RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa?

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[Poll]

BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa?

BDSM is a subset of D/s

23% (5)

D/s is a subset of BDSM

76% (16)

Total Votes : 21

(last vote on : 2/13/2010 11:14:27 AM)
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RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 1:22:33 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

This, innit.

As far as I'm concerned this demonstrates not knowing what the 'acronym' BDSM stands for.

That may be the case for you, learning from online, but for some who participate offline, it aptly demonstrates the correct use of BDSM. That's not meant as a poke, but as a example of that you can only learn so much off the web and vicariously through media. My experience has been akin to Domin8ating - that the Ds element was added from the early to mid 90s(I'd say 91/92) as a more common 'addon'. I was certainly not aware of the Ds element in the late 80's. It was always represented as something seperate and different. I believe it a correct assumption that with the invention of the net, things got a bit mixed up and sure things evolve, and that includes words and acronyms, but there is still a strong contingent that stick to idea that BDSM is an expression of verbs, not nouns.

Some people include Ds in BDSM. I find it a bit of a misconception as BDSM is ultimately a description of acts and not of orientation. Even when you describe sadism and masochism within that term, it's an action. Discipline, an action. Bondage, an action.

Being dominant or submissive, sadist or masochist, master or slave - these are all orientations and therefore don't fit the criteria of the acronym.

Top or bottom merely describe a person who facilitates a sensation/act and doesn't reveal a persons orientation, so for the poster who suggested that all BDSM includes some sort of Ds is pretty much incorrect - particularly when it you consider that self bondage is a pretty common activity, using that as an example alone. I can use others, if you wish.

There a lots of Ds/Ms relationships where BDSM doesn't even factor and visa versa. I was going to just going to respond to the thread by saying neither, until I cam across your above dismissal of the diagram. But as rude as you were to Vaguely Curious(intentionally or not), does not change the fact that not everyone agrees and it's really not a question that be answered 'settled' - because you are not necessarily 'right'.

the.dark.

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Post #: 41

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 4:19:51 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz
For instance, a top says "stay still", they say this knowing that if the bottom moves at that moment they could be injured. The bottom is not being submissive by following that order, they are being self-disciplined by actually performing that order to prevent any injury to themself. Now, if the bottom went on and moved to prove they were not being submissive - well the fault is their own when they get injured and do not practice self-discipline.

I wouldn't deliberately move in order to show that I wasn't submissive. When I get tickled, I tend to thrash around uncontrollably. On rare occasions, I've hurt myself or others in minor ways. If I engage in knife play as a bottom (with a sharp knife involved) I need to be completely immobilised. I generally have good self-control when it comes to pain, but blaming my reaction to tickling on a lack of self-discipline strikes me as a bit odd. Perhaps I should work on controlling my reactions more effectively but it's rarely an issue, and most of the people I've dated *liked* that it made me lose control.

I probably worded parts of this incorrectly and if my wording offended you, I apologize. I was simply trying to point out that there is more than one form of discipline. Discipline is not solely provided from a Top or a Dominant, but it can also be found from within - self-discipline.

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Post #: 42

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 5:18:58 AM

ResidentSadist

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BDSM is not a subset of D/s.
D/s is a subset of BDSM if you believe the recently rewritten meanings for the BDSM acronym found in wikki and other incorrect, online, open source projects.

BDSM supposedly now stands for Bondage, Discipline, Domination, Submission and Sadomasochism.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Logic and history would have both BDSM and D/s as subsets of kink. D/s could not be a subset of BDSM in the same way a child can’t be a subset of its parent, it is a subset of the family.

Lets get our semantics strait.

1. A subset cannot exist without the parent.
2. Someone with a submissive personality is not a leather lifestyle submissive.
3. The dominance and submission found in the natural order of things is not lifestyle D/s.

D/s and its protocols were derived from and/or split off from its parent group(s) in the BDSM community. In effect, BDSM gave birth to the D/s lifestyle.

Can BDSM exist without D/s? Yes. BDSM is not a subset of D/s.

Would D/s come to have exist without BDSM? No. But it is not a subset of BDSM no matter what lies wikki tells you! BDSM stands for, and has always stood for bondage, discipline and sadomasochism.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to despite the fucking unmonitored open source bottom feeders that I sent letter of complaint to at Wikki.

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Post #: 43

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 5:49:41 AM

LinnaeaBorealis

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RS has spoken!! Let the argument end now.

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Post #: 44

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 6:11:27 AM

Daddysredhead

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I agree with Linea. *nods*

*bats eyes at RS because he just laid the smack down and that makes me get all a-twitter*

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Post #: 45

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 7:20:30 AM

purepleasure

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*agrees with RS, cuz thsat mayun knows his shyte*

{and he's hawt, 'n sadistic, 'n twisted}

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Post #: 46

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:00:48 AM

VaguelyCurious

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From: United Kingdom
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So what I think you are saying is:

(Diagram is not to scale. And yes, this is supposed to be a joke...)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 2/10/2010 8:02:40 AM >

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Post #: 47

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:11:41 AM

GreedyTop

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Well done, VC!! LOL

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Post #: 48

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:16:18 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Ditto! Bravo VC!

the.dark.

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Post #: 49

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:20:53 AM

VaguelyCurious

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Thankyou, oh kind and easily amused people! :D

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Post #: 50

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:23:38 AM

RCdc

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My regret is that I don't know how to transfere a image over onto the CM quotes worth repeating thread... it's not a quote as such, but it deserves to go there.

the.dark.

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Post #: 51

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:27:50 AM

VaguelyCurious

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D'aaaw, you've made me go all blushy

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Post #: 52

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:29:51 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
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From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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This is perfect VC. I liked your other one, but it did neglect kink and the Venn Diagram Fetish.

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Post #: 53

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 8:41:15 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
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In my defence, I had not come across the Venn diagram fetish until juliaoceania brought it to my attention...

I may not yet be a fully informed woman of the world but by God I just got one step closer!

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Post #: 54

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:39:41 AM

bloodlineS

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Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
D/s is a subset of BDSM if you believe the recently rewritten meanings for the BDSM acronym found in wikki and other incorrect, online, open source projects.

Starting assumption is incorrect therefore the rest is invalid, in fact the rest of your arguement could be largely reversed based on that. This meaning has been in place since at around 15 years ago, when I first got online and read BDSM resources around at the time. (Castle BDSM maybe? Too long ago to remember and can't find such a thing now*). I already said that once, so why am I having to say it again?

Cheers!

* I don't think this was the one, but it's kinda fun:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001019075351/www.castlerealm.com/kingdom/kingdom.htm
That's a web page from the start of 2000.

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Post #: 55

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:43:03 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
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Um, BDSM isnt only 15 yrs old.

Leather Archives

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Post #: 56

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:48:45 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

So what I think you are saying is:

(Diagram is not to scale. And yes, this is supposed to be a joke...)

That makes me sooooo hot.....MMMMMMMMMMMM

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Post #: 57

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:52:34 AM

thishereboi

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fr
Well, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/submit

one of the definitions of submit is...

2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.

Now at one of my first major events, my Mistress purchased 2 wonderful Dommes from Kentucky, at an auction. They beat on me for a good hour and I would have to say that was some kind of treatment. Some kind of awesome treatment even.

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Post #: 58

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:56:17 AM

GreedyTop

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masotramp

*grin*

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Post #: 59

RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:58:32 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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bloodlines.
You are linking something that is only 10 years old. BDSM is not a recent invention.
You are using wiki and castle realm.
Both are not advisable learning tools.
The majority of people who are explaining a little bit of history and introducing leather have been around real time environments and for more than 10 years (sorry guys, not meaning to say y'all oldies)

... can you not accept that there what you have learnt online is not the only way and in fact, is probably incorrect?

the.dark.

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Post #: 60

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