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how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:06:14 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about the concept of love lately. I used to think that love was the most important aspect of any significant other-type of relationship. I was with someone I was deeply in love with for 20 years. Our relationship faltered early and often for reasons other than love--mostly my distrust and his insecurity--but because we were in love we stuck it out for 20 years. I finally got to a point where quite literally love was not enough and I ended things. (The relationship was completely vanilla.)

I am now in a relationship with my owner and while we do love each other, I don't feel that our love for each other is the most important part of our relationship. We do tell each other "I love you" every day, but I feel like the more important statement I make every day is "I'm yours," in reference to his authority over me, my complete trust of him, and my utter devotion to him. I feel that if our love died for some reason, I would still want to be in the relationship because of his authority over me and my trust and devotion.

Our society prizes romantic love. Maybe I'm a cynic, but all the Valentine's Day stuff and other valorizations of romantic love just put me in a foul mood. I've had the relationship based on romantic love and more often than not, it sucked. The love I feel for my owner is quite different from the romantic love Hallmark cards address. Hallmark cards are all about love that makes people giddy. With my owner, love feels stable and comforting, and it's his power over me and my sexuality that gives me the giddy, butterflies-in-my-stomach feeling.

I'm curious about
  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that



P.S. If you think this is a stupid or boring topic, I invite you to protest by not posting to the thread rather than by calling me a stupid vapid bitch or telling me that this topic has been addressed before and I should use the "search" function.

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“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi
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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:10:28 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think it is a good question. For me, I used to think romantic love was the most important thing in a relationship; that and passion.

I always had both.

What it took me ages to discover was that compatibility is more important than chemistry. No amount of heat can make up for things if you just do not basically get along or have the same core values or commitment or goals.

Ideally, you would fall in love with someone you are compatible with and many may say how could you fall in love with someone who is not totally compatible? I am here to tell you that you can, I did and it is the most frustrating thing in the world to be in love with the wrong person, for you.

It is sort of like a cruel joke, but it does happen.


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:18:55 PM   
FelineFae


Posts: 7756
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline 		* There are many forms of love, "romantic" is just one of them.
So yes, i believe in love.

* i, personally, do not think i would be fulfilled if love was not a part of the relationship. If other emotions were missing, again, i would not be fulfilled.

* Same as above.

Hope this can help- fae

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:20:41 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I'm curious about
  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that


P.S. If you think this is a stupid or boring topic, I invite you to protest by not posting to the thread rather than by calling me a stupid vapid bitch or telling me that this topic has been addressed before and I should use the "search" function.

There are actually some good threads on love (romantic and otherwise) from the past.  You might enjoy reading them.  You never know.  Someone from back then might have felt exactly the same way you do.

I do believe in romantic love.  It is the kind of love that I have with My primary partner.

Romantic love is not a component of My dynamic.  However, please understand that I am a firm believer in different kinds of love for different situations.  While I love My boy a great deal, I am not in love with him, nor is he in love with Me.  That doesn't make it better or worse than anyone else's type of love.  It's just ours.

In My opinion, a successful D/s or M/s dynamic doesn't have to necessarily incorporate romantic love, or any other kind of love for that matter.  It only has to involve whatever it is that the participants want there to be.


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:26:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		An hour ago, I posted the following on a very similar thread that was started just over an hour ago.

Control of emotions, and how long has it taken for love to develop?


For me, I've discovered I need love (or the potential for love) to be there.

I'm an inherently dominant woman. That's my perception of myself based on the fact that being the leader and having the dominant role in a relationship is what feels most natural to me. I feel that I come by it naturally, honestly, instinctively, romantically, sensually, sexually, etc. I am also a sensual sadist. Plainly, I get aroused from teasing and torturing a man and watching him squirm, his discomfort and vulnerability bringing out a very cruel and lustful, yet paradoxically loving, creature in me. I don't fetishise the man, but rather, find all of this even more pleasurable and natural when I'm with a strong, intelligent gentleman that I know intimately and love. However, this is not the image commonly portrayed of the dominant woman.

I've never claimed to be a pure, virgin girl. I am however a genuinely good girl with a twisted streak. I have my Domina puttons that can be pushed too and when they are, I can be a huge pervert. I love to seduce, see a man's eyes glazed over, watch his chin drop, etc. I like to toy with boys! But when all the flirting is said and done, I would rather live all of this within the realm of a relationship. What lovely intimacy this all creates! I have never experienced love making that brings mind, soul and body together than the lovemaking that includes power exchange with sadistic pain and pleasure.

I could never do the cruel and wicked things I do to a man I didn't adore. I would feel like a monster. I mean yes I've played with boys who were play subs, but I was terribly fond of them, and it never went as far as with the ones I've adored.

- LA


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:29:27 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that
Good question!
Having come out of a completely loveless marriage a bit under 2 years ago, I have to admit that the butterflies/ Hallmark stuff was what I thought I wanted at first. I was new to BDSM at the time (I still consider myself new), and doing a lot of research and reading, holding off on getting involved until I knew myself and what I really want better.
For me, things have changed, and what I look for now is mostly compatibility, ability to let go and trust my partner, and bonus points for guys who can make me laugh.
I can't really answer the third question, as it's something I haven't yet experienced, but I would hope that love and affection are in the mix somewhere. I'm a "touchwhore" and couldn't be happy in a relationship that didn't involve physical affection.


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:35:26 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I am wildly and passionately in love with him. But...it's not a romantic love because I'm not a romantic type of person.
I think I'm a little confused because you seem to equate love with romance. It isn't always so. It's 1:30 in the morning so that's probably why I may be misinterpretting....

I have had a marriage(vanilla) of 20 years where love was the basis. I have had relationships (bdsm) where there was no love at all. They never lasted long. My relationship now (bdsm) is love based and I am confident it will last the second half of my life. At least that's what we're planning.

For me...love is a requirement for a successful relationship. But not a romantic love.
I know none of that made any kind of sense.




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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 10:39:09 PM   
OMGlikegagme


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/22/2010
Status: offline 		I think this is an interesting topic, and I think my views on it are likely to be pretty unpopular.

In a power exchange dynamic, romantic feelings are not at all important to me.  In fact, I think romantic feelings would be a detriment.  But I've no intention of making a power exchange relationship into a lifetime commitment. 

I will be in love with the person with whom I spend my life.  When it comes to play partners--affection and mutual interests are important.  Compatibility is important.  But sappy romantic feelings or anything resembling romantic love strikes me as a terrible idea.  I'm very upfront about this.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/1/2010 11:07:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not


Of course I believe in romantic love... even if I did not believe in it for myself, I know it exists for other people (I do believe in it for myself too)

quote:

how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings


It is a part of all the other feelings and emotions for me, it is the subtext of it, the passion of it. It changes in ways as the years tick by, but it is still present. It is in the look on his face when he moves into dom space. It is on mine when I go into subspace...

quote:

what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that


I value our friendship more than anything else, and yet the friendship means all the more because of the love... can't separate them.



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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 1:20:43 AM   
ForeverOwned


Posts: 269
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline 		i grew up in an era where we were told that Prince Charming would come and all your dreams would come true, and they did, but in truth he is my Prince Charming. Someone else may not care for him or have the same dreams as i do, but he is right for me.

Romantic love is wonderful, but if we didn't have our friendship, compatibillity, and our ability to over look some of our imperfections it would never have lasted almost 32 years.

Romance is different for some than for others. Some think romance is fancy dinners and expensive gifts. Romance for me is if i am too tired to do something, without having to ask  him he does it.  It's coming up behind and hugging me and kissing me on the neck to make me laugh when i get mad.

Love for me is everything. While i could date someone without loving them; i could never marry or live the type of lifestyle that i do without it.

For me a successful relationship would include respect and a reality check every once in a while. We have blended BDSM and the Vanilla to where it's not games or scenes it's just a part of our lives. That's how we like it.

It took us years to get to where we are, and while he had more knowledge than me when we met. We bascially learned all of this together, and we were able to mold it into something that is right for the both of us.

Communication is also important, i feel that if you fear the person you are with and are fearful of talking to them then your relationship is not healthy.

i may fear a punishment, but i never fear him, because i know him well enough to know that he will do what is right.

Too many peoploe jump into "relationships" for the wrong reasons and they end up getting hurt. You will often hear :He changed." or " i never knew he was like that."  He didn't change he was always like that. In truth the two of you didn't take the time to get to know each other really well before you became serious.

Anyway, romantic love is grand, but to be loved by a true heart that is priceless.

< Message edited by ForeverOwned -- 2/2/2010 1:35:42 AM >

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 2:06:24 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not


Yes I do believe in romantic love, I view romantic love as the long-lasting type of love, the kind that is more "fondness and affection and devotion" and less "passion and sparks."

quote:

how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings


There are a few feelings that need to be present, romantic love is one of them. It's absolutely necessary, it's the difference between a friendship and a relationship.

quote:

what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that


Love is a lot more important than BDSM, or overt D/s. By overt D/s I mean being with a partner who identifies as "dominant" and wants a reltionship dynamic based on that. I'd rather be with a patriarchal vanilla man who I loved, than a "dominant" who I didn't.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 3:34:42 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply.........

I don't much care about romantic love. To me, it is a shallow thing, full of false expectations built on poor or non communication. I do not hold much value for romance.

What I need from most of my relationships is a different and more lasting love. A love that does not need sappy cards, birthdays and anniversaries remembered always, romantic dinners and scheduled date nights. One that does not die if I gain or lose 20 pounds, get richer or poorer, gray hair or bald, lose body parts because of illness, or am wearing heels and skirt versus wool socks and sweats. It still flourishes when I am without makeup and hair standing on end as much as it does when I am done to the nines. It only gets stronger after a hearty door slamming "FUCK YOU!!!" argument and doesn't care at all how many hot asses the other person looks at.

In my world, romance is over rated. It's for amateurs. It's the bait on many a new relationship hook. Then, after it's died due to daily life, the relationship dies. I don't want a young woman's romance novel vision of love. I want people around me that are being their authentic self and loving me for mine. I don't care if I EVER get another sappy flowers and hearts card. Just show me that your going to be here with me through the good and the bad. That you've got my back half as well as I've got yours. Laugh with me, at me, at me laughing at you. Make me laugh when I can't see much to laugh about. Be ready with a hug or encouraging smile when life gets crappy.

If what I've described is someone elses version of romance then perhaps I am seeing it wrong. But my vision of romantic is only pretty for awhile, then tends to crack and crumble with time. I prefer something with a stronger foundation.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 4:01:51 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply.........

I don't much care about romantic love. To me, it is a shallow thing, full of false expectations built on poor or non communication. I do not hold much value for romance.

What I need from most of my relationships is a different and more lasting love. A love that does not need sappy cards, birthdays and anniversaries remembered always, romantic dinners and scheduled date nights. One that does not die if I gain or lose 20 pounds, get richer or poorer, gray hair or bald, lose body parts because of illness, or am wearing heels and skirt versus wool socks and sweats. It still flourishes when I am without makeup and hair standing on end as much as it does when I am done to the nines. It only gets stronger after a hearty door slamming "FUCK YOU!!!" argument and doesn't care at all how many hot asses the other person looks at.

In my world, romance is over rated. It's for amateurs. It's the bait on many a new relationship hook. Then, after it's died due to daily life, the relationship dies. I don't want a young woman's romance novel vision of love. I want people around me that are being their authentic self and loving me for mine. I don't care if I EVER get another sappy flowers and hearts card. Just show me that your going to be here with me through the good and the bad. That you've got my back half as well as I've got yours. Laugh with me, at me, at me laughing at you. Make me laugh when I can't see much to laugh about. Be ready with a hug or encouraging smile when life gets crappy.

If what I've described is someone elses version of romance then perhaps I am seeing it wrong. But my vision of romantic is only pretty for awhile, then tends to crack and crumble with time. I prefer something with a stronger foundation.


I can't say it any better.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 4:07:59 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		We've been together nearly 8 years, of course we don't still have that giddiness that comes with the first flush of love. But love is one of the basic building blocks of our relationship. Along with liking each other and respecting each other. D/s makes our relationship run easier but we could still have a relationship without it, even if we had to agree on what to do before doing it. Why? Because we're both sensible people who aren't invested on who comes up with the solution to a problem, but instead on what would be the best solution.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 4:08:59 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		“whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not”
---Yes, I believe love is a personal choice.
You cannot give love.
You cannot exchange love.
It does not “take two” for one to be “in love”.
I can prove it. Have you ever known someone that was “in love” but the person they loved wasn’t “in love” with them? There is no exchange of love. The act of showing affection is separate from the personal emotions of being in love.


“how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings”
“what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that”
---To me, romantic love is import in sustaining a relationship but not at all important in choosing a partner to start a relationship, lifestyle or otherwise. I am a loveable guy and my partners are lovable girls. I have started more than one long term M/s relationships from a “cold start” because we had common goals in life and our needs were complimentary. In every relationship, we both fell “in love” quite quickly.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 2/2/2010 4:09:34 AM >

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 4:43:21 AM   
MEUK


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/4/2009
Status: offline 		Well from my point of view nothing beats romantic love
But love can be expressed in many ways,
Waiting for your loved one with a cup of tea, a smile, a hug, a little note "i love you" in his/hers lunch box
It does frustrate me somewhat that people see that been romantic is a sign of weakness ITS NOT!!!!
Over the past 2/3 months i have had messages from both male and females telling me that Im a fake and not a true Dom
Why? ... Because Im romantic. How can a Dom Master be romantic? its easy !!!
I had 10 very happy romantic years with my slave and yes I said slave I was her Master
But we was romantic, in love, I would leave love notes on her dashboard, send her texts, notes by post
She would do the same for me
But I was still her Master I still controlled her she still obeyed me totally
control someone’s heart and everything else follows

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 4:45:22 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I'm curious about
  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that


Yes, I believe in it. I see it all around me. I've got two sons left at home and can tell instantly when they have those *feelings*.

I only know that I can say for sure that I KNOW that I love my Mum and Dad , all of my children and my two eldest grandchildren. I can't even say that I love my youngest third grandchild as yet, though I'm fairly certain that I will in time. I don't know if I love my brothers and sisters.

In my M/s relationship, I rarely think about whether I *love* or not. I've known him for over 10 years, I never *fell in love* and other words seem far more applicable and accurate than * love*, such as *worship, adore, idolize, trust, respect*. So no, it doesn't matter much.

I've been with him for a very long time, that could be seen as *successful*...but where *love* comes into it, I really couldn't tell you. I haven't a clue whether he loves me or not. How would I know?  By him saying it?

I value many things that he gives me.....care, consistant interest, attention and concern, affection, control.....I'm not sure that that means that he *loves* me so it doesn't *figure* in it. It signifies that he cares for me a great deal. If he said he loved me, not a single thing would change .....so it's irrelevant and insignificant.

agirl









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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 5:02:42 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't much care about romantic love. To me, it is a shallow thing, full of false expectations built on poor or non communication. I do not hold much value for romance.


You and I have a very different definition of romance then.

quote:

What I need from most of my relationships is a different and more lasting love.


That seems pretty romantic to me :-)

quote:

A love that does not need sappy cards, birthdays and anniversaries remembered always, romantic dinners and scheduled date nights.

That is a very Harlequin & Hallmark version of romance. It is fluff. Not really romance.

quote:

One that does not die if I gain or lose 20 pounds, get richer or poorer, gray hair or bald, lose body parts because of illness, or am wearing heels and skirt versus wool socks and sweats. It still flourishes when I am without makeup and hair standing on end as much as it does when I am done to the nines. It only gets stronger after a hearty door slamming "FUCK YOU!!!" argument and doesn't care at all how many hot asses the other person looks at.

That to me is a strong bond.

quote:

In my world, romance is over rated. It's for amateurs.It's the bait on many a new relationship hook. Then, after it's died due to daily life, the relationship dies.

If you are basing your definition of romance on the Harlequin & Hallmark versions of it, yes, I agree. But that really isn't the only way to see romance.

quote:

I don't want a young woman's romance novel vision of love. I want people around me that are being their authentic self and loving me for mine.

How absolutely romantic is vulnerability!!

quote:

I don't care if I EVER get another sappy flowers and hearts card. Just show me that your going to be here with me through the good and the bad. That you've got my back half as well as I've got yours. Laugh with me, at me, at me laughing at you. Make me laugh when I can't see much to laugh about. Be ready with a hug or encouraging smile when life gets crappy.

That's the best stuff right there.

quote:

If what I've described is someone elses version of romance then perhaps I am seeing it wrong.

Well throughout history, the notion of romance has changed. Plato saw it as reciprocity between the sexes, a form of beauty. Of course, then the romantic novels came with images of chivalry, but most of them preached some kind of loyalty despite adversity (like your slamming the door and fuck you part, which by the way is highly dramatic and tests the bounds of love).

Take away Harlequin. Take away Hallmark. Romance is essentially love and beauty in the deepest loving sense beyond sex. Sex can be involved but romance is the beautiful platonic part.

quote:

But my vision of romantic is only pretty for awhile, then tends to crack and crumble with time. I prefer something with a stronger foundation.

Most philosophers would say that the romance IS the stronger foundation that keeps us from changing sexual partners with the frequency of a bunny ;-)

- LA

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 5:50:12 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
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From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		The only love I believe in is unconditional love. It's all you need. 

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:02:21 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Food for thought in these words about love and relationships . . . my personal formula for successful TPE. Worked for me, may not work for you but, it does examine the entire process of how to fall in love. Have fun tearing it appart or building it up.

-=LOVE AND SURRENDER=-
The gap between ego and spirit is unavoidable. It would seem impossible to close this gap, since spirit and ego are opposites. Bringing them together is achieved through surrender, and the only force that can accomplish this is love. Surrender, then, is the next phase on loves journey, which you enter as soon as you choose to be in a relationship.
-Deepak Chopra

-=HOW TO BEGIN A SUCCESSFUL POWER EXCHANGE=-
Even in the very beginnings when exploring a power exchange relationship, when you don't “trust each other with your lives” yet, nothing in the emotional connection can be private. Not one fear, lust, kink or emotion can be withheld in the beginning if you plan to succeed. You may not have each other's banking information at that point but, nothing is secret when relevant to exposing who you are, what you want, how you feel or what you do.

To exchange control, you both must expose yourselves in order to learn. How can you start a power exchange if you don't know what makes the other person tic, what power to give or take? There can be no secrets, especially if it conflicts with paying respect to the bond. Neither Master nor slave can hold secrets or limit exposure if they are to succeed. Treat the power exchange with respect, remain exposed and steadfast in your roles.
-Kalon Eric

-=HOW TO SUCCEED AT TPE=-
To me, successful TPE (Total Power Exchange) requires complete trust and commitment. It has to run both ways or neither will gain it. You must commit to both your role in the relationship and each other. If you are not committed to exchanging all physical, mental and emotional dynamics, then it isn't a total exchange is it?

Mutual trust requires mutual exposure. Exposure is vulnerability. Vulnerability proves trust. Trust inspires love and makes surrender and control possible. If you are to succeed at a 100% power exchange, there is no room for secrets or privacy on either part under any pretense. My power to control comes from completely exposing who I am, not from false invulnerability created by guarding my exposure to you.
-Kalon Eric

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 2/2/2010 6:05:31 AM >

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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