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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

All I want to do is shine a light from a different angle.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

hey red, pop by the house we'll do some nasty stuffs.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: xssve

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: Justme696

there was not logic behind "women and children first". It is based on a remark of 1 captain.
Noble though.

This is just a guess, but I would think that it's based on the idea that if you save the children, you save the future, mixed in with a little chivalry.

- LA

Its complicated - a lot of it has to do with male:female ratios and economics in high density populations - i.e., monogyny preserves the male:female ratios on a roughly one to one basis, and enforcing feminine chastity provides paternity assurances to males - i.e., they are assured the children they are providing for, devoting their time and resources to, and who will inherit whatever they accumulate are their actual genetic progeny - Chivalry is compensation for keeping women on a short leash, since we aren't an essentially monogamous species.

In d/s, it;'s just more literal, lol, but it accomplishes much the same thing, i.e., they are both ways of compensating for the resulting boredom or restlessness of social confinement, it just depends on what you find more gratifying.

Firstly, I doubt all this is going throught the captain's head when the boat is sinking! /sarcasm

Secondly, you write "Chivalry is compensation for keeping women on a short leash, since we aren't an essentially monogamous species." You gotta be kidding me!!!

Chivalry is a man being the best man he can be to his woman, and by extension showing respect to other women, regarless of whether he leans towards submission or dominance. It is about showing respect and class. All men that I know personally know that are chivalrous do so out of love and respect of women.

- LA

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statistically speaking, which by definition describes a curve

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

hey red, pop by the house we'll do some nasty stuffs.

sounds fun...it is snowing here and not fun at all. :(

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I was brought up with the notion that chivalry was asexual. I keep the door open for men and women alike. Courtesy, chivalry's more pedestrian cousin, is the mother of civility and politeness.

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Chivalry is a term related to the medieval institution of knighthood. It is usually associated with ideals of knightly virtues, honor and courtly love. The word is derived from the French word "chevalerie", itself derived from "chevalier", which means knight, derived from "cheval", horse (indicating one who rides a horse).

Today, the terms chivalry and chivalrous are used to describe courteous behavior, especially that of men towards women.

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but a lot of women still get particularly horny when they're in their fertile phase, and prefer more dominant partners

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

All I want to do is shine a light from a different angle.

Which is pretty much always a good thing.

You know, on the Internet, we all too often forget to provide feedback. I certainly do.

When I first read your post, I didn't feel that there was anything to reply to. And it occured to me that there really wasn't, because it was a well done, sensible post on a topic where that can hard to come by, on account of precisely the things you outlined. But, reflecting on something that was lamented by a friend (namely, that her posts rarely get any replies, as they make too much sense), there is something amiss when all the posting volume is directed at disagreement, controversy and drama, with little to no positive feedback when we do agree with something. I certainly haven't been as diligent in that regard as I'd like. Back in the days of Usenet, that was more common, as a means to compensate for those elements of interaction that are lost online (nods, smiles, tone of voice, etc.).

So: thanks. With regard to the main topic, and the solution of meritocracy, you nailed it. Well said.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

hey red, pop by the house we'll do some nasty stuffs.

sounds fun...it is snowing here and not fun at all. :(

LOL, actually look at my profile, it aint snowing here right now...but warm heart and warm house is all I can tell ya.

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"You shall leave me when you will, and I will even help you to do it if needful; so far, indeed, that if you are mired, I will get down off my horse myself to succor you" This is the ancient formula word for word.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

I started reading a thread in the Gorean forum one time where the argument was about who should be saved from a sinking ship if there weren't enough lifeboats; and the trend was distinctly that masters come first, slaves last - there are no male slaves in Gorean, no female masters, or even switches for that matter, the best they've managed if "Freewomen" who are basically women who aren't owned yet, and I'm guessing they're not going to first in line for the lifeboats either unless they can overpower a man.

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There is a reason that the old rule is "women and children first" - men are basically expendable, from a biological point of view, we break snow, fight wild animals, take risks that are often fatal, and we do it to protect the core of the gene pool, represented by women, the means of expanding the population and replacing the losses.

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Sorry, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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but a lot of women still get particularly horny when they're in their fertile phase, and prefer more dominant partners

Again, this is caveman thinking.

Biologically, perhaps I get more horny in my fertile phase. I don't discredit the power of biology. However, because I'm not wanting to conceive a child at the moment, I take this into very little consideration. I think having an intelligent conversation with a charming, intelligent, classy man is more likely to get me "horny".

And no, I don't prefer a more dominant partner. But I won't fault you for not seeing it from this perspective. Caveman thinking hasn't gotten there yet.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: Lucienne

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
If many of the 'feminists' on these forums were on an election ballot for public office, there is NO WAY I would vote for them. Not because of gender but because of their inability to control themselves and their emotions in a manner that would give me the confidence in them to do a sensitive job well.

How much exposure have you had to politicians behind the scenes? I get your point. But it seems a bit silly. To begin with, politicians tend to err on the other side of the spectrum-- saying as little as possible. Really, it's pretty unusual to get a female politician to talk on the record about feminism in any depth. And, in my experience, any politician worth voting for doesn't actually talk like a politician when the cameras aren't around. You have to be passionate to succeed in politics. A combination of passion for the issues and for your own success as the most worthy standard-bearer of those issues. Preferably more of the former than the latter. How a person speaks about issues in a forum like this isn't necessarily indicative of how they would speak about the issues if they were trying to get votes. And how a politician speaks about issues in front of the camera isn't necessarily indicative of how they talk about it in a safe private space.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: xssve

I started reading a thread in the Gorean forum one time where the argument was about who should be saved from a sinking ship if there weren't enough lifeboats; and the trend was distinctly that masters come first, slaves last - there are no male slaves in Gorean, no female masters, or even switches for that matter, the best they've managed if "Freewomen" who are basically women who aren't owned yet, and I'm guessing they're not going to first in line for the lifeboats either unless they can overpower a man.

Let me guess, this was before Omega and Rapture ran away with their tails between their legs?

Women are the bottleneck of reproduction. Any culture places a high value on their survival, or goes extinct.

Yes, slaves would go last, regardless of gender. That's a function of values. Bear in mind that the reason Goreans use the term kajira/us (my best guess at etymology: qua dira), is to avoid confusion. In BDSM terminology, slave can mean anything. In Gorean terminology, the term has a distinct meaning. To avoid this potential for confusion, we use the word kajira/us. You'll pardon if I don't take a page to explain it further, I hope.

Some errors:
× There are male slaves, both in the lifestyle and in the books that inspired it.
× In a BDSM sense, a free woman in a household that has a slave is a mistress.
× Gorean free women are not unowned slaves (an oxymoron, by the way).
× Some Goreans have an interest in BDSM, and will do as they damn well please in that regard.
× An aspect of switching is considered the human default behavior in Gorean thought.

I'm not going to elaborate on all of that here. There is a FAQ thread for a reason, and this isn't the place to discuss the matter, seeing as the thread is about misogyny (Gor popped up as a subtopic because kittinSol and others forwarded the erroneous notion that the Gorean lifestyles are inherently misogynistic).

As an aside, who gets to go in a lifeboat may not be who should get to go in one. People tend to act less than rationally under such circumstances, so it depends on whether or not cooler heads prevail. There's no reason why a woman of childbearing years should be passed over for a man, for instance, and indeed it would be appropriate for him to pass up his seat for one if there were any contention, in my opinion. But this is, again, not the place to rehash a full thread.

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There is a reason that the old rule is "women and children first" - men are basically expendable, from a biological point of view, we break snow, fight wild animals, take risks that are often fatal, and we do it to protect the core of the gene pool, represented by women, the means of expanding the population and replacing the losses.

Bingo. In such a scenario, one has to be cynical, and the rational choice is to minimize the losses to the population at large when losses are avoidable. That means ascribing a value to people. As a general rule, the ability to bear a child outweighs most other considerations. Allowances for differences in selection pressure have to be made, though. The loss of one Einstein or Da Vinci or Feynman is a greater setback than the loss of a ship full of John or Jane Does.

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Sorry, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

That would not be a problem, given up to date prescription glasses.

Health,
al-Aswad.