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[Poll]

BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa?


BDSM is a subset of D/s
  23% (5)
D/s is a subset of BDSM
  76% (16)


Total Votes : 21
(last vote on : 2/13/2010 11:14:27 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 9:59:01 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Um, BDSM isnt only 15 yrs old.

Leather Archives


Um, no one said it was.

The context of mentioning a 15yr old resource was the person being replied to was saying modern/recent/abusable wiki sources were being used to justify a position.

What was the point of the Leather Archives link btw, anything specific or just pointing out dinosaurs were into leather? Funnily enough starting from 70s onwards I did a Find for BDSM and the first entry read:

1997, May 12: The Internet newsgroup soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm is formed
Which using google groups I found a reference to FAQs and acronym definitions:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/73cf8ed9fc9c9544/e5f13ebc460ff4bf?q=acronym+group%3Asoc.subculture.bondage-bdsm&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fsoc.subculture.bondage-bdsm%2Fbrowse_thread%2Fthread%2F73cf8ed9fc9c9544%2Fe5f13ebc460ff4bf%3Fq%3Dacronym%2Bgroup%3Asoc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
Dated 30Dec1999

Which links to an acronym webpage now dead, but available via way back at:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990203115824/http://www.mindspring.com/~frites/abbr.txt

.. do I need to tell you how it was defined at that point? I think you can guess :p

"BDSM Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sado-Masochism."

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:01:58 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Just pointing out that those that think BDSM is a recent invention might want to re-think it.

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RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:02:10 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

For instance, a top says "stay still", they say this knowing that if the bottom moves at that moment they could be injured. The bottom is not being submissive by following that order, they are being self-disciplined by actually performing that order to prevent any injury to themself.


While I am sure that is true in some cases, it isn't in mine. When my Mistress said to "stay still", I did it because she said to. Not because I was trying to prevent injury. And 90% of the time, she said it because she knew it was difficult for me to hold still and she's a bit of a masochist. Didn't have anything to do with me being injured.


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:02:31 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

can you not accept that there what you have learnt online is not the only way and in fact, is probably incorrect?


The problem is I can point to resources cemented in history, if only 10 years old but that's the limit of the tools, whereby what's the evidence on the otherside? Is it "I think it stands for something else" ?

That plus, ya know, the poll which shows 77% (of a small sample size) agreeing D/s is a subset of BDSM.

But don't take it too seriously, we all lose :)

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:02:42 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
D/s is a subset of BDSM if you believe the recently rewritten meanings for the BDSM acronym found in wikki and other incorrect, online, open source projects.


Starting assumption is incorrect therefore the rest is invalid, in fact the rest of your arguement could be largely reversed based on that. This meaning has been in place since at around 15 years ago, when I first got online and read BDSM resources around at the time. (Castle BDSM maybe? Too long ago to remember and can't find such a thing now*). I already said that once, so why am I having to say it again?

Cheers!

* I don't think this was the one, but it's kinda fun:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001019075351/www.castlerealm.com/kingdom/kingdom.htm
That's a web page from the start of 2000.



LMAO at his citing Castle Realm as the be all end all in BDSM...tff. Now we know why he holds the views he does.

Darlin', BDSM has been around far longer than Castle Realm. AND as I mentioned earlier, my information was from late 80s which is more than 15 years ago. You do know math, right?

While the acronym BDSM may have been around as long as the late 70s or early 80s (from what I've heard, as I said, my first encounter with it was in late 80s), the practices have been around for centuries.

Regardless of a term coined in the later part of the last century, that has NOTHING to do AT ALL with how they practice what those letters mean. You can spout your Castle Realm knowledge all you want you will not change how others perceive the acronym, and you will not be 'right'. You will only be right to YOU and to those who think similarly to you. To everyone else you will be wrong.

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(in reply to bloodlineS)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:04:12 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:

can you not accept that there what you have learnt online is not the only way and in fact, is probably incorrect?


The problem is I can point to resources cemented in history, if only 10 years old but that's the limit of the tools, whereby what's the evidence on the otherside? Is it "I think it stands for something else" ?

That plus, ya know, the poll which shows 77% (of a small sample size) agreeing D/s is a subset of BDSM.

But don't take it too seriously, we all lose :)



I refer you, again to Leather Archives.  And that's just for the USA.

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to bloodlineS)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:06:30 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

LMAO at his citing Castle Realm as the be all end all in BDSM...tff. Now we know why he holds the views he does.

Darlin', BDSM has been around far longer than Castle Realm. AND as I mentioned earlier, my information was from late 80s which is more than 15 years ago. You do know math, right?


Learn to read. I said it might have been Castle Realm that was one of the sites I read when first online. The link was just for funsies, I love that web archive thing :)

Mockery is fine and dandy, but when your side of the discussion is just what you 'remember' it doesn't really prove/show/demonstrate anything. Links, scans, unrelated commentary.. come on. Something other than "I say so".

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:07:42 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
I refer you, again to Leather Archives.  And that's just for the USA.


And where in those archives does it show the acronym BDSM not standing for B&D, D/s and S&M?

Thanks

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:08:35 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Look at the HISTORY of the leather world. 

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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:09:30 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		Links and scans are not a complete history. Kink has been underground for many years. While it is growing in popularity it is still often seen as taboo. Therefore much of the online information is inaccurate at best. I regard others who have lived it longer more than I regard a few internet links. If you prefer internet links over real knowledge from those who have more experience (not saying I), that is your choice. Though, I do think it is misleading and more importantly, not a 'whole picture'.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:09:56 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

masotramp

*grin*




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(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:10:35 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Look at the HISTORY of the leather world. 


OK so you can't. Look I cared enough to look at your link and show you a research path supporting my position. If you can not be arsed to do the same then don't take part in the discussion.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:11:49 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

For instance, a top says "stay still", they say this knowing that if the bottom moves at that moment they could be injured. The bottom is not being submissive by following that order, they are being self-disciplined by actually performing that order to prevent any injury to themself.


While I am sure that is true in some cases, it isn't in mine. When my Mistress said to "stay still", I did it because she said to. Not because I was trying to prevent injury. And 90% of the time, she said it because she knew it was difficult for me to hold still and she's a bit of a masochist. Didn't have anything to do with me being injured.



I'm sure this is true for you. As I pointed out earlier, my wording was less than stellar in that comment. I was only attempting to point out that there are other forms of discipline. Discipline from a Dominant/Top and self-discipline.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:14:29 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		You are citing questionable and dead links.

Leather Archives is an internationally recognized source.  

So.. keep with your rainbow and unicorn ideas.   No skin off my nose.

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:16:15 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
Leather Archives is an internationally recognized source.  


Which supports my position, not yours.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:18:18 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS

quote:

can you not accept that there what you have learnt online is not the only way and in fact, is probably incorrect?


The problem is I can point to resources cemented in history, if only 10 years old but that's the limit of the tools, whereby what's the evidence on the otherside? Is it "I think it stands for something else" ?

That plus, ya know, the poll which shows 77% (of a small sample size) agreeing D/s is a subset of BDSM.

But don't take it too seriously, we all lose :)



Ummm I am not discussing whether Ds is a subset of BDSM?
I am discussing that BDSM isn't necessarily a part of BDSM acronym.
You are citing castlerealm and online trash - Others cited the Leather archives - meat and bones offline 'lifestyle'(using that word loosely folks).  I'd cite StR SmtT and other such books and authors.
Are you going to flash up leathernroses and the steel door next?

the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:21:04 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bloodlineS
Links, scans, unrelated commentary.. come on. Something other than "I say so".



Not to sound obvious but... do you know where castlerealm comes from?

the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:21:49 AM   
bloodlineS


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:


Ummm I am not discussing whether Ds is a subset of BDSM?
I am discussing that BDSM isn't necessarily a part of BDSM acronym.
You are citing castlerealm and online trash - Others cited the Leather archives - meat and bones offline 'lifestyle'(using that word loosely folks).  I'd cite StR SmtT and other such books and authors.
Are you going to flash up leathernroses and the steel door next?

the.dark.


Shame, as that's the subject of the thread.

Yes someone cited Leather Archives, only in the sense of referring to it, they didn't actually quote anything from it that proved anything, despite being asked to. Indeed did you even read that I showed my position from using that site?

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:30:05 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		why should I quote it?  you have evidently taken castle realm as the be all - end all

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to bloodlineS)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: BDSM a subset of D/s or vice versa? - 2/10/2010 10:30:25 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		Why is it so important to be "right" rather than accept the fact that others will hold different views?

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Profile   Post #: 80
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