto others. No use for them at all. They can all go jump in a lake frozen over with a thin sheet of ice.

Tell us what you really feel?

Kim

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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Post #: 88

RE: emotions - 12/20/2009 4:40:45 PM

Dominasola

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Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Ottawa, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

If a man goes to a bar, picks up a woman, she turns out to be a t-girl, and he freaks out and beats her up, are his emotions ("gay panic") valid? If a kid is walking down the street and a dog barks at him from a yard, scaring him, and his fear turns to anger and he starts hurling rocks at the dog, is that valid?

I am curious to know how you are defining "valid." I say this simply because I can think of two ways right now to look at it:

1. The emotional responses of the people in these hypothetical situations are valid because they are functional responses to various stimuli; emotions can be seen as the remnants of physical reactions that once allowed for humans to survive. The child becoming scared at the barking dog, then, is scared because a dog is a predatory animal, and the barking triggered an instinctual response that suppressed any social conditioning the child may have received in association with domestic dogs. [Thus, valid = biological predispositions]

2. The emotional responses of the people in these hypothetical situations are valid because they are social responses to the situation presented to them; the trends of human society conditions people into reacting in ways that are "socially acceptable" (whatever that may be at the time). The man who freaks out because he discovers a transgendered person in the place of what he previously thought was biologically a woman is doing so because he had been raised with the belief that gender lines are impermeable; there is a social stigma involved. [Thus, valid = learned trends]

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