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What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:35:25 AM

jujubeeMB

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Does anyone have any fantasies that go beyond the realm of what you would consider healthy? And what do you do with these fantasies when they're rolling around in your mind insisting that you do something about them?

I'm struggling with a few of my own; my fantasy life (like that of most of the people on here, I'd imagine) is very rich, and frequently goes in directions I have very little control over. I won't get into specifics, but several are things that I'm completely mortified at being turned on by, as they're extremes of a psychological nature (and sometimes physical nature) that I know for a fact could be damaging if drilled into my psyche by acting them out over and over. How do you all deal with that when it happens, and where is the line for you between healthy and not?

Thanks for reading.

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:38:40 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

How do you all deal with that when it happens, and where is the line for you between healthy and not?

I don't act them out.

I know that might sound dismissive but fantasies are... well... fantasies. They are situations in our minds that we control and because we control them they are exactly what we want and we can picture ourselves responding to situations in ways we wouldn't really or doing things that we never really would.

When it becomes a problem is when you actually want to act them out, particularly if they involve others. But I don't see a reason why you can't enjoy them privately as long as you know that they are just your private down-time.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:43:14 AM

NihilusZero

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"Healthy" is inevitably subjective. Even deferring to physical health is a personal decision and gets wrapped up in the net-value assessment.

What is it about the consequences to your fantasies that makes you think they are unattainable or should be unattainable? Of course, the more extreme certain desires are, the more it behooves us to be vigilant of who we choose to share them with...but I don't know that I'd label any fantasy "too far" if the necessary parties involved are all consenting.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to jujubeeMB)

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:47:26 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

When it becomes a problem is when you actually want to act them out, particularly if they involve others.

Why? How can we make that determination before we even know what is being discussed or what elements are supposedly making up this a fantasy that is not worthy of becoming reality?

I'm not saying this as a means to extract more specificity about her fantasies, only to point out that we're not even sure what we're talking about. She could be thinking of just masturbating to midget porn, for all we know. Not saying it's an aesthetic preference of mine...

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:51:55 AM

jujubeeMB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What is it about the consequences to your fantasies that makes you think they are unattainable or should be unattainable?

Consequences I'd consider unhealthy would be doing permanent damage to my psyche. For instance, if I wanted someone to treat me like an inanimate object (re: sex toy, blow up doll, etc) all the time, and to actually believe that I was that, do you think there would be some lingering effects on my personality when I was out and about in the world? And how about my future relationships? Not saying that that particular fantasy is one of mine... just an example, really... :)

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 5

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:58:03 AM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Does anyone have any fantasies that go beyond the realm of what you would consider healthy? And what do you do with these fantasies when they're rolling around in your mind insisting that you do something about them?

I'm struggling with a few of my own; my fantasy life (like that of most of the people on here, I'd imagine) is very rich, and frequently goes in directions I have very little control over. I won't get into specifics, but several are things that I'm completely mortified at being turned on by, as they're extremes of a psychological nature (and sometimes physical nature) that I know for a fact could be damaging if drilled into my psyche by acting them out over and over. How do you all deal with that when it happens, and where is the line for you between healthy and not?

Thanks for reading.

I think if your fantasies are beginning to frighten you with their explicitness, you might like to take a step back and think for a bit about why you might be having that fantasy.

As an example, let's make the fantasy non sexual. If you are fantasizing about killing someone, why are you having that fantasy? My ex husband was a real bastard, and there were times where he was just so much so, that I fantasized not about killing him, but about his death. He made me angry and life would have been (and still would be) easier if he just ceased to exist. Usually the fantasy was that his now ex-wife (after me) killed him. It brought me comfort to think of both of them not being able to do everything to make my life miserable. Not a nice fantasy, but harmless.

Now on the other hand, if I were fantasizing about killing random people on the street just so that I could enjoy watching them die, well that's a bit different. I would wonder why I wanted strangers dead. Am I overly angry or what? I would probably seek some professional help to figure it out.

I'm assuming your fantasies are of a sexual nature, but of the darker, more extreme unusual type. As AquaticSub has said, if you don't act on them, there isn't a problem. You already know that it isn't something you really would want to do. Fantasies are great in that we can explore some darker things without retribution. But if they are truly starting to worry you and you feel that continuing to fantasize about it is not healthy for you and you can't figure out the "why" of it, whether the why is having no control, doing something out of character, whatever, then there is nothing wrong with seeking some professional guidance on the matter.

I'm not sure that helps at all. It is four in the morning and insomnia is making me think of killing someone. The point is that each individual is different. If you can't figure out what might be bringing it on, and your concern is becoming overwhelming, talk to someone. Sometimes the simplest reason can manifest itself into something very dark and sinister, but really be of no danger.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

Post #: 6

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:58:53 AM

littlewonder

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My fantasy is to marry a rich dom one day and never have to work another day in my life.

How do I deal with it? I keep hoping and praying for one day....hey it could happen!

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

Post #: 7

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 12:59:02 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Consequences I'd consider unhealthy would be doing permanent damage to my psyche. For instance, if I wanted someone to treat me like an inanimate object (re: sex toy, blow up doll, etc) all the time, and to actually believe that I was that, do you think there would be some lingering effects on my personality when I was out and about in the world?

I think that's a question better answered by honest introspection. Does being in a constant state of submission and servitude make slaves incompetent of thinking of themselves assertively/positively out in the world?

Aren't we just talking degrees and intensities? Could you handle one instance of being heavily objectified (understanding you want it because it makes you happy) without being paranoid that you have brainwashed yourself next time you're out in public? What about twice? Ten times? What if the berating was particularly intense?

If you are supressing something that would bring you happiness for the inability to relinquish the fear that it will compromise you somehow, I suspect you are already being "unhealthy" to yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

And how about my future relationships? Not saying that that particular fantasy is one of mine... just an example, really... :)

Well, by then presumably you've ironed out how much of your fantasies you can take and in what intensities and that information is always useful to have when seeking new relationship horizons.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:00:25 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

When it becomes a problem is when you actually want to act them out, particularly if they involve others.

Why? How can we make that determination before we even know what is being discussed or what elements are supposedly making up this a fantasy that is not worthy of becoming reality?

I'm not saying this as a means to extract more specificity about her fantasies, only to point out that we're not even sure what we're talking about. She could be thinking of just masturbating to midget porn, for all we know. Not saying it's an aesthetic preference of mine...

Honestly, NZ, because she has chosen not to share her specific fantasies, I can only assume that she wants to discuss the topic in general and not her specifics. So I go to the fantasies that I have that would be unhealthy for me to act out (which they would be though I prefer not to share them) and give my input based on that.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 9

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:01:34 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My fantasy is to marry a rich dom one day and never have to work another day in my life.

How do I deal with it? I keep hoping and praying for one day....hey it could happen!

I've got a plan. You buy me lottery tickets and, if I win big, I'll fulfill your fantasy.

Deal?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 10

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:02:05 AM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Consequences I'd consider unhealthy would be doing permanent damage to my psyche. For instance, if I wanted someone to treat me like an inanimate object (re: sex toy, blow up doll, etc) all the time, and to actually believe that I was that, do you think there would be some lingering effects on my personality when I was out and about in the world? And how about my future relationships? Not saying that that particular fantasy is one of mine... just an example, really... :)

Ok, well I was having trouble coming up with an example that didn't violate TOS. Let's say for a moment that you ARE fantasizing about that? You already know that you wouldn't enjoy it, it is nothing more than a fantasy Because you know that you really wouldn't enjoy it, you aren't likely to act on it, so there is no "lingering" effect. Now if you acted on it while still being so unsure, then yes, you would probably suffer some psychological damage if your suspicions of not liking it were correct.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

Post #: 11

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:03:03 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Honestly, NZ, because she has chosen not to share her specific fantasies, I can only assume that she wants to discuss the topic in general and not her specifics. So I go to the fantasies that I have that would be unhealthy for me to act out (which they would be though I prefer not to share them) and give my input based on that.

Do you refrain from fantasies that you have because of a fear of the presumed psychological impact, though, or because your partner would not likely happily consent to them?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:03:20 AM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My fantasy is to marry a rich dom one day and never have to work another day in my life.

How do I deal with it? I keep hoping and praying for one day....hey it could happen!

I've got a plan. You buy me lottery tickets and, if I win big, I'll fulfill your fantasy.

Deal?

Sigh...I'm too poor to even buy lottery tix. Such is my luck!

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 13

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:08:46 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Honestly, NZ, because she has chosen not to share her specific fantasies, I can only assume that she wants to discuss the topic in general and not her specifics. So I go to the fantasies that I have that would be unhealthy for me to act out (which they would be though I prefer not to share them) and give my input based on that.

Do you refrain from fantasies that you have because of a fear of the presumed psychological impact, though, or because your partner would not likely happily consent to them?

Oh... let's go with a mix of pyschological impact and they don't involve anyone I'd call a "partner".

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 14

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:09:40 AM

LafayetteLady

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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If you are supressing something that would bring you happiness for the inability to relinquish the fear that it will compromise you somehow, I suspect you are already being "unhealthy" to yourself.

I completely disagree. Many women may fantasize about being the star attraction in a gang bang. It is a fantasy, not the suppression of something that would necessarily bring them happiness. I know that I have fantasized about it, but I have no desire to act it out. I'm not "suppressing" anything, it is more a matter of knowing myself well enough to know that while it makes a nifty fantasy, the reality would not be the same as the fantasy.

It doesn't mean that I'm being "unhealthy" to myself, it means that I have a healthy imagination and don't need to act out every hedonistic thing that may come to mind.

Now while I used that example, I'm in no way saying that the women who have been the star attraction in a gang bang were in any way "wrong" for doing so. As long as that was what they chose to do.

The point is that not every fantasy is meant to become reality. A "healthy" person is able to figure out which ones will and will not be in their best interest to fufill.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 15

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:11:52 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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So...I don't think all examples would have to necessarily be ToS violations.

What examples can we drum up that we would consider potentially 'scarring' psychologically and can we determine we'd consider it as such?

We'd be talking likely of something that would have a heavy stereotypical negative impact but which is simultaneously enjoyed. So...it seems to me like it's an inner civil war: whether the acceptance of something that makes you happy wins or whether the inner guilt-trip of shame for having enjoyed it wins.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to littlewonder)

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:17:37 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Oh... let's go with a mix of pyschological impact and they don't involve anyone I'd call a "partner".

Which, I'm guessing, makes it a no go precisely because you have a partner.

Or are you alluding to situations where the fantasy specifically requires an element of uncontrolled variables that introduces new unknowable danger issues?

Like, say, a fantasy of getting gang-banged by or being part of a gangbang with 30 strangers; a situation that, by virtue of them being strangers, makes us strangers to their health statuses as well (thereby making for the chance of incurring numerous STDs). But what if the situation can get adjusted? Where we have 30 strangers who have passed physicals without any issue?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to AquaticSub)

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RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:19:28 AM

jujubeeMB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Now on the other hand, if I were fantasizing about killing random people on the street just so that I could enjoy watching them die, well that's a bit different. I would wonder why I wanted strangers dead. Am I overly angry or what? I would probably seek some professional help to figure it out.

My problem is really distinguishing between what are "normal" BDSM desires and what's stepping over the line into abuse and whatnot. I'm en route to becoming a therapist myself, and have spent many years therapy... that's actually what allowed me to admit I really wanted to act on my long standing submissive desires. I'm very self aware and feel positive about almost all sexual desires. Now the only problem is that I'm so open-minded, I don't know what's ok to accept in my fantasy life and what isn't. Another example: someone mentioned Nazi/Jew role playing in a previous thread - that definitely goes over to the dark side, in my opinion, if one person is actually Jewish. Not condemning it, but what results from derogatory, anti-Semitic speech in a deeply vulnerable psychological state? What if the person "playing" the Nazi really believes what they're saying? Is it "acting" that makes everything ok, where genuineness makes it dangerous? Or am I off base here?

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 18

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:27:15 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I'm not "suppressing" anything, it is more a matter of knowing myself well enough to know that while it makes a nifty fantasy, the reality would not be the same as the fantasy.

I don't think it makes sense to define fantasies as specifically things we think we want but don't really want. Otherwise no fantasies would happily come true. So what is the defining trait that makes us treat one fantasy as worth pursuing and the next not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It doesn't mean that I'm being "unhealthy" to myself, it means that I have a healthy imagination and don't need to act out every hedonistic thing that may come to mind.

Why not? What exactly is getting harmed in most of these hypothetical cases apart from our own subconscious moralities?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Now while I used that example, I'm in no way saying that the women who have been the star attraction in a gang bang were in any way "wrong" for doing so. As long as that was what they chose to do.

So, if they had a fantasy to do it an did do it, and aren't "wrong"...then the act itself is not "wrong". It is either a compatible act with someone's happiness or it isn't. So the question becomes: do some people have a neurological quirk that makes them desire things they really don't desire (which is a vague beginning basis for what constitutes most psychological disorders) or are people really inwardly wagging their own finger at themselves until they choose to shove their fantasies into the "think, don't do" box?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The point is that not every fantasy is meant to become reality. A "healthy" person is able to figure out which ones will and will not be in their best interest to fufill.

Not to turn this around on you, but to take your last sentence at face value, you have to be saying the OP is "not healthy: because she doesn't yet know. And how does that make sense when enacting one's fantasies is the sort of thing that people mostly assess after having tried it?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 19

RE: What's too far? - 1/10/2010 1:28:57 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Oh... let's go with a mix of pyschological impact and they don't involve anyone I'd call a "partner".

Which, I'm guessing, makes it a no go precisely because you have a partner.

Or are you alluding to situations where the fantasy specifically requires an element of uncontrolled variables that introduces new unknowable danger issues?

Like, say, a fantasy of getting gang-banged by or being part of a gangbang with 30 strangers; a situation that, by virtue of them being strangers, makes us strangers to their health statuses as well (thereby making for the chance of incurring numerous STDs). But what if the situation can get adjusted? Where we have 30 strangers who have passed physicals without any issue?

NZ, while I love ya, when I said I didn't want to share I wasn't being coy.

The situations you describe don't apply, STDs aren't a concern and it's not having a partner that stops me.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 20

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