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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:39:08 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		They said on the News tonight that Hillary Clinton is, "rushing back to Washington from Hono to help with the disaster."
Gee, that ought to give all the Americans living under bridges, abandoned buildings and homeless shelters tonight a warm fuzzy feeling in their hearts!


Why is it that our govt. wants to help everyone except U.S. Citizens?
Mia, "unusual occurrances?" Nothing is ever "history" until it happens.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/13/2010 4:41:08 PM >

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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:41:37 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Great post Merc.
We have always had "disasters" I suppose.
But am I the only one that has noticed how almost everything that happens
weather wise lately almost always breaks a record?
Now again, I am not a scientist {never even took Chemistry and barely passed Physics}.

But, I don't need to be a rocket scientist when almost everything from the frost in Florida,
to the earthquake in Haiti is breaking 200 and 300 records.
I guess just many coincidences?
I am sitting back and watching all these "coincidences" and record breaking tragedies.
These things really make me go hummm, and I ain't going to believe its just normal
weather stuff going on.
Peace

Mz Mia,

I also see things are 'a changin' - I blame it on getting old more than anything else. I don't apply any less validity to your opinion; having taken chemistry and passing physics, I represent no credibility greater than yours.

The problem with these trend based predictions is the data sampling available. I read from some source recently that the entire history of temperature tracking as compared to the age of the Earth, represented 0.0000000001% of earth's history. Along those lines, man's time on the planet represents a portion, not significantly different. Yet - the world has heated, cooled, had earthquakes, tsunamis, and experienced every natural catastrophe. That's the point - they are NATURAL.

I'm glad you are taking my post for its humorous intent! THANKS YOU SO MUCH!

BTW - I'm a BIG 'Coast to Coast' fan. beth and I go to sleep with it playing as background noise. He's a great source for these sort of things. I don't doubt that very soon, maybe tonight, George Noory will have a guest who represents he has absolute proof that this earthquake was a result of changing climate. I'll let you know if he does.

I enjoyed the perspective - it made me remember Plato! - THANKS AGAIN!

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:41:43 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I didnt realise she was secretary of homelessness

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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:42:07 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Geez it's easy  You simply use every means possible (excluding scientific data) to show everyone it is nothing but BS, why look the temperatures are going down!! Climate change is BS. 

Hmmm...It's Climate Change, not temperature change????  It is the long term effects of a warming CLIMATE not the temperature today, even though every study shows average temps are going up over the last 40 years.  Still FOX wins cause it's fun and dumb

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:44:20 PM   
Rhodes85


Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Earthquakes are the result of shifts along the faultlines in the earth's crust, not climate change.


What she said ^^

Technically they have not actually proven global warming even exists yet. Its just a theory. Even if it does exist there is no proof it is being caused by human activities (note: human emissions of greenhouse gasses are lower now than they were 200 years ago during the industrial revolution. Also, odd as it sounds, cows produce more greenhouse gasses than all human activities combined. Fact) The planet has gone through periods of warming and cooling since it was formed. That doesn't mean humans are responsible for anything. I might also point out its been getting progressively colder during winter around here for the last decade.

quote:

But, I don't need to be a rocket scientist when almost everything from the record breaking cold weather in Florida, to Hurricane Katrina, and all the other "unusual occurrences", and now to the earthquake in Haiti is breaking 200 and 300 year old records.
How many fucking records have been broken in the last 5 years????

 
records are broken every year. Thats nothing new. record breaking cold weather in florida also goes against global warming theories... Earthquakes, floods and hurricanes are nothing new.

quote:

I would not pretend to know WHY, I just know it IS.

 
Thats illogical. If you can't say you have a reason to believe why, there is not sufficient reason to claim that it is in the first place.


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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:45:35 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

This was the biggest earthquake in 200 years, what's next?

I am sitting back and just watching these days.

Mz Mia,

I'll give you this much; your theory, and the link, on the earthquake has the same science behind it as does global warming. Actually based upon the latest projected 20 year cooling period the correct reference, at least until summer, is 'climate change'.

The problem with the theory, or trying to apply it now to fit retroactively into the religion of global warming, is the inconvenient truth; there were many, and much more volatile earthquakes before Al Gore founded the religion. Either the climate was always changing and humanity did little, or nothing to contribute to it, or prior earthquakes were anomalies that occurred because there was no global warming. A paradox to say the least, wouldn't you say? Although a similarly fact based argument could be made that the advanced civilization of Atlantis was the cause of the last period of massive global warming and caused their destruction as documented by Plato. What do you think?

You can't help be right. When the next "big one" hits, they've been projecting one for my neck of the woods for at least 20 years, you have rights to; "I TOLD you so!" I equate it in predictive value to "I TOLD you I was sick!" written on the tombstone of a hypochondriac.


Great post Merc.
We have always had "disasters" I suppose.
But am I the only one that has noticed how almost everything that happens
weather wise lately almost always breaks a record?
Now again, I am not a scientist {never even took Chemistry and barely passed Physics}.
 
But, I don't need to be a rocket scientist when almost everything from the record breaking cold weather in Florida, to Hurricane Katrina, and all the other "unusual occurrences", and now to the earthquake in Haiti is breaking 200 and 300 records.
I guess just many coincidences?
I am sitting back and watching all these "coincidences" and record breaking tragedies.
These things really make me go hummm, and I ain't going to believe its just normal
weather stuff going on.
I am sort of wondering when pestilence is coming.
Peace


In fact, none of our current weather patterns have "set records", unless of course your research uses only shorter timelines, such as 50 years.

20,000 years ago the world was 3 degrees warmer than it is today.

300,000 years ago it was nearly 6 degrees warmer.

3,000,000 years ago, carbon levels in our atmosphere were even higher than they stand today (all from natural causes).

Barely a few hundred years ago Europe went through (as did the U.S. East coast, Midwest and most of Canada) a mini ice age.

Current experts in sun spot activity are indicating that we're about to experience another one....and in the same places.....during the next 20+ years, after which we'll see increasing temperatures again.

Interestingly, in each of the above described historical timelines, sunspot activity was/were at unprecedented heights.

Much as they are currently.

History, much like gold, really doesn't care about people's opinions....it just keeps doing what it does....tell the truth.

Revisionists, much like paper money, over time....always....disappear.

None of which is to say we couldn't and shouldn't be better stewards of this fabulous rock we all live on and continue to take from, but it is in fact to say that when humans need something new to worry about, whether housing, jobs, unemployment rates or the weather....facts generally get pushed aside for hyperbole.

(And as just one example....there are certainly thousands more....Florida had almost identical cold weather in 1989, barely 20 years previous...in almost every single one of the counties it is currently experiencing them....with almost identical economic results).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/13/2010 4:51:04 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:48:56 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Rhodes, go back to my topic line- I said the weather is changing.
 
This is not really a thread on WHY.
I will state this again, sigh--I don't know if it IS global warming, global cooling, a
combination of the 2 together, or some other "thing" people don't talk about.
My point is, the weather is changing rapidly period.
If you don't believe the weather is changing, you have every right to believe that!
 
It is enough for me to believe and see that it is.
Sorry, I won't take you or anyone elses ideas or opinions over what I can clearly SEE.
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/13/2010 5:05:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:53:00 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rhodes, go back to my topic line- I said the weather is changing.
 
This is not really a thread on WHY.
If you don't believe the weather is changing, you have every right to believe that!
 
It is enough for me to believe and see that it is.
Sorry, I won't take you or anyone elses ideas or opinions over what I can clearly SEE.
 


(Hon....you can check on this one all by yourself: The weather changes every day...and from the best data I can pull....it's expected to do so again tomorrow).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/13/2010 4:55:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 4:56:12 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rhodes, go back to my topic line- I said the weather is changing.
 
This is not really a thread on WHY.
If you don't believe the weather is changing, you have every right to believe that!
 
It is enough for me to believe and see that it is.
Sorry, I won't take you or anyone elses ideas or opinions over what I can clearly SEE.
 


(Hon....you can check on this one all by yourself: The weather changes every day...and from the best data I can pull....it's expected to do so again tomorrow)


Okay hon, thanks for the jokey joke.
lol
Its like that saying "Don't believe what your lying eyes can clearly see!"


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:01:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I didnt realise she was secretary of homelessness


or maybe a czar.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:03:58 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Which came first. climate change or earth quakes ???

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:13:43 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, a connection between climate and vulcanism/tectonic activity has been credibly discussed for many years. I recall reading about it as far back as the mid-80s, and there was some pretty good data backing it up. The idea was that the weight of ice packs and snow cover on continental plates exerts pressure on magma pockets below the crust, causing a slight but measurable increase in eruptive activity during winter months in the northern hemisphere, and especially during ice ages. Or increased sea levels might exert greater pressure on tectonic plates beneath the oceans, causing them to shift and deform.

The research I read only referred tangentially to fault displacement, dealing primarily with the relationship between snow and ice and vulcanism. The point of the research was to determine the possibility of a negative feedback loop, in which increased snowfall would lead to increased particulates in the atmosphere from increased vulcanism, leading in turn to cooler temperatures, leading in turn to increased snowfall, etc. But I have no problem at all believing that there is a correlation to earthquake activity; in fact, I'd be very surprised if it there weren't. The last glacier here in Minnesota melted over 10,000 years ago, but the land in Northern Minnesota is still rebounding at the rate of almost a half inch per year from the weight of that ice mass. (That's probably why Ron seems so dizzy sometimes; people who live up there must feel like they're on a roller coaster.) Anyway, if memory serves, the Lake Superior region has rebounded a couple of hundred meters since the retreat of the glacier, and is expected to rise at least another 150 over the next several thousand years. Unless it snows again, of course. But the point is, if you have that much continental mass shifting that much over a few thousand years in an area that's tectonically active to begin with, it's going to trigger earthquakes as faults shift in relation to one another. It's inevitable.

And I believe a relationship has also been suggested between rainfall and earthquake activity. This I don't know much about, because i didn't actually read any of the work. I just saw it referenced in a couple of other articles. The theory (as near as i can recall) is that prolonged heavy rainfall in certain areas can trigger earthquakes because increased groundwater acts as a lubricant between tectonic plates. I want to make clear that  I'm not defending that particular theory, because I haven't read the work. I'm just saying it's gotten some serious study over the last several years, so there may be something there.

The problem, though, is that while such events might very well be responsible for triggering earthquakes or volcanic eruptions, that's not the same as saying they actually caused them. That's an important distinction. What's more likely is that they just act as a catalyst for a geologic event that would have  occurred anyway; just (perhaps) not quite so soon. In other words, the quake in Haiti (if it were triggered by, say, rising sea levels), would have happened next year instead of this year. But it would have happened regardless, because the geologic forces that cause plates to shift (while they may be influenced by the weight of ice packs or seawater) are ultimately caused by factors that are completely independent of anything relating to climate.




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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:29:06 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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Status: offline 		Nicely put :)

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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:30:50 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
With all of the extreme weather we have witnessed for at least the past 8 years,
I wonder if there are STILL people that don't believe that the weather/climate is
changing drastically in a big way?


It may be changing. Climates change and shift over time. I am unconvinced that purchasing a Prius tomorrow will have any impact on it one way or the other.


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RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:41:34 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
With all of the extreme weather we have witnessed for at least the past 8 years,
I wonder if there are STILL people that don't believe that the weather/climate is
changing drastically in a big way?


It may be changing. Climates change and shift over time. I am unconvinced that purchasing a Prius tomorrow will have any impact on it one way or the other.



I totally agree, if certain "forces" are already in place, might as well just enjoy
your life!
Drive what ya like.


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:49:34 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
With all of the extreme weather we have witnessed for at least the past 8 years,
I wonder if there are STILL people that don't believe that the weather/climate is
changing drastically in a big way?


It may be changing. Climates change and shift over time. I am unconvinced that purchasing a Prius tomorrow will have any impact on it one way or the other.



I totally agree, if certain "forces" are already in place, might as well just enjoy
your life!
Drive what ya like.



What would those "forces" be exactly?




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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 5:53:24 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
With all of the extreme weather we have witnessed for at least the past 8 years,
I wonder if there are STILL people that don't believe that the weather/climate is
changing drastically in a big way?


It may be changing. Climates change and shift over time. I am unconvinced that purchasing a Prius tomorrow will have any impact on it one way or the other.



I totally agree, if certain "forces" are already in place, might as well just enjoy
your life!
Drive what ya like.



What would those "forces" be exactly?



Let your mind run free and your ass will follow.
I just asked if people think or thought the "weather appears to be changing".
Some do, some don't, great chat.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/13/2010 5:55:41 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 6:16:27 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:


Why is it that our govt. wants to help everyone except U.S. Citizens?
Because every time they try, the right-wing goes apeshit and starts screaming about the evils of socialism.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 6:36:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I didnt realise she was secretary of homelessness


Well gee Lucy, tell her that, she's worried about the "homeless" in Haiti now, not the homelessness in the U.S., fuck them let them freeze to death right?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Now Haiti!! The Big One/ Still don't believe the we... - 1/13/2010 6:44:39 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		mm now why havent you been bitching about homeless people before now? except to make a bash against hillary?
Also why now are you worried about what Hils doing...isnt she doing as her job description describes???
She is the secretary of State concerned with Foreign affairs yes??? Haiti might only be 90 miles away, but it does class as foreign. GASP what a terrible terrible woman




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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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Profile   Post #: 40
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