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S&M - 2/5/2010 7:05:52 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline 		Just to start us off, I'll say that I've always thought S&M (from the sadist's perspective) was pretty much just a way of allowing oneself to be a bit of a sociopath in a consensual setting.

To me, the difference between a sociopath and a person with sociopathic urges is that an actual sociopath doesn't know how to control said urges. To a sociopath, those "urges" become a way of life, but I believe that most human beings harbour certain tendencies or desires that, if acted upon, would be considered sociopathic. How many of you have fantasised about killing your boss after a particularly annoying day at work? Or ramming a fork into your co-worker's eye because they keep stealing your stapler? Perfectly ordinary imaginings that I'm sure the vast majority of people have felt a number of times in their life, but... they're just fantasy. You'd never act them out, because that would make you a criminal.

That's where S&M comes in. It gives people (sadists) an opportunity to indulge those sociopathic tendencies and urges in an environment where you KNOW you are safe. There is consent, there is desire on the part of the masochist, and an understanding that it will stop if it becomes too much.

I'm certainly not trying to put a negative spin on S&M by using the term "sociopathic urges", because I rather like the idea of there being an actual space for that kind of release and realisation of suppressed desires. I was wondering, though, if other people felt the same way about S&M and sadism, or if they had other theories. I'd be interested to hear them. :)



-- Kye


< Message edited by sodsta -- 2/5/2010 7:15:28 PM >
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 7:08:09 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Frankly I could care less about all the psycho-babble.
I like S&M because I like hearing women whimper. The pain and control get me off-always have

(in reply to sodsta)
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 7:13:00 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline 		Fair enough. That works, too. I tend to say that about my masochism, lol. :)

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 7:14:45 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		"There is more than one road that get's you there." you are looking at one of the many possible roads.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 7:44:07 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		An “urge” to kill someone doesn’t make you a murderer. It is your actions that define you as a murderer.

Sexual "urges", aggressive "urges", submissive "urges", dominant "urges" . . . dude, they are all pretty much interchangeable with various sociopathic "urges". It doesn’t make you a psychopath.

You are a whack job and either need to put the pysch books down or read them all the way to the end before you leap to ill informed judgemental conclusions about the functions of S&M. If you had come here asking sadists and masochists what we thought instead of proffering your ill concieved theroies, I might not have humiliated you with your own ignorance.



< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 2/5/2010 7:45:58 PM >

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:00:54 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

An “urge” to kill someone doesn’t make you a murderer. It is your actions that define you as a murderer.

Sexual "urges", aggressive "urges", submissive "urges", dominant "urges" . . . dude, they are all pretty much interchangeable with various sociopathic "urges". It doesn’t make you a psychopath.

You are a whack job and either need to put the pysch books down or read them all the way to the end before you leap to ill informed judgemental conclusions about the functions of S&M. If you had come here asking sadists and masochists what we thought instead of proffering your ill concieved theroies, I might not have humiliated you with your own ignorance.



Actually, not humiliated at all. Just a little bemused at your aggression. What I actually said was that there is a difference between an actual sociopath and someone with sociopathic urges. Someone with those urges, however diluted, is not actually a sociopath. I would never think to call someone a sociopath who wasn't. Unfortunately, I've known sociopaths and they are not pleasant people. I've yet to meet anyone on the fetish scene I would dub as having any sort of serious sociopathic problem.

Also, I did ask what people thought. I asked if anyone agreed, and if not, what their thoughts were. I'm always open to discussion and debate. I apologise for somehow offending you.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:02:34 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

An “urge” to kill someone doesn’t make you a murderer. It is your actions that define you as a murderer.

Sexual "urges", aggressive "urges", submissive "urges", dominant "urges" . . . dude, they are all pretty much interchangeable with various sociopathic "urges". It doesn’t make you a psychopath.

You are a whack job and either need to put the pysch books down or read them all the way to the end before you leap to ill informed judgemental conclusions about the functions of S&M. If you had come here asking sadists and masochists what we thought instead of proffering your ill concieved theroies, I might not have humiliated you with your own ignorance.



If only some people would stop thinking about it so much and just fracking do it. My god, I swear about 80% of this crap I myself never thought this much about it, not until coming to the message boards. Damn, Damn, Damn...


(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:03:42 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		No.  You are wrong.  (How is that for disagreement?)

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:07:53 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If only some people would stop thinking about it so much and just fracking do it. My god, I swear about 80% of this crap I myself never thought this much about it, not until coming to the message boards. Damn, Damn, Damn...


Thinking about things just happens to be a past-time of mine. An immensely enjoyable one, too. :)

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:16:13 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If only some people would stop thinking about it so much and just fracking do it. My god, I swear about 80% of this crap I myself never thought this much about it, not until coming to the message boards. Damn, Damn, Damn...


Thinking about things just happens to be a past-time of mine. An immensely enjoyable one, too. :)



Have you considered getting/reading text books on sociopathic behavior itself (indepth ones)?

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:23:30 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4


quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If only some people would stop thinking about it so much and just fracking do it. My god, I swear about 80% of this crap I myself never thought this much about it, not until coming to the message boards. Damn, Damn, Damn...


Thinking about things just happens to be a past-time of mine. An immensely enjoyable one, too. :)



Have you considered getting/reading text books on sociopathic behavior itself (indepth ones)?



I have. It was actually a friend-of-a-friend who got me interested in psychology and sociopaths in particular, as she was actually a sociopath herself. I considered doing a psychology course, but realised I'd probably hate it if I had to actually study it for three years. I have to admit to being more of an armchair psychologist, really.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:23:50 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

No.  You are wrong.  (How is that for disagreement?)


Yes, he is wrong.

However, he does not realize he's misusing the wrong labels and words in the presentation of the concept.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:29:39 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

No.  You are wrong.  (How is that for disagreement?)


Yes, he is wrong.

However, he does not realize he's misusing the wrong labels and words in the presentation of the concept.



Is it the concept itself that is causing the problem, or my misuse of labels? If it is the latter, what label should I be using?

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:33:42 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Dude, think about this statement...

People who cannot contain their urges to harm (or kill) people repeatedly for no apparent reason.

Now think about these words you wrote...

How many of you have fantasised about killing your boss after a particularly annoying day at work? Or ramming a fork into your co-worker's eye because they keep stealing your stapler?

Do you see the issues/problems within your own opening post?

(in reply to sodsta)
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:46:40 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Dude, think about this statement...

People who cannot contain their urges to harm (or kill) people repeatedly for no apparent reason.

Now think about these words you wrote...

How many of you have fantasised about killing your boss after a particularly annoying day at work? Or ramming a fork into your co-worker's eye because they keep stealing your stapler?

Do you see the issues/problems within your own opening post?


Well, no, because I make a very clear distinction between those who cannot control their urges (sociopaths), and those who can and do.

The very next sentence after the one you quoted was: Perfectly ordinary imaginings that I'm sure the vast majority of people have felt a number of times in their life, but... they're just fantasy. You'd never act them out

I would never, ever expect anyone who came home from a hard day at work and said "fucking hell, my boss is such an arse. Sometimes I wish I could just push him under a bus" to actually DO it. God, that would be insane. But those sorts of thoughts are common among all sorts of people, kinky and vanilla alike. There is nothing wrong with it.

Again, I am not in any way trying to say that sadists are sociopaths. I am saying that those sort of "violent" urges (and I am putting violent in quotation marks because when said "violence" is desired by a masochist/sub it can't really be considered as such) that people often experience and fantasise about BUT DON'T ACT ON, can be acted out with a willing partner in a consensual S&M setting.


Although pushing people under busses is not for everyone. :P


< Message edited by sodsta -- 2/5/2010 8:48:37 PM >

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:49:32 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Logically....


  • Some sadists are sociopaths (true)
  • All sadists are sociopaths (false)


Sadism is a characteristic of Sociopathic Behavior (not the other way around).

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:52:07 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta
… What I actually said was that there is a difference between an actual sociopath and someone with sociopathic urges. Someone with those urges, however diluted, is not actually a sociopath…

Also, I did ask what people thought. I asked if anyone agreed, and if not, what their thoughts were. I'm always open to discussion and debate. I apologise for somehow offending you.

No, I have no feeling of psychological relief because S&M has presented a social atmosphere for me to practice sadism. I also have no feeling of psychological relief that the local Bass Fishing club allows me to “release my repressed fishing urges” in a social environment.

I am both a sexual sadist and a fisherman because I do sexually sadistic things and I catch fish. Neither remotely has a fucking thing to do with sociopaths, psychopaths or being a murderer even though my fishing practices often end up badly for the fish.

If you felt “there is a difference between an actual sociopath and someone with sociopathic urges” why do you “like the idea of there being an actual space for that kind of release and realisation of suppressed desires”? I mean, the American Bass Fishing League needs no special mention about there suppressed fishing desires. Why would S&M?

You are parroting some mistaken concepts I completely disagree with. I have read far too much material professing the very misconceptions in your OP and your reply.

I stand by the fact your actions, not “urges” or “suppressed desires” define you... so does the DSM. Sadists, sadism and sexual sadism has nothing to do with suppression. It is our actions that define us not our “suppressed desires”. Also, we are not toned down sociopaths with our dangerous behaviors falling to “suppressed desires”. How can you be a sadist if you do nothing sadistic? How can you be a psychopath if do not display any symptoms?

Your premise and concepts are contradictory and ill informed. You should have finished reading the books before you opened your mouth and published.


< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 2/5/2010 9:10:17 PM >

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 8:55:37 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Think you missed my point... let me try this again.


  • I kicked my Boss in the balls because he humilated me in front of everybody. (spoken with anger)
  • I kicked my Boss in the balls because it felt good, and that's just the way I am (spoken with indifference).

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 9:00:14 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Oh Come on RA,...

Don't you just Love taking your Knife and wacking the heads off fish and slicing them open and watching the guts spills out...(Doesnt that just put a smile on your face, like it's Christmas while you work your knife)..

I'm conjuring mental images of Dexter on a fishing trip now. sick, sick, sick... I tell you. lol...

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 9:04:00 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

A sociopath is a person who doesn't feel like the regular rules (I'm not going to argue those) apply to him/her. A sociopath has an excuse for every misdeed they get caught in. I say, "caught" because if a sociopath doesn't get caught, they don't think it counts or matters. If he/she does get caught, it everyone else's fault. There is a disconnect between their actions and what is expected in terms of consequences. They don't understand consequences. You're way off.

None of this has anything AT ALL to do with WIIWD.



_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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