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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:04:55 AM   
cpK69


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~fr~

I wouldn’t say I don’t believe in “romantic love”, just that I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced it, or that it is for me.

Past relationships, not involving D/s, were definitely lacking; the words ‘I love you’ and ‘I’m sorry’ were said often, but with little meaning behind them. Also, I suspect that gifts were given out of a sense of obligation, and payoff; so not to have to be a responsible party in the relationship.

After becoming involved in D/s relationships, I started to see love differently. I used to place it on the hope of things to come; now it is on the stability of balance, in what is.

I don’t need to hear the words ‘I love you’, when I can hear it in the tone of his voice. I don’t need to be given gifts; I can feel that he cares, by the warmth of his touch. I don’t need to think we have forever, because of the way he makes every moment, spent together, count. I’m not afraid of losing what we have; it can’t be tainted by what’s to come.

Our needs and values are compatible, our personalities complimenting, to me, in relation to intimate relationships of any kind; that is love. The fact that I adore him doesn’t hurt. So, I guess I would say; love is the whole thing.

I like the topic, and appreciate the op being presented in a manner that was easy for me to respond to. : )

My best,

Kim


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:09:39 AM   
MmeRegineSybille


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I am a hopeless romantic but I cannot love romantically.........such a paradox I am. I simply do not believe it is possible for Me to love this way........I can appear vulnerable........but I cannot be vulnerable at My core.......I have one friend that perhaps knows Me best, with Her I can be Me..............but it is not a romantic relationship at all.........

Romance Me all you wish but I will not fall in love with you.........I may come to care deeply for you........but never in love...........It is not possible.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:25:06 AM   
lucylucy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

[There are actually some good threads on love (romantic and otherwise) from the past.  You might enjoy reading them.  You never know.  Someone from back then might have felt exactly the same way you do.




Thanks, LadyPact. I always check the archives before posting a thread, so I have read the previous threads on this topic. Even after reading what others have said on the topic, I thought my question and the framing of it was slightly different and I wanted to know what the current group of active posters had to say on the topic,

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:26:22 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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You stupid vapid bitch, how dumb, you can't use the search topic?? ( ok, just kidding, but I couldn't resist)

  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
    Sure, I believe it exists. 


  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
    The way I define romantic love, VERY

  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that
    Compatibility - which includes the ability to connect emotionally (lovingly) with each other. 

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:37:08 AM   
    VampiresLair


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    FR
    • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not --  I believe in romantic love because I've experienced.  I cannot deny its existence at this point.
    • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings --  It's crucial to any successful, long term relationship
    • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that--  A successful D/s relationship, for me, is one that includes marriage, continued love(beyond the initial frenzy), and a multi-faceted relationship that extends beyond D/s aspects while simultaneously remaining true to them.  A successful relationship results in the two people involved living out the rest of their lives together happily overcoming any hardships and relishing the good times.
    DV's Fox


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:42:43 AM   
    LadyPact


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lucylucy


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LadyPact

    [There are actually some good threads on love (romantic and otherwise) from the past.  You might enjoy reading them.  You never know.  Someone from back then might have felt exactly the same way you do.




    Thanks, LadyPact. I always check the archives before posting a thread, so I have read the previous threads on this topic. Even after reading what others have said on the topic, I thought my question and the framing of it was slightly different and I wanted to know what the current group of active posters had to say on the topic,

    You're quite welcome, lucylucy.  Different angle, yes, but I do remember some folks writing some really good pieces on the subject.  The current group of posters have written some really good things here, too.  Still, if I remember right, there was a thread that was written some time back that specifically mentioned romantic love incorporated within D/s that had some great contributions.  A lot of folks who are responding currently (My observation from quick read through) don't seem to hold as much importance in romantic love in D/s.  The older thread had more who do need it for their dynamic to work.  Unfortunately, with such common key words for search criteria, it may be really hard to find.

    The topic is a good one.  Personally, I never have an end of fascination with people doing this thing successfully in a million and one different ways.


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 6:46:28 AM   
    lucylucy


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

    I am wildly and passionately in love with him. But...it's not a romantic love because I'm not a romantic type of person.
    I think I'm a little confused because you seem to equate love with romance.


    I think what you've said about being wildly and passionately in love with your partner but it not being romantic because you're not romantic really fits my situation as well.

    I don't equate love with romance at all--but I equate romantic love with romance to a large extent (with the romantic love being the emotion and romance being the gestures that indicate the emotions). Sorry if I wasn't clear on this in my original post.



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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 7:17:21 AM   
    HisSweetElysium


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     I vetted suitors based on their ability to express feelings and sentiment in this regard.  I don't expect someone to tell me they love me on a first date (in fact, that's a bit creepy) but the potential has to be there. A few treated me too casually, a few treated me like a buddy, which didn't work for me either. I have to KNOW that you care for and respect me before I am going to be okay with you calling me slut, whore, or hitting me.  I don't feel psychologically safe without that assurance. Just the way I'm wired I guess.

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 7:36:07 AM   
    lucylucy


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

    You stupid vapid bitch, how dumb, you can't use the search topic?? ( ok, just kidding, but I couldn't resist)



    WD, I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist! Somehow, with your cute bubblebath pic, "stupid vapid bitch" sounds affectionate coming from you.


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 7:54:46 AM   
    NuevaVida


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    I always felt "romance" was contrived.  Flowers, candies, candlelight - all tools to manipulate a cozy response from one's partner.  But I am crazy in love with the Man, and we do experience romantic moments.  They are spontaneous, and come about on their own, and it's amazing to experience.

    Love is the foundation for our relationship.  He wanted it that way, and it's a first for me to experience this.  We have been moving forward very slowly, to allow our compatibilities to mesh, and to allow this relationship to form.  We are growing together and in love with each other.  Love does not blind us to reality, but it sure adds a sweetness to our dynamic which I have not known before.  We love because we are so compatible, because we love the way the other thinks, and our passion for each other flows from that love. 

    I used to feel I did not need to be loved in a relationship.  But now that I am, I would want it no other way.


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 8:08:49 AM   
    Mercnbeth


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    quote:

    whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
    Denying it's existence would be akin to denying my life. Similar to the sentiment behind "yes Virginia - there IS a Santa Claus..."; romantic love doesn't exist in the cards and sappy sentiments of the 'holiday' of Valentines Day. The buying of trappings and dinners, cherry flavored candy panties, and 'love coupons; are cute and silly tchotchkes. Everyone says they don't need them, but nobody wants to be the lonely little disenfranchised boy or girl who comes home from school without getting at least one 'Scooby Doo' card.

    This question is easy to answer for me. I know 'romantic' love exists because I'd apply any modifier to love and still think it applies. Silly, sappy, sentiments; love provides the confidence to expose yourself that way to a partner. Doing so isn't a requirement for love. It doesn't indicate you have, or don't have, a "romantic love"; however the ability to do silly things and express yourself in silly ways to my partner is something I'd truly miss if I didn't do it.

    quote:

    how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
    I can't separate it to qualify an answer. I'm a 'romantic'. I've been in previous relationships where my partners behavior and actions eliminated romance and romantic love from my life. Those relationships died because of that situation. I can't say if my current relationship goes on because romantic love thrives between us; but those other emotions and feelings exist symbiotic with it.

    quote:

    what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that
    I "value" beth more than anything else in my life. We don't view ours as a "D/s relationship". We have a relationship that includes D/s, among many other sensations and common desires we share. Love doesn't figure into that. Our love for each other provides the confidence to expose our romantic side to the other. When we do so the smile, or sometimes outright laughter, we see in the other's face is the romantic payoff.

    Time is no indicator of "successful". Were that the case, my first marriage was "successful" for many years when in reality it was a failure on the flight going to the honeymoon. Our "success" is the romantic feeling that we've only met yesterday; while at the same time feeling like we've know each other forever.

    "Love" is a word that has taken on the qualities of similar words with elusive definitions. Master, slave, submissive, Dominant, are all irrelevant out of their relationship context. Such is love. The believers seek it and keep searching for it, despite life experiences The skeptics, like myself, deny its existence adamantly until its experienced then shout about it as loud as they can at every opportunity.

    Now you want to make LOVE distinctive in some way by adding the modifier 'romantic' as if that was a path to determining value or legitimacy or the lack of same. While we're on the subject, I'll stipulate to also having 'puppy love', 'enabling love', 'tough love', 'spiritual love', 'The ONE love', and most of all 'TRUE love'. It still comes back to seeking the same understanding. What is love? How does it feel to be in love? What's the difference between 'love' and 'romantic love'? What's the difference between slave and submissive? What is a slave? Is it a different question when asking; "what is a slave", when you modify it by asking "what is a 'true' slave"?

    < Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/2/2010 8:42:32 AM >

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 8:12:58 AM   
    KnightofMists


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    What is Romantic Love?

    I glanced through many of the responses.... it seems many have different views on what is romantic love. Frankly how people define it will change how one responds. I could have several different answers to your question only becuase of what defintiion I use on romantic love. There is alot of comparison to apples and oranges here!

    However, I understand you are trying to communicate how "Love" (how ever you define it) is not of singular importance in you dynamic as it was in your other more mainstream relationship. I appreciate how you are looking to see if others have found the same thing or had similiar experiences.

    In the end for me... I think love as I define it is a critical aspect to everything in my dynamics. But it comes down to how I love and how I expect to be loved. I am not looking for a love that is created because of what I do... but a love for who I am. Being loved for who I am will instrumental in influencing the development of devotion, loyalty and trust from my girls. This is not to say that Love is the only influence but it is one that is critical to have the relationship develop to what I have now. I couldn't be at this stage without love being apart of it. Love is the glue... but there are other pieces that it must hold together.

    This love to me... Is Romantic Love! Likely not how most define romantic love I suppose.

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 8:14:56 AM   
    MrMister


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    Very eloquently said Mercnbeth.

    I just wanted to add that it's been quite a long while since I last participated in this forum, and its good to see you again and pleased to hear all is well with the both of you.

    Kind regards,

    Jeff 

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 8:21:43 AM   
    KnightofMists


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

    I always felt "romance" was contrived.  Flowers, candies, candlelight - all tools to manipulate a cozy response from one's partner. ...............



    Romance for me has been about expressing appreciation for who a person IS that I love... Sometimes that appreciation is shown by allowing them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn! They are capable women and I appreciate this about them!

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 8:53:06 AM   
    NuevaVida


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
    I am not looking for a love that is created because of what I do... but a love for who I am.


    Bingo.  This is what I was fumbling to get at. 

    There is so much freedom in this.


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 9:48:39 AM   
    littlebitxxx


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

    snipped
    Now you want to make LOVE distinctive in some way by adding the modifier 'romantic' as if that was a path to determining value or legitimacy or the lack of same. While we're on the subject, I'll stipulate to also having 'puppy love', 'enabling love', 'tough love', 'spiritual love', 'The ONE love', and most of all 'TRUE love'. It still comes back to seeking the same understanding. What is love? How does it feel to be in love? What's the difference between 'love' and 'romantic love'? What's the difference between slave and submissive? What is a slave? Is it a different question when asking; "what is a slave", when you modify it by asking "what is a 'true' slave"?


    Thank you, Mercnbeth.  This is the way girl feels.  What is love, romantic or otherwise?   The girl admires, respects, and looks up to Master; she enjoys doing extra little things she knows He likes; her heart jumps when she sees His messages; she's sad when she has to leave Him and anticipates greatly when she gets to see Him again; He fills her heart as well as her mind.  Is this love?  Or the foundation of?  Or the expression of?  Does love result from these feelings or do these feeling result from love?   And is this all "romantic" love, or just caring for a person? 

    Does one need love in a M/s relationship?  the girl would need to have it defined before she could tell you.   Mastery, definitely.   From it, love could grow, couldn't it?  Or does it?  Does it have to? 

    Too many questions, not enough answers.  More caffeine needed? 


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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 9:51:34 AM   
    RumpusParable


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lucylucy

    I'm curious about
    • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
    • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
    • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that

    1)  Yes, I do believe in it.  I'm in such with my spouse.
    2)  Not at all.  It can be there, it can not be there.  It doesn't matter to me.
    3)  I value compatibility highest, love again is a null factor for me.

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 2:33:11 PM   
    heartcream


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    I am not sure what people mean when they say romantic love compared to how I see it.

    Op you say you tell your man everyday that "I am yours." That is pretty romantic to me.

    Aileen has said more than once she is not romantic but to hear her speak of her Shorebound sounds very romantic to me anyway.

    Non te posso lassare" — I cannot leave you

    purty romantic n'est pas?

    I am not sure what folks mean then when they say they are not romantic.



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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 3:36:21 PM   
    domiguy


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    This is romantic love....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-H5XG5x1Fc

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    RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/2/2010 3:57:57 PM   
    LadyAngelika


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

    Food for thought in these words about love and relationships . . . my personal formula for successful TPE. Worked for me, may not work for you but, it does examine the entire process of how to fall in love. Have fun tearing it appart or building it up.

    -=LOVE AND SURRENDER=-
    The gap between ego and spirit is unavoidable. It would seem impossible to close this gap, since spirit and ego are opposites. Bringing them together is achieved through surrender, and the only force that can accomplish this is love. Surrender, then, is the next phase on loves journey, which you enter as soon as you choose to be in a relationship.
    -Deepak Chopra

    Had to quote the Chopra! I totally believe in this. I think that when I'm involved with a man, even if he is submissive to me, I surrender to him and the dynamic just as much. I've been called a hopeless romantic with friends. But that is the part of me that likes extreme sensations: sadomasochism, mad love, extreme rollercoasters ;-) I need to feel alive.

    quote:

    -=HOW TO BEGIN A SUCCESSFUL POWER EXCHANGE=-
    Even in the very beginnings when exploring a power exchange relationship, when you don't “trust each other with your lives” yet, nothing in the emotional connection can be private. Not one fear, lust, kink or emotion can be withheld in the beginning if you plan to succeed. You may not have each other's banking information at that point but, nothing is secret when relevant to exposing who you are, what you want, how you feel or what you do.

    To exchange control, you both must expose yourselves in order to learn. How can you start a power exchange if you don't know what makes the other person tic, what power to give or take? There can be no secrets, especially if it conflicts with paying respect to the bond. Neither Master nor slave can hold secrets or limit exposure if they are to succeed. Treat the power exchange with respect, remain exposed and steadfast in your roles.

    So very true. I always thought that D/s had the potential to bring 2 people closer together, faster than in most vanilla contexts. That is the reason why I need to feel that there is going to be potential for love before I embark on what is is that I do.

    quote:

    -=HOW TO SUCCEED AT TPE=-
    To me, successful TPE (Total Power Exchange) requires complete trust and commitment. It has to run both ways or neither will gain it. You must commit to both your role in the relationship and each other. If you are not committed to exchanging all physical, mental and emotional dynamics, then it isn't a total exchange is it?

    Mutual trust requires mutual exposure. Exposure is vulnerability. Vulnerability proves trust. Trust inspires love and makes surrender and control possible. If you are to succeed at a 100% power exchange, there is no room for secrets or privacy on either part under any pretense. My power to control comes from completely exposing who I am, not from false invulnerability created by guarding my exposure to you.

    Well said. I agree. Though *for me* this inevitably means love, I can see how this relationship can happen with simple respect and without deep romantic love.

    - LA

    < Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/2/2010 3:58:11 PM >


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