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RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 12:44:01 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
In link after link Jefferson was raised Episcopalian...

Yeah I got that and already responded to it here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I was raised Congregationalist, that doesn't mean that either of us belongs to those denominations. Thomas Jefferson didn't claim to be a deist, he claimed to belong to his own sect as I've already said. He was rather vocal about his position with statements such as this: “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”

Read his words, not an Episcopalian. How can I make this more clear? Do I need to use hand puppets?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Being a deist did not require forefathers to deny their religions.

How about denying the religions you've attributed to them, would that require them to deny those religions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Now scroll down the list till you find Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin...do you see what is listed for the religion. See it helps to read the links people send you rather then to just think you know.

You claimed my example did not show Deist…Only because you did not read it.

I guess you missed where I've already been quoting and linking from that part of the page, I'll post it again for you:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
The site you linked even admits that Benjamin Franklin was a deist while it counts him as an Episcopalian.....that's just messed up.

"Benjamin Franklin was raised as an Episcopalian but was a Deist as an adult. "

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Two Deist of the signers is even less of an influence than Quakers.

My point was never about the quantity of deists. It was that you're trying to claim christian-nation-misinformation as a valid source.

You certainly read a lot in my words that I never say...and when I point out your mistakes you claim you already admitted to them...You are a hard person to make sense of...you claim I never listed Deist. I did you just did not read it...now you claim you did...Now you are saying I am not giving them enough credit...that’s because there were so few of them...

I ask you to show me lists providing proof of your claims...you never do.

My whole contention was with another poster and you join in again trying to chance the subject of the post I made. I proved my list you claimed as wrong was truthful…I think you just like to argue even when you make no sense…good luck I am not wasting time with you anymore.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 12:47:37 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The Episcopal Church is the American province of the Anglican Communion...and 88 of the 204 so called founding fathers were Episcopalians. The largest single group.

HERE is one link..

Butch

Butch, I believe the Methodists also came from the Anglican church, correct?

I am no religious scholar but from what I could find the Methodists started as an off shoot of The Church of England in the early 1700's then moved to the Colonies...Georgia I believe around the 1760's

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 122

RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 1:15:38 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

established to escape conditions in Europe, flourished in the New World, like the Puritans and the Quakers, for example.

Not quite.

The American colonists who were persecuted - and 'some' were - persecuted others.

For example - the French Protestants (Hugeneots) persecuted others where they were dominant. John Calvin himself personally ordered the execution of non-Calvinists. Protestants persecuted Catholics; Catholics persecuted Protestants.

The people who went to the US weren't a surpressed people escaping a dominant state religion - they were a people who wanted to create the New Jeruslaem - their sect's idea of the New Jerusalem.

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RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 1:23:51 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am no religious scholar but from what I could find the Methodists started as an off shoot of The Church of England in the early 1700's then moved to the Colonies...Georgia I believe around the 1760's

Butch

The name 'Methodists' is actually an insult (a derogatory term applied to John Wesley and associates). My Grandfather was a Methodist; Grandma Salvation Army; Mother Church of England. But John Wesley was in effect a chancher. He shamelessy preyed on the fears of the people of the time. What stood them out from most is that they preached outdoors to mass audiences (there's a Methoduist preaching pit which seated thousands still standing in Cornwall - 1700s - of which I have a photo on this computer) and they targetted the impoverished and drunks (easy pickings).

In England Methodism was the religion of the towns and cities; the Church of England was the church of the shires.

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Post #: 124

RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 1:51:22 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

NG thankyou for that :)

Pleasure. Can I apply for a patent on the maple leaf covering your left nipple?

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Post #: 125

RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 2:59:24 PM

kdsub

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Thanks NorthernGent I had read all of that material but it was nice to hear it in a more personal way. I am a product of the Huguenots...although my relatives immigrated in 1750 they were German...but right on the border with France at the time. They came with a group of Huguenots that first settled in what was then N. Carolina but S. Carolina today...Then move south and east into the old 96 Districts and into Georgia.

Believe me I know my relatives history very well and they did not try to convert the Cherokee to Christianity. At first they tried to get along with the Indian populations but the influx of new settlers but pressure on the Cherokee and they attacked and massacred men women and children trying to flee to the south. After the massacre my relatives and their like took the Cherokee land for cotton plantations pure and simple… the powerful defeating the weaker. Although many of my relatives were killed in the Indian wars they forced the Cherokee to the north to take their land.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/8/2010 3:04:23 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NorthernGent)

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Post #: 126

RE: Wrong Theocracy - 1/8/2010 7:09:36 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You certainly read a lot in my words that I never say...and when I point out your mistakes you claim you already admitted to them...You are a hard person to make sense of...you claim I never listed Deist. I did you just did not read it...now you claim you did...Now you are saying I am not giving them enough credit...that’s because there were so few of them...

I ask you to show me lists providing proof of your claims...you never do.

My whole contention was with another poster and you join in again trying to chance the subject of the post I made. I proved my list you claimed as wrong was truthful…I think you just like to argue even when you make no sense…good luck I am not wasting time with you anymore.

Butch

There's a simile I remember reading that's coming to mind at the moment, it went something like debating with a certain sort of christian is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, poops on the board and then runs back to its flock to claim victory.

Ladies and Gentlemen, am I in the twilight zone or did no part of kdsub's post remotely resemble the discussion we had?

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Post #: 127