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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/5/2010 9:37:01 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Since I fancy myself a poet of sorts, I am sort of obliged to believe in romantic love...however I am not required to idolize it.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/5/2010 11:03:10 PM   
MstrssScarlet


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I've been thinking about the concept of love lately. I used to think that love was the most important aspect of any significant other-type of relationship. I was with someone I was deeply in love with for 20 years. Our relationship faltered early and often for reasons other than love--mostly my distrust and his insecurity--but because we were in love we stuck it out for 20 years. I finally got to a point where quite literally love was not enough and I ended things. (The relationship was completely vanilla.)

I am now in a relationship with my owner and while we do love each other, I don't feel that our love for each other is the most important part of our relationship. We do tell each other "I love you" every day, but I feel like the more important statement I make every day is "I'm yours," in reference to his authority over me, my complete trust of him, and my utter devotion to him. I feel that if our love died for some reason, I would still want to be in the relationship because of his authority over me and my trust and devotion.

Our society prizes romantic love. Maybe I'm a cynic, but all the Valentine's Day stuff and other valorizations of romantic love just put me in a foul mood. I've had the relationship based on romantic love and more often than not, it sucked. The love I feel for my owner is quite different from the romantic love Hallmark cards address. Hallmark cards are all about love that makes people giddy. With my owner, love feels stable and comforting, and it's his power over me and my sexuality that gives me the giddy, butterflies-in-my-stomach feeling.

I'm curious about
  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that



P.S. If you think this is a stupid or boring topic, I invite you to protest by not posting to the thread rather than by calling me a stupid vapid bitch or telling me that this topic has been addressed before and I should use the "search" function.


I confess I had to stop at the end of the second page. I've spent too much time on the computer this evening and it's giving me my usual migraine for doing so.

First of all, I'd like to applaud you for putting something out there that may or may not have been found with the search option. I absolutely hate it when someone squashes a good subject with the line "look it up". People come and go on this site and the opinions you get today may not be the ones you get a year or even a month from now. I once saw something posted that was exactly the same thing I had posted some months before. While it didn't get many responses either time, I found it interesting that the results the second time around were completely opposite from the first.

How important is love to me? Important enough that after 20 years in a loveless but otherwise very successful marriage I decided to leave. It only lasted that long because of my stubborness and not wanting to start all over again. Like Mercnbeth, my marriage was doomed from the beginning because he felt he should be on his best behaviour while we were dating. Only after we were married and on the honeymoon did his "true" self appear and it wasn't at all what I was looking for. It only got worse from there, although everyone thought we were the perfect couple.

I decided that the second time around I would have it all or nothing. I got it all. I have a partner that I'm deeply in love with who shares the same interest in the lifestyle that I do. He is the only person in the world that can make me laugh when it feels like the world is crashing down around me. When I get mad at something stupid, he helps me put it into perspective and get over it. When I don't feel good and he comes home to a silent house with no dinner prepared, his only concern is how I feel. When I play with my subs, he gives me complete, unsupervised leigh way to do what I enjoy so much and never questions what happens in those moments. That's trust. I swear that sometimes he can read my mind and knows exactly what to say or do. He IS my knight in shining armor. So many of you have described the same thing even better than I can and then put the disclaimer on it that it's not really romantic love. From my side of the screen, it is. Why be embarrassed or ashamed of it? It's a wonderful thing!

Where does love figure into our D/d relationship? When we first got married, I was his submissive and rather new to the lifestyle. It wasn't long before he recongnized the domme inside me. He could have selfishly kept me in the dark and I could still be in the submissive role, probably not NEARLY as happy as I am now. He loved me enough to let me experiment and find my true niche in this lifestyle as a domme. The experiences he has given me by doing so makes me love him all the more.

I hope that answers your questions. Off to bed now with some good pain meds.

Scarlet



< Message edited by MstrssScarlet -- 2/5/2010 11:21:23 PM >

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/6/2010 10:32:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		~fast reply~

I value romantic love a great deal-- in romantically-inclined relationships.

My authority-exchange relationships, however, are not, and will not be, romantically-inclined. The romance dynamic is a completely different and separate relationship state, for me, from the service-and-authority model state.

For me, the things I value in a service-and-authority relationship are communication, obedience, and integrity. If those are in place, and the person is genuinely trying to do hir very, very best and seeking to flourish as a person and in hir process of yielding to my authority, then things will likely be joyful and productive for us most of the time (the occasional bobble and hitch notwithstanding).

Calla

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/6/2010 2:55:44 PM   
Shekicromaster


Posts: 70
Joined: 4/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

  • whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
well, it almost certainly exists (for many) so nothing to believe in, but I don't tend to give it too much value.. It is usually just temporary infatuation, and this volatile emotions are a little annoying.
quote:


  • how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings

I'd say that friendship and having compatible goals and interests is probably more important in any long term relationship.
quote:


  • what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that

the above. I hate when too much heaviness enters the relationships, and that usually happens when there are hidden agendas, too much compromises and so on, which tends to happen when we are not really sincere, compatible and open about all that. So I like more an easygoing friendly atmosphere and partners. Of course trustworthy, reliable and all that, but not too clingy and emotionally dependent. I like some "air" in the relationship and emotional independence in partners. Not that it happens often  to be honest. Probabilly looking for "pals with tits" more than girlfriends which is not very realistic, but there are exceptions, my firs serious relationship was like that. Of course one understands the value of things like that only years later when they are long gone :D


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/6/2010 3:54:23 PM   
pagankinktress


Posts: 80
Joined: 8/12/2007
Status: offline 		To me, romantic love is more of that "Oh-my-god-we-can't-get-enough-of-each-other" feeling that typically occurs in the beginning stages of a relationship.  Do I believe in it? Sure.  Do I think it endures? No.

I say I do not believe romantic love is endurable because I think that our minds, bodies and hearts could not sustain that kind of intensity for prolonged periods.  Romantic love seems to be a phase and can evolve into a different kind of love... one that becomes strengthened, even more enjoyable and fulfilling on many other levels as we continue to share ourselves with another over time.

When it comes to romantic love in a D/s situation or relationship, I will say that I need to have some emotional connection to a submissive in order to genuinely believe in the exchange and facilitate a rewarding dynamic.  I can't play with someone who I know only very casually...I have to sincerely like and respect them.  I'm not sure that I need to *love* them or be *in love* with them.  But its empty to me if I have no positive feeling about them whatsoever.  That's where what I value in terms of respect, affection for the submissive and a sense of overall compatibility comes in. Those would be the elements I'd gauge whether or not the D/s relationship was a successful one. :)



quote:

I'm curious about

* whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not
* how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings
* what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 6:10:04 AM   
PainfullyCurious


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

I decided that the second time around I would have it all or nothing. I got it all. I have a partner that I'm deeply in love with who shares the same interest in the lifestyle that I do. He is the only person in the world that can make me laugh when it feels like the world is crashing down around me. When I get mad at something stupid, he helps me put it into perspective and get over it. When I don't feel good and he comes home to a silent house with no dinner prepared, his only concern is how I feel. When I play with my subs, he gives me complete, unsupervised leigh way to do what I enjoy so much and never questions what happens in those moments. That's trust. I swear that sometimes he can read my mind and knows exactly what to say or do. He IS my knight in shining armor. So many of you have described the same thing even better than I can and then put the disclaimer on it that it's not really romantic love. From my side of the screen, it is. Why be embarrassed or ashamed of it? It's a wonderful thing!

Scarlet




I agree. I think a lot of people are describing what I would call romantic love but calling it something else. I don't see how or why anything that involves a power exchange would exclude loving feelings. Certainly, I see that one can go through the motions without loving feelings, but that doesn't mean they can't be part of it.

I do find something romantic about power exchange- (Of course if we are defining romantic love as flowers and chocolate, then it is nice but not the kind of thing that makes me stick around.) In addition to the chemistry, I think there is a giving aspect to traditional romance and I don't see what could be more romantic than a sub giving themselves, or a Dom giving the time to make that sub into someone better. (The same applies to switches.)

In any case, this is a great thread! My opinion doesn't matter so much- I never would have thought that so many people so clearly seperate the two- knowing that does matter. I have been enlightened. Now when I get a message saying: I have had X # of long-term D/s relationships, my very next question will be, did you love them? If I get some sort of rhetoric about love not being important... Well, better to know upfront. :o)

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 8:46:28 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu
Is it possible you've transcended the 'normal' human preconception of love? When love is laid bare, the commercial and romantic trappings mean very little and the 'connection' in synchronicity comes clearly into focus.

I think it's true to say I've transcended my previously narrow view of love. This thread has shown that there are lots of different definitions of love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
Another distinction people make is between love and being "in love". I don't get that one either.

Yeah, the more I read and think about this thread and my original questions, the more I realize that the distinction hold no value for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious
I actually have a little bit of a fear now that I may run across a Dom who has issues with the loss of emotional control that can come with romantic love. Hopefully though, he will not be as repressed as that particular ex and can take it out on me in a sensually evil way. :o)

Has anyone else had that problem?


Great question! Might get more responses if it gets its own thread. I’d like to see how people respond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
i'd rather have control and ownership than love

If I had to choose, I’d rather be controlled and owned than loved . . . but I can’t imagine being controlled and owned and not loving the man who controlled and owned me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet
First of all, I'd like to applaud you for putting something out there that may or may not have been found with the search option. I absolutely hate it when someone squashes a good subject with the line "look it up". People come and go on this site and the opinions you get today may not be the ones you get a year or even a month from now. I once saw something posted that was exactly the same thing I had posted some months before. While it didn't get many responses either time, I found it interesting that the results the second time around were completely opposite from the first.


Thanks! This has been an interesting thread and I love that the responses are all over the place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet
I decided that the second time around I would have it all or nothing. I got it all. I have a partner that I'm deeply in love with who shares the same interest in the lifestyle that I do. He is the only person in the world that can make me laugh when it feels like the world is crashing down around me. When I get mad at something stupid, he helps me put it into perspective and get over it. When I don't feel good and he comes home to a silent house with no dinner prepared, his only concern is how I feel. When I play with my subs, he gives me complete, unsupervised leigh way to do what I enjoy so much and never questions what happens in those moments. That's trust. I swear that sometimes he can read my mind and knows exactly what to say or do. He IS my knight in shining armor. So many of you have described the same thing even better than I can and then put the disclaimer on it that it's not really romantic love. From my side of the screen, it is. Why be embarrassed or ashamed of it? It's a wonderful thing!

It sounds like we have a lot in common here. I love my partner deeply and one word from him can make me go from anxious to at peace. We accept each other without judgment. To me, it’s not romantic (and I like it that way), but others might see it as incredibly romantic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pagankinktress
To me, romantic love is more of that "Oh-my-god-we-can't-get-enough-of-each-other" feeling that typically occurs in the beginning stages of a relationship. Do I believe in it? Sure. Do I think it endures? No.

I say I do not believe romantic love is endurable because I think that our minds, bodies and hearts could not sustain that kind of intensity for prolonged periods. Romantic love seems to be a phase and can evolve into a different kind of love... one that becomes strengthened, even more enjoyable and fulfilling on many other levels as we continue to share ourselves with another over time.

My previous relationship lasted 20 years and I had the "Oh-my-god-I-can't-get-enough-of-him" feeling the whole time, even when I was breaking up with him. It was intense and it allowed us to overlook serious problems in our relationship. It was romantic—and not healthy at all.


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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 9:33:42 AM   
pagankinktress


Posts: 80
Joined: 8/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Lucy,

I have no doubt that there are relationships that manage to maintain that "Oh-my-god" feeling for quite some time. I'd imagine it can be quite amazing too.  :)  Its interesting though, how you mention the level of intensity in that particular relationship...and the ways that kept you from dealing with other issues that arose. 

Do you think that when such an intensity...(and for lack of a better phrase at the moment)...a "romantic love" primarily characterizes the relationship, it can  be a healthy thing?  I'm inclined to think that most relationships (D/s and otherwise)  can't sustain such intensity for the long haul...for reasons similar to what you mentioned. 

Thanks for posting such a thought provocative thread. You've given me lots to ponder!

quote:


My previous relationship lasted 20 years and I had the "Oh-my-god-I-can't-get-enough-of-him" feeling the whole time, even when I was breaking up with him. It was intense and it allowed us to overlook serious problems in our relationship. It was romantic—and not healthy at all.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy





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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 9:53:45 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pagankinktress
I have no doubt that there are relationships that manage to maintain that "Oh-my-god" feeling for quite some time. I'd imagine it can be quite amazing too.  :)  Its interesting though, how you mention the level of intensity in that particular relationship...and the ways that kept you from dealing with other issues that arose. 

Do you think that when such an intensity...(and for lack of a better phrase at the moment)...a "romantic love" primarily characterizes the relationship, it can  be a healthy thing?  I'm inclined to think that most relationships (D/s and otherwise)  can't sustain such intensity for the long haul...for reasons similar to what you mentioned. 



I wouldn't want another relationship like the one I had. It's one of those things I'm glad to have experienced but don't miss at all. In the final analysis, I think the intensity of the romantic love masked issues that needed to be dealt with. I think that if we had been forced to deal with the issues we had sooner, our relationship would have ended sooner. In other words, the intense romantic love--rather than trust, compatibility, respect, etc..--sustained the relationship.

< Message edited by lucylucy -- 2/7/2010 9:54:28 AM >

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 10:07:25 AM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think we confuse romance with intimacy.  For me, romance is the gestures; the flowers,  gifts, etc. Intimacy, on the other hand, is an opening of emotions - both parties are emotionally open.  I believe love consists of shared values, respect acceptance (safety) and trust.  What masquerades as love or romantic love is usually physical attraction.  Our culture has very poor values of what love truly is; and we often have a double standard:  we love our friends, but when it comes to picking a partner, somehow a lot of the bets are off in the area of shared values and respect.  It took me a long time to learn this.  Even though it may sound really simple.  I love my Dom because I respect him, and because his values match mine.  And I can tell him anything. 

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 12:38:00 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		love is overrated and contentment underrated

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 12:40:34 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Every once in a while osf............:)  I agree with you.

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 12:47:47 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Every once in a while osf............:)  I agree with you.


don't say that outloud

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i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 12:55:55 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
love is overrated and contentment underrated


Agreed!

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“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 1:02:50 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I have never agreed with osf.  I don't in his latest example either.

I think it's fairly evident that I'm a lovable guy almost ""Jesusesque in how I operate..  Without the emotional connection I find that it is nothing more than fucking around and just kind of killing time.  Not to say that it is the worse thing around and it can hit the spot at the "moment."

To develop "love" does take time.  Do I need that tye of connection to engage a woman...Absolutely not. 

To get this thing into the long run and something  much more meaningful there needs to be more than simply control or ownership.   I can recieve those responses from a pet or strictly derived from fear.

I try to focus on something more whenever possible.

TheloveDom

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 1:14:54 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		domi you have such superior intellect that i could say it's daylight at high noon and you'd know different

well what works for you may not for all, now don't that just suck

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 1:21:45 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

love is overrated and contentment underrated


People don't tend to search for *contentment* or *deep affection* or * huge caring...........It seems that *love* has to be *it* and nothing else will do much of the time.


agirl

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 1:47:55 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		contentment is the killer of dreams.  It is a rather wishy washy state.  It can fill the moment.  Maybe in the place of something worse it is acceptable.  I don't know if I would jump up and down if a woman simply viewed our relationship as one based upon contentment.



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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 1:51:31 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Contentment is nice and comfortable.  Like fucking a guy who has an 'adequate' sized dick. 
You may not be shouting it from the rooftops, but you aint gagging on it either.

WinD
Philosopher

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RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? - 2/7/2010 2:06:22 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Contentment is usually a response after an action. Stroke a dog and it will sigh in contentment. Relax someone and they will le sigh too.

There is nothing wrong with contentment, it is a sign of being open and relaxed.

I think if a man could bend me the way I need and desire to be that would lead to really awesome contentment.

Le wish, le sigh.



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Every single line means something.
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