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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/16/2010 11:07:40 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The simple reason that your theoretical "solution" has no feasibility at all is because the cost factors involved in implementing and continuing it just won't work. First you have to train the people to train your army of "workers." Then you talk about providing them with some type of room and board? Where? These places don't already exist unless you figure you will give them soldiers barracks, but those are already filled with soldiers.




Gee.  We can't do this because we would have to build housing and chow halls.  Well, that certainly rules the whole thing out, doesn't it?  I'm irrational, Lafay???

Of course we are going to need cadre, and infrastructure, but those costs are going to be offset by the relief on every level of government to pay above-market wages and benefits for non/low-skilled grunt labor.  Did you bother to read the bit of the article I quoted that said the accumulted obligation for present and pending gov't pensions is better than $2 TRILLION and climbing?  It ain't gonna cost that much.  These are people who live off the taxpayer, no matter how critical their services might be, and they have a better deal than the people they serve?  Not sustainable.

California has one of the higher unemployment rates in the US right now, and is looking at a $20 billion deficit.  Do you know how many state workers have been laid off?  None.  The goverator declared furlough days to try and save some money, and these fucking ungrateful, entitled bastards took them to court over that.  Hell, the state hired an additional 1100 about a year ago to work the phones at the unemployment beaurocracy.  God forbid we should restructure the system, or expect a higher level of production from people lucky enough to still have jobs.

What I'm proposing would take a big chunk out of that.  The participants get free job training and experience.  They have invested in their country and community.  They get to earn some self-esteem by accomplishment.  If they are smart with the pay they earn, they leave with a stake in their pocket.  Over time, our country gets a great unifying factor, as all of us have served.

Spare me the personal attack.  You don't seem to have enough aptitude to make it interesting.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/16/2010 11:30:16 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

How do you think the Pentagon feels about compulsory service?



It's a building, Rex, I don't think it feels much of anything

Ok, couldn't help myself...

The official line is that an all-volunteer force is going to better motivated.  Side benefit, it doesn't draw out the protesters the way a draftee army being sent off to war can.  On the other hand, FDR had the draft rolling well before our entrance to WWII and I seem to recall we did ok in that one.

I think one way to address this is by making some form of service mandatory, but let the individuals decide how they will meet the obligation.  Peace Corps, or Marine Corps?  Home community based, or any community BUT home, based?  Let them take some standardized aptitude tests and see their results.  Build in a lot of options.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 12:19:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Most unions have outlived their purpose.



Unions haven't outlived their purpose. They balance of power may swing too much in the unions' favour at times but that's a matter of the details rather than the principle.

One consequence of the demise of unions in England is that business and the government have circumvented 400/500 years of hard won employee 'rights' by simply bringing in people from Eastern Europe who will work longer hours for less money.

I for one don't think it's a bad thing that English people have the power to dictate a decent wage and for decent hours and I think we're storing up problems by ignoring 400 years of our history (at the expense of British workers) and bringing in cheap labour from elsewhere.

Tell you what - I wouldn't be very happy were thousands of business managers and accountants to turn up from Eastern Europe offering to work for less money - would you? Perhaps the unions retain a purpose.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 7:57:55 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Additionally--like monopolies, unions don't have the amazing power people imagine them to have. They are still limited by real forces, by supply and demand, by costs and productivity, and so ultimately business and labor are manipulating around a rather small piece of turf bounded by those curves.

I would argue unions don't have enough power within that turf. No one argues big business doesn't.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/17/2010 7:59:17 AM >

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 9:32:56 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady



You may have a point, but one HUGE step to improving the situation would be to eliminate tenure. Teachers who still work towards seeing that "spark" of light in a student's eyes would be rewarded and those who were resting on their laurels and doing a suck ass job would be gone. Tenure and seniority don't have to be the same thing. But everyone wants to be rewarded for a job well done. In all honesty, I would love to see some parent involvement become mandatory. Why? Because I have had teachers turn to ME for help with some of my son's friends because of their parents lack of involvement. Neither parents or teachers can take on the job of education without the assistance of the other. And you really don't even want to ask me about all these stupid tests. It isn't an accurate gauge of what the kids are learning. It is just a gauge of how well they are taught how to take tests.


There is obviously a great deal wrong with primary and secondary education in this country and I appreciate your concern, LL. It is one we all share, I would guess. As I said, I don't have a solution. If it is any consolation the concern for the short comings of our public educational system go back to its founding and yet we have managed to muddle through considering the diversity of our population. I suggest that should be considered when you compare us to other nations. It is not an apples to apples comparison. The real measure is do students from other countries still wish to come here to study? I think the answer is an unqualified Yes.

Regarding teacher tenure. In Florida new teachers go through a probationary period of two or three years (I forget which) before tenure is granted. During that time it is the Administration's responsibility to offer a Continuing Contract or not. Maybe three years is too short a time. Maybe five would be more functional. It would allow the Admin to judge more thoroughly and it would permit the failing teacher, being young enough, to find another career. We should also recall that a teacher's education requires an apprenticeship period with a mentor in a real classroom before the new teacher earns her degree.

But I would be distressed to imagine a 50 year old teacher without tenure run afoul of a vengeful Administrator, and be out on the street with nothing. Even her pension would be gone I think under the current rules. If not, she would not receive what little pension she qualified for until age 62. I realize this has become a problem in the corporate world and I anguish for those who have lost jobs at an advanced age. Teacher salaries do not match those of the corporate community. Security is an important part of the job attraction.

Regarding what Unions can and cannot do. Florida Public Employee Unions and the Federal Employees Unions have been subject to "no strike" laws ever since I can remember. The rules of conduct for teachers' unions in Florida are negotiated on the local level. I do not know what more you would wish to curtail.

Thanks again for sharing your concerns.









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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 9:48:55 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


Let me put this on a purely selfish, personal level for you, since I think your mouth-frothing, irrational response is stemming from that anyway.  How much more money would the school district have for both books AND your pension, if the janitors and cafeteria service workers had about a two-year turnover, instead of them getting paid for life, too?

Sorry if my idea is just too much for you to wrap your brain around.  Well, sorry for you, and the students unfortunate enough to have done involuntary servitude in your classroom.


Is your personal attack supposed to make me shrink in fear, Rich? Don't be an idiot. Try not to be anyway. So, let me get this straight, you think we should sacrifice the economic lives of janitors and cafeteria service workers so the school districs will have more money for pensions and school books? And you have done the math on the savings, considering that the workers you would displace are probably close to minimum wage or if unionized at a lower wage. And again then what becomes of their healthcare, mortgage payments, money saved to send their children to college? Do we put them on the dole? Obviously you have no rational answers.

Let me sum up my thoughts this way:

1. your proposal is cruel to older, needier workers.

2. your proposal for madatory service would unlikely pass the test of the 13th Amendment

3. my students did not do involuntary servitude; it was mandatory attendence. They could sit there and do nothin if they wished. No one forced them to work.

4. your proposal reminds me of Hitler's Youth Corp

5. your proposal is idiotic.

NFL Game time. Bye for now.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 10:19:58 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


Let me sum up my thoughts this way:

1. your proposal is cruel to older, needier workers.

Who have spent their working lives as leeches on the taxpaying public

2. your proposal for madatory service would unlikely pass the test of the 13th Amendment

Try getting out of jury duty on the 13th Amendment. 

3. my students did not do involuntary servitude; it was mandatory attendence. They could sit there and do nothin if they wished. No one forced them to work.

Obviously no one forced them to work.  You were just there putting in time for your paycheck and pension, right?

4. your proposal reminds me of Hitler's Youth Corp

Then you weren't paying attention, or you are trying to derail an idea you don't like by provoking Godwin's Law.

5. your proposal is idiotic.

Yeah, you've said that, and every reason you've come up has been completely unreasoned bullshit.

NFL Game time. Bye for now.

Feel free to watch the postgame show and analysis. 


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 12:00:28 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Who have spent their working lives as leeches on the taxpaying public



I would have thought that politics is a matter of people coming together to protect shared interests and this involves public services. I believe this is accepted Western wisdom and can't really see how this equates to 'leeches'.

Do you extend this sentiment to the army?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 12:11:23 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Gee.  We can't do this because we would have to build housing and chow halls.  Well, that certainly rules the whole thing out, doesn't it?  I'm irrational, Lafay???

Of course we are going to need cadre, and infrastructure, but those costs are going to be offset by the relief on every level of government to pay above-market wages and benefits for non/low-skilled grunt labor.  Did you bother to read the bit of the article I quoted that said the accumulted obligation for present and pending gov't pensions is better than $2 TRILLION and climbing?  It ain't gonna cost that much.  These are people who live off the taxpayer, no matter how critical their services might be, and they have a better deal than the people they serve?  Not sustainable.

California has one of the higher unemployment rates in the US right now, and is looking at a $20 billion deficit.  Do you know how many state workers have been laid off?  None.  The goverator declared furlough days to try and save some money, and these fucking ungrateful, entitled bastards took them to court over that.  Hell, the state hired an additional 1100 about a year ago to work the phones at the unemployment beaurocracy.  God forbid we should restructure the system, or expect a higher level of production from people lucky enough to still have jobs.

What I'm proposing would take a big chunk out of that.  The participants get free job training and experience.  They have invested in their country and community.  They get to earn some self-esteem by accomplishment.  If they are smart with the pay they earn, they leave with a stake in their pocket.  Over time, our country gets a great unifying factor, as all of us have served.

Spare me the personal attack.  You don't seem to have enough aptitude to make it interesting.


As vincentML keeps pointing out, you make no provision for those that would now be out of work. What exactly are they going to do to earn the money needed to support their families? It doesn't matter whether or not you believe they are doing a great job or that their jobs require "no skill." The bottom line is that they have jobs, which under your ridiculous theory, they wouldn't. So even on the outside miraculous chance that there were savings to be garnered from your idea, there would be higher numbers of people who would need assistance just to keep a roof over their families heads, and food in their stomachs.

Honestly, you have been attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you. It is people like you who *think* they know all the answers who are a drain on society. No one is saying that our current system is perfect just the way it is. No system is perfect. But when the ideas are as flawed as yours, most would rather have the status quo remain. The fact that you clearly have no idea about reality is glaringly obvious. The fact that you need to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you just proves that you are as much of an asshole as you appear to be.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 12:58:39 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I give what I get, Lafay.  I am not a Christian, but I am a sadist.  If people don't want me to stick needles in their tits, they shouldn't lead with a nipple .  There are any number of posters here who I disagree with on a regular basis, yet can have a perfectly civil discussion with.  I am who I am.

If you had bothered to read the article in the first post, you would be aware of the disgusting inequities in pay and benefits that have grown between we the people, and those who are in our employ.  Ask the guy who drives a water truck for a private construction firm how he feels about the guy who does it for a municipal gov't earning twice what he does, with a pension he can only dream of.  When did we come to a place of simply accepting that gov't jobs should be better than private sector ones?

Of course people are going to lose their jobs.  It happens all the time.  My favorite uncle was fired a few months ago, four months shy of having been with the company for forty years.  Why should public servants be any different?  Are they somehow more special and privileged than those who sweat to pay their salaries?  Do you believe that public sector workers are incompetent to find other work?  Then we have those who have ceased to have any conception of what they do being public service.  Did you note the contempt expressed for our youth by someone who insists he be granted credibility because he spent 30 years teaching them? 

Here is something you can try.  Go to the website, www.city-data.com and plug in your zip code.  Who is the biggest employer in your community?  The state?  The county?  City?  Federal government?   How much do they actually contribute to the economy?  Remember, no government body, at any level, can spend one nickel without first taking it from someone else.

What I'm proposing would certainly create a transitional ripple through the economy, but on the far side, the benefits and savings (both fiscal and social) are going to far outweigh the costs.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:40:54 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Of course people are going to lose their jobs.  It happens all the time.  My favorite uncle was fired a few months ago, four months shy of having been with the company for forty years.  Why should public servants be any different?  Are they somehow more special and privileged than those who sweat to pay their salaries?  Do you believe that public sector workers are incompetent to find other work?  Then we have those who have ceased to have any conception of what they do being public service.  Did you note the contempt expressed for our youth by someone who insists he be granted credibility because he spent 30 years teaching them? 



It is not the problem I debate; it is the solution offered. Instead of raising and protecting the offended such as your uncle, your solution is to bring down another group. That is the flaw of your plan. That is the germ of tyranny you wish to impose with your cheap labor plan.

I was not showing contempt for students; I was demonstrating to you how unrealistic your Orwellian social engineering scheme is by dramatizing real life events I have encountered. The accusation of contempt is your device to distract from your idiocy that you think you can reorganize society to suit your desires. That is what Fascism was all about.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/17/2010 1:50:01 PM >

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:48:02 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Pushing Godwin pretty hard now, aren't you Vince? 

If you come up with something intelligent to add, that's fine.  Go on back to your football otherwise.  I'm done with you.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:53:17 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I am not a Christian, but I am a sadist. 

My favorite uncle was fired a few months ago, four months shy of having been with the company for forty years.  Why should public servants be any different? 


See, here is part of the problem- your posts indicate that your real agenda here is not to propose a workable solution to help the economy. Instead, you really just want to stick it to the public workers, and make them feel pain.

Maybe instead of trying to treat public workers as unfairly as your uncle, wouldn't it be better to treat private sector workers better?

I think a program of service like the Civilian Conservation Corps would be a good thing, to absorb some of the unemployed workers, and provide training during the Recession, instead of just handing out unemployment benefits. I also think that encouraging young people to enlist in some form of service, whether it be military or Peace Corps, or VISTA, would be a good idea.

But making the country a better, happier place isn't really what you are interested in, is it?

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:56:43 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Well Rich, I am in a employee union.
We have had many "union" debates around here.
 
Are you against only government unions or all unions?
What is it you vehemently hate about unions?
What union members make? the power unions haves? the pensions? the job security?

You know you can't win this one Rich.
I am in one of the professions being seriously debated here, and I am not even going to
get involved in that debate or part of this thread.
I will say you have really rilled many up here Rich, I am not going to get my panties in a bunch.
I am going to get another glass of wine, and thank the Goddess for my wonderful job with its nice union.
I will also mention, that I normally work late at least 3 days a week, and often
have some work to bring home.
*I am salaried and get no overtime, for the normally 50 hours a week I work.*
I look forward to my pension and retiring from my union job.

Rich, stop sipping the haterade.


Mia, I liked the old days when if a kid gave a teacher some lip they could smack the shit out of them and when the parents found out, they'de kick the bejasus out of the kid.
I had a seventh grade english teacher who'd "gnoogie" you right on the top of the head if you wearn't paying attention, man did that hurt!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/17/2010 1:58:31 PM >

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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:57:03 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Pushing Godwin pretty hard now, aren't you Vince? 

If you come up with something intelligent to add, that's fine.  Go on back to your football otherwise.  I'm done with you.


You just can't take criticism, Rich. Can't accept the audacity of others here who would disagree with your insane scheme. Must be hard on the old ego to feel so alone with no one patting you on the back and praising you for clear thinking which you obviously lost somewhere on your way to your computer. You are done with me? I shall not shed a tear. Not one.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 1:58:44 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

What is the teacher supposed to do? Fail the student. I'm talking about kids who DID do the work. How do I know? I know what their high school grades were. As I said in another post, the kids aren't being taught the basics of spelling and grammar or how to properly write an essay.


Agreed, the kid(s) should fail the course. Sadly, teachers are SOMETIMES told by administration to pass kids anyway. There is no benefit to the teacher if the kid repeats a grade if they are failed so I don't see why a teacher would pass a kid just for the hell of it.

I'm still curious as to how you know the kids did the work and the teachers didn't. You don't mention whether their grades are higher than they should be or just barely passes. I do however agree that kids are making it into - and through - college without basic grammar skills, I see it in the letters I correct and put into my hospital system for my doctors. About 3/4 of them have to be more or less completely rewritten as the docs have no clue how to write in English - which is their first language by the way.

quote:

Really? So they regularly stay after school to tutor students? Your father didn't spend time with his family because of all the extra work he had to do? Keep in mind, we are in two different countries. I can't say what Canadian teachers do or don't do, although I would be willing to bet that Canadian students, like those in Europe are getting a better education than many students here in the US.


As a matter of fact they did stay to help students and I'm sure my father would have spent time with my sis and I had we been home, which we often weren't. However we always ate supper together and spent time together as a family on the weekends, as well as taking frequent trips together. I certainly don't feel there was a lack of together time.

Okay, I confess that when I wrote "sucks the life out of you" I was thinking more of my own job than that of teachers. Nonetheless I do know that my father and his fellow teachers at his school were counting the days until retirement. This was mainly because the kids at that school were near impossible to control, along with the gangs which had formed in the last years before retiring.

Noone is forced to teach in inner city schools (as far as I know) but these days people go where the jobs are. I would imagine that there is a higher turnaround of jobs at inner city schools due to the stress of teaching there so it makes sense to me that there would be more job availability there.

Where did I ever say teachers suffer more injustices than anyone else?

I do know that my father had to use vastly out of date books because newer ones were rarely bought. Try teaching when you don't have the tools you need to teach.

Oh, by the way, you still haven't explained how you know for a fact that your kid's teachers didn't do a whole lot of work outside school. I'm really curious as to what proof you have of this.


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RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 2:11:36 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

See, here is part of the problem- your posts indicate that your real agenda here is not to propose a workable solution to help the economy. Instead, you really just want to stick it to the public workers, and make them feel pain.

Maybe instead of trying to treat public workers as unfairly as your uncle, wouldn't it be better to treat private sector workers better?

I think a program of service like the Civilian Conservation Corps would be a good thing, to absorb some of the unemployed workers, and provide training during the Recession, instead of just handing out unemployment benefits. I also think that encouraging young people to enlist in some form of service, whether it be military or Peace Corps, or VISTA, would be a good idea.

But making the country a better, happier place isn't really what you are interested in, is it?



You've got me wrong here, Rex.  I mentioned my uncle to point out the realities of the workplace that some are so desperate to shelter our poor abused public employees from.  He's pissed, and justifiably so I think, but his pension was through the trade union rather than the company.  (Sorry if that doesn't play into the "TheHeretic hates unions" strawman.  Oh well)  The company saved themselves a gold watch and a party.  They also showed the guys who have been there 5 or 15 years what sort of loyalty they can look forward to. 

I most certainly am interested in improving the state of the country.  Public service is something all us of should contribute to, rather than it being the exclusive domain of a privileged class who have come to believe they are entitled to better than what the people who pay their salaries get.  A plan such I have suggested would accomplish that.  We would all be personally invested in making our communities work.  That's a positive, don't you think?


< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 1/17/2010 2:14:17 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 2:36:33 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
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Status: offline
Heretic-
OK, I will take you at your word-
Here is the gist of your original proposal:
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I think we need to fundamentally alter where our public servants come from.  Mandatory national service.  We replace the spoiled and bloated employment rolls with draftees, from the federal level, all the way down to a community services district.  Patching potholes, administering the DMV eye test, writing parking tickets, guarding prison inmates...  These aren't high skill jobs.  It won't cover every job we need covered, but a barracks full of young people performing their national service is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than what we are doing.


You are going to replace unionized public sector workers with non-union young enlistees with the goal of making it cheaper.

Well yes, younger less experienced people are certainly cheaper, and non-unionized employees are certainly cheaper.

But would they be better? Or even as good?

Desite your references to filling potholes or administering eye exams, the majority of the public sector is just like the private sector. Only a small minority of job in any field, can be done by raw untrained people. The vast majority of jobs have to be filled by highly trained and experienced people.

For example, in my field of architecture, we deal all the time with public sector civil engineers who check our plans for buildings and roads and bridges, to make sure they are safe; is a raw 18 year old kid going to replace them?
God I hope not!

These engineers are unionized, and make better money and benefits than their private sector counterparts.
BUT....they make far, far less than the private sector engineering principals, who own their own firms. Its like the old saying, that in public sector you will never be broke, but you will never be rich; the spread between a raw entry level engineer and a senior department head is much smaller than in the private sector.

But getting beyond pay- do we always want the cheapest result? Isn't there something to be said for a system that emphasizes caution and responsibility rather than speed and cost?

I am harping on thsi for a reason- there is an erroneous assumption that the benefits offered by the private sector- speed and cheapness- are always the thing wee want.
The public sector offers equality of service and availability, regardless of ability to pay. For instance, everyone gets a public street frontage, a sewer and water hookup, free eductation, and electric power availability, even if it isn't profitable for the public to offer it. This provide all kinds of benefits to society, by making everyone into a consumer of products.

The public sector utilities and schools who create the roads and power and education do not give us these things at the cheapest cost- but they do give them to a wider availability than the private sector ever could.

And that is what makes it worth the extra money we pay.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 2:51:12 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Rex, I gave only the barest of descriptions for how I think such a program should and could work.  One never knows how such a thread is going to run.  I was hoping we might see other suggestions for addressing the pension bomb, and growing inequities between public and private sector work.  We wound up here. 

You have raised some very good questions.  I'll get a more detailed version of what I envision posted, but it's just going to have to wait.  I have a much better offer on my plate for the rest of the day. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: How Public Servants Became our Masters - 1/17/2010 3:04:56 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hey! Let's all get jobs at the State Dept and then we can all make plenty of money and not have to do anything for it!
And nobody can even come close to their benefits!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 80
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