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[Poll]

BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa?


BDSM is a subset of D/s
  23% (5)
D/s is a subset of BDSM
  76% (16)


Total Votes : 21
(last vote on : 2/13/2010 11:14:27 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:31:05 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

Nobody knows how many people engage in BDSM - the acronym for Bondage Domination Sadomasochism - but it is estimated that 14% of men and 11% of women have tried it. There are a huge number of BDSM websites, with everything from sites giving advice and instructions, to personal ads, to online groups where people arrange to meet. Next month, for instance, Unfettered, a voluntary group set up four years ago to run educational workshops and promote and defend BDSM, hosts Kinkfest in London, "a whole day of non-stop salacious stage entertainment, fantastic stalls, wicked workshops, superb speeches and special guests". Is everyone at it?

Ermine Saner, writer.


quote:

For the uninitiated, BDSM stands for 'Bondage, Discipline and Sadomasochism', a clumsy umbrella term for a vast range of sexual practices usually dismissed under the generic label 'kinky'.

Its enthusiasts complain they are stigmatised by society to the point that some of their activities, while consensual, can see them sent to prison. Worse, according to many on the scene, is the way their activities, which usually feature the use of restraints, whips and role-play involving positions of power, are chronically misunderstood by wider society. Armchair psychologists dismiss BDSM as an unnatural, unhealthy desire for humiliation, while much of the general public regard its practitioners as perverts.
xeromag.com

quote:

Our findings support the idea that bondage and discipline and sadomasochism (BDSM) is simply a sexual interest or subculture attractive to a minority," Associate Professor Juliet Richters and her colleagues wrote in the Journal of Sexual Medicine.


Would you like more?

the.dark.

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RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:31:46 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Look at the HISTORY of the leather world. 



OK so you can't. Look I cared enough to look at your link and show you a research path supporting my position. If you can not be arsed to do the same then don't take part in the discussion.






If you look at her post offering you the link to the Leather Archives, you'll see a section marked "resources"...click on that.  It will offer you a link for "Leather Timeline"...click on that.

If you take the time to look through the information offered, you might come to understand why the question "Which came first...the chicken or the egg?" doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.  The meaning/origin of D/s and BDSM doesn't matter so much as the living it....unless you're doing a term paper or have an insane need to be right.

Like Fitznicely said in the beginning of this thread...

quote:


The point of having a "don't care" option was to hilight the futility of labels and factions...


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:34:58 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:


Ummm I am not discussing whether Ds is a subset of BDSM?
I am discussing that BDSM isn't necessarily a part of BDSM acronym.
You are citing castlerealm and online trash - Others cited the Leather archives - meat and bones offline 'lifestyle'(using that word loosely folks).  I'd cite StR SmtT and other such books and authors.
Are you going to flash up leathernroses and the steel door next?

the.dark.


Shame, as that's the subject of the thread.

Yes someone cited Leather Archives, only in the sense of referring to it, they didn't actually quote anything from it that proved anything, despite being asked to. Indeed did you even read that I showed my position from using that site?



I will ask you again.  Do you know where castlerealm comes from?

the.dark.

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RC&dc


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:35:09 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
If you look at her post offering you the link to the Leather Archives, you'll see a section marked "resources"...click on that.  It will offer you a link for "Leather Timeline"...click on that.

If you take the time to look through the information offered, you might come to understand why the question "Which came first...the chicken or the egg?" doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.  The meaning/origin of D/s and BDSM doesn't matter so much as the living it....unless you're doing a term paper or have an insane need to be right.


I did look at it, as you well know because obviously you read my reply to that, right.

If you don't care about the discussion, which is "Does the acronym D/s cover a subset of the acronym BDSM", then feel free not to post to thread. I agree, it's not earth shattering either way.

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:43:44 AM   
bloodlineS


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Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I will ask you again.  Do you know where castlerealm comes from?


Are you deaf? Like I already told you I can't say for sure it's the site I read when I first got online. Linking to it was largely amusement in being able to find pages from 10 years ago, as they appeared at that time. I can't see that a specific source matters.

The point was I can show the term being used in the way I understand it going back to the start of web archiving. No one has done the same supporting an opposing point of view so I assume they can't.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:43:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		blood, since you have already made up your mind that castlerealm is the ultimate source for the (revised) version of the definition of BDSM...

knock your socks off.

be happy.

You're right, everyone else is wrong.

Pat yourself on the back, and move along.

quote:

No one has done the same supporting an opposing point of view so I assume they can't.


Um.. Leather Archives. 

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 2/10/2010 10:45:20 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:46:14 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

Settle this arguement please :)


Who is arguing, really? Everyone gave their own particular view and some cited references. We even got a fabulous Venn Diagram from the lovely VC.

Why not just take what you practice in your own life, if you do, and have fun and don't analyze so much!

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:47:32 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

blood, since you have already made up your mind that castlerealm is the ultimate source for the (revised) version of the definition of BDSM...



Holy shit. Talk about living in your own little world.

Show me a link that proves a position that disagrees with my point of view? I even turned your own link back around on you. Or, like I already said:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3056666/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm#3058622

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:49:11 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

Are you deaf?

Pardon?... I am older than the web you know... hearing can go...

quote:

 Like I already told you I can't say for sure it's the site I read when I first got online. Linking to it was largely amusement in being able to find pages from 10 years ago, as they appeared at that time. I can't see that a specific source matters.


That's irrelevant.  You have cited castlerealm.  I am asking you if you know where it comes from.  I am asking for a specific reason.  If the answer is yes... or no.

quote:

The point was I can show the term being used in the way I understand it going back to the start of web archiving. No one has done the same supporting an opposing point of view so I assume they can't.


Ummm... what did Greedy and I give you, chopped liver?

the.dark.


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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:50:22 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Yeah.  you cited dead/fantasy websites.  I cited a site that has done research, takes the info from folks who have actually LIVED before and  through the scene since the advent of  the term BDSM. 


< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 2/10/2010 10:51:20 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:50:41 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Why not just take what you practice in your own life, if you do, and have fun and don't analyze so much!


*grin*









Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:51:45 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Yeah.  you cited dead/fantasy websites.  I cited a site that has done research, takes the info from folks who have actually LIVED through the scene since the advent of  the term BDSM. 




Yes but "your site" proves my point, not yours. If you think differently please link the exact page that shows otherwise.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:53:19 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		"I am ALWAYS RIGHT despite the fact that other folks have cited sources that factually deny what I believe"


good for you, blood.  rawk on.

*sigh*

One Twue Way.

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:54:32 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		you want exact sources?  Search them yourself.  You are right, I cant be arsed to do your research for cows.

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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:55:20 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

Talk about living in your own little world.



Perhaps you should talk about that ... you appear to be the expert.

Pirate

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:55:46 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Part of the reason I prefer WIITWD is because of silly arguments like this.

BDSM the acronym was coined in the early 1990s.  It's an online creation.  It originally stood for "Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism," as the links quoted by RcDc confirm.  Later on, people said that Dominance and submission (D/s) should be included as well, but the original acronym, frankly, included sensation play only, and Dominant/submissive "lifestyle" concerns came later.

Phrases like S&M, slap and tickle, and much more, go much further back.

What did Steel call it?  KWYDACTGB.  "Know what you're doing and close the goddamn blinds."  Works for me.


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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:56:02 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Why not just take what you practice in your own life, if you do, and have fun and don't analyze so much!


*grin*










I'm afraid your diagram of your view of the groupings is incomplete-you have omitted to mention the Venn Diagram Fetish.


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:56:17 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

you want exact sources?  Search them yourself.  You are right, I cant be arsed to do your research for cows.


It's not possible to prove a negative. I've shown you resources going to the earliest mention of the term BDSM in the timeline on that site you cite that show my position. So I've done research, proving me correct. You either accept that research, find something better (for one side or the other) or button your trap.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:57:35 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
I'm afraid your diagram of your view of the groupings is incomplete-you have omitted to mention the Venn Diagram Fetish.


Isn't that a subset of Fetish?

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:57:48 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		At least you got an answer GT... and I'm partially deaf... hes too vague to respond to mine...*cries and sobs*

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 100
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