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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It doesn't make me intolerant that I do not self identify as a doormat and that I have a negative view of the term.

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Well Icarys, you have to appreciate that there is more 'dominance' exibited by those identifying as submissive than there is from those self labeled dominant.

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

I would expect any sub/slave to be able to adhere to a set of boundaries that their Dominant partner establishes. (i.e. No Drinking without permission) and to not be a doormat when interacting with other people and be assertive about it. (i.e. No thank you I'm not drinking tonight, or let me make a phone call first). This would require Discipline.

A sub/slave lacking Discipline, just might give in to the pressure of social influence of friends, family, neighbors or whoever and end up breaking boundaries because of her Doormatted Submissive Nature.

All of which has nothing to do with the concept of being a Doormat that lends itself to abuse. Because she is letting other people walk all over her and the boundaries set forth by her Dom/Master/Owner.

Intially I was not looking at Doormat being applied in this context, but rather with regards to abuse.

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Except that having Masters orders to focus on is what enabled me to become less of a doormat to the rest of the world. Before I was with him I sucked at boundaries, self discipline and all the rest. I could muster up assertiveness if I reallly really had to, but otherwise not at all. Now that Master has put all of these boundaries and rules into place for me, and my primary objective in life is to please him, it's easy for me to say no to someone else... hmmm being focussed on his pleasure and his rules gives me the backbone to not be a doormat to the world... a doormat only to him ;)

Having said that though I must add on that anytime someone wants something from me that doesn't conflict with my obedience to my Master..... I'm right back to doormat. In other words he is my guide... someone says can you... will you... and my immediate thought goes to what he would want me to do. If I know the answer is no, then I have no problem saying no, now. If i'm not sure then I have to ask him because otherwise I will slide right into some dumb comittment I never should have made and want to kick myself in the ass for, but can't bear to go back on! Essentially it's like I need him to tell me it's okay to say no.

I am definitely a doormat and I'm entirely okay with that. In fact, I would go one step futher and say one of the reasons I am so grateful for the way my life is, is because with my Master i can be me... I can be a doormat, I can be less than brilliant, I can struggle with assertiveness... and it's all okay with him, he doesn't make me feel bad or ashamed of any of it. So now I can say I'm a doormat and honestly not care what anyone else thinks of it... not prideful, not ashamed... just matter of fact... doormat.
~s

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Wipe ~

It's threads and debates like this one that point to a contradiction in the belief that 'lifestyle' people are more intelligent than 'vanillas'. Perhaps it is something else. The precursor debate of distinguishing slave v. submissive; seems to have been played out and is now considered unworthy of comment for all but 'newbies' and those who enjoy mocking them. Is it the product of group insecurity displayed primarily in this thread by females afraid to be associated with the perception of negativity associated with a word? It's a word!

The power of it as a word doesn't come from the person saying it or even labeling you with it. The power derives from the recipient, or those afraid of being labeled by a word they feel denigrates them and what they do in the context of their relationship. It's a word. Whether as debate fodder, from ignorance, or out of jealousy; if it hurts or affects you the problem is with you.

Particularly amusing is when I see people assigning their personal aversion to a specific act to distinguish themselves from the doormat label. It's like the Meatloaf song; "I would do anything for love"!"; but I won't to THAT! Well hell then, okay in that case you're NOT a doormat!
Does that really help or change anything about whatever it is you do, or how you perceive yourself? If so - you need confidence more than you need a definitive word definition.

Really, what's the purpose or goal in coming to a common reference? What would happen if all other dictionary definitions and web references were reduced to one? Based upon the posts the only purpose it would serve would be to let people point to it as a benchmark to say what they are not. Defining what you are is a much more productive exercise. However, you have to be confident enough to not care what words, and which definition or reference they have in mind, when someone else uses them to try to describe you. That seems to be the disconnect and problem I'm observing regarding the word "doormat".

I agree absolutely..It's completely a personal issue...My only problem with any of it is the seemingly impossible ability of others to except that there are people who are a positive side of that word and that they have a right to be here just like everyone else..Whatcha gonna do *shurgs

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It doesn't make me intolerant that I do not self identify as a doormat and that I have a negative view of the term.

Just to clarify, that was never my intended point when discussing your distaste for the term.

By trying to isolate the specific traits people ascribe to doormats that come across negatively, I was actually hoping to partially get away from the word itself and focus on what traits everyone is keying in on.

• Somebody not opening up their mouth to inform me of a problem or issue because they did not want to upset me, lack of asserting or giving me the truth. As a Dominant I want to be aprised of things. I don't deal well somebody that lack backbone.
  
• Somebody that tips toes around me, like they are walking on egg shells, just tends to creep me out and makes me feel uncomfortable.
  
• Somebody that is fussing every friggen moment over if everything is alright, and up to my standards. My God women stop worrying about the number of ice cubes in my drink, or worrying about needing to refill it when it's at the half empty mark.
  
• Somebody that appears to be void of thought or opinion. I like to sound board my thoughts and ideas at times off somebody, perhaps see if they can see something in a different light and give me some insight. Damn Doormat, where's your mind cause I'd like to tap into it and harness it for a moment.
  
• Somebody trying to break their neck to open the door for me everywhere I go. It's okay back off, and let me take ahold and master opening the door.
  
• Somebody that seems to space out when I ask them, is there any place special you'd love to eat tonight. Instead of "I don't know" or "I don't care" every time I inquire into their preferences. God, drives me bat shit crazy to ask questions into an Empty Fracking Well.
  

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ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

And yet,we so often see these same women complaining about "feeling used and empty" after scenes. It's like going to a pusher for another fix.

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By the same turn, even for those folks who use a term by a different meaning than I do, use it in such a way that you see it as a good thing, fine, but you're still not going to find Me using it to reference you. Even if you outright tell Me that you see yourself in that way. My perceptions still come into play and if it's coming out of My mouth, I still have a part of it.

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Oh yeah, Doormat sex! Yes! I might as well been fucking a Doormat! Basically somebody where I could do anything thing in the world to, and they were not very excieting due to their extremely passive nature! Damn it, trying to bitch slap them into a more assertive mode helpless. A bit like tossing a ball for a dog, that just lays there and looks at it and does not move.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

And yet,we so often see these same women complaining about "feeling used and empty" after scenes. It's like going to a pusher for another fix.

That is a good analogy, however its not one sided. Just because I didn't like the attitude I encounter or wanted it as a dynamic in any relationship, doesn't mean I gave up the desire to get another 'fix'. What's a "pusher" if not a pharmacy without a license? The "pushers" drug just happens to fall outside the hypocritical acceptance of 'society'.

Considering modern societies image of the 'ideal woman' whose identity and status is determined by their 'career' or how many degrees they've obtained, submitting totally within their relationship would be counter to that indoctrination. Maintaining their conditional dominance avoids that representation and may be behind their aversion to any reference directed to them which results in the label 'doormat'.

"Feeling used and empty" is a likely result from these inner conflicts occurring after the 'itch' is scratched and the thought process moves up from focusing below the waist to above the neck.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What is the difference between a doormat and a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

• Somebody not opening up their mouth to inform me of a problem or issue because they did not want to upset me, lack of asserting or giving me the truth. As a Dominant I want to be aprised of things. I don't deal well somebody that lack backbone.
  
• Somebody that tips toes around me, like they are walking on egg shells, just tends to creep me out and makes me feel uncomfortable.
  
• Somebody that is fussing every friggen moment over if everything is alright, and up to my standards. My God women stop worrying about the number of ice cubes in my drink, or worrying about needing to refill it when it's at the half empty mark.
  
• Somebody that appears to be void of thought or opinion. I like to sound board my thoughts and ideas at times off somebody, perhaps see if they can see something in a different light and give me some insight. Damn Doormat, where's your mind cause I'd like to tap into it and harness it for a moment.
  
• Somebody trying to break their neck to open the door for me everywhere I go. It's okay back off, and let me take ahold and master opening the door.
  
• Somebody that seems to space out when I ask them, is there any place special you'd love to eat tonight. Instead of "I don't know" or "I don't care" every time I inquire into their preferences. God, drives me bat shit crazy to ask questions into an Empty Fracking Well.
  

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But, I can promise anyone out there if they used that term in reference to him, I sure as hell wouldn't be happy about it.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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By the same turn, even for those folks who use a term by a different meaning than I do, use it in such a way that you see it as a good thing, fine, but you're still not going to find Me using it to reference you. Even if you outright tell Me that you see yourself in that way. My perceptions still come into play and if it's coming out of My mouth, I still have a part of it.

I understand that and I don't subscribe to the idea that all submissives are "doormats" theories. Even though if you took someone who was totaly clueless about BDSM and let them in on how we the majority of us interact..They would no doubt say that they saw people being walked all over. No matter the submissive.

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I don't see any real conflict in a woman having personal power-and still being part of a team under his authority

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

This comes down to what people WANT to be referred to. What makes them happy or unhappy.

Very few, whether it is personally or professionally want to be thought of as a door mat on a day to day basis.

We all respect that guy we work with who lays down for every one......... don't we.

Jeff

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I remember seeing 'regulars' come into the old NYC clubs where I used to hang out, who were movers and shakers in the business world, strip off their Channel or Prada business suit and bend over a spanking bench with a sign hanging above it saying 'Beat ME!' to 'relieve' the tension they built up while working. They saw submission as a cathartic process that was irrelevant of applied 'dominant' or 'submissive' labeling. Funny, but back in that ancient history, I don't remember many occasions when those terms were even used. Indeed, the act and working of the sign itself can be viewed as dominating those who lined up to serve their desire.

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Yes, you are probably right there. I happen to think that extends to other words connected to us, especially to those without a given understanding. Even more so when a negative link has been made.

Take the word "sadist" for example. Now, I call Myself a sadist because it is an accurate description. Should you (meaning you personally, Icarys) call Me a sadist, with your perception of the word, you'd probably be quite correct also. Yet, I know there are those out there who automatically link the word sadist with 'abuser' because of their own perceptions. While they would be literally correct, the perception wouldn't be. Sure, we could try to educate that person that there is more than one way to see it, much like what some have tried to do here. Still, even with that knowledge, the negative link may not break and it still because synonymous with abuser.

I know I'm in the very slim minority on this discussion. Truthfully, it's not a negative link in regard to submissives at all. It's a link that extends in both the kink and the non kink world that My mind automatically goes to in relation to those who have self identified as such. I'm doing a piss poor job of explaining it, but it's got a lot more to do with people who have harmed or taken advantage of those who may identify this way.

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

This comes down to what people WANT to be referred to. What makes them happy or unhappy.

Very few, whether it is personally or professionally want to be thought of as a door mat on a day to day basis.

We all respect that guy we work with who lays down for every one......... don't we.

Jeff

Yes we do . . . oh, that's right, I was thinking of the porn industry.
[edit to add]

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I remember seeing 'regulars' come into the old NYC clubs where I used to hang out, who were movers and shakers in the business world, strip off their Channel or Prada business suit and bend over a spanking bench with a sign hanging above it saying 'Beat ME!' to 'relieve' the tension they built up while working. They saw submission as a cathartic process that was irrelevant of applied 'dominant' or 'submissive' labeling. Funny, but back in that ancient history, I don't remember many occasions when those terms were even used. Indeed, the act and working of the sign itself can be viewed as dominating those who lined up to serve their desire.

I don't remember those terms either . . . or the witch hunting judgmentalism. It was sort of us against them, BDSM vs vanilla world. Now, online, the temperament often feels like it is us against us.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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But, I can promise anyone out there if they used that term in reference to him, I sure as hell wouldn't be happy about it.

'Doormat' doesn't set me, nor beth obviously, off in a rage. However, I can imagine circumstances and sources where addressing beth as 'beth' would.

Actions, context, source, expectation, and attitude conveyed are far more important to me than any attempt to mock by using a term the speaker deems insulting. I'll let a label applied to beth go by and, if anything, laugh at the ignorance displayed by the labeler. However, nobody gets away with an attempt to hurt her. No label assigned in an attempt to define her would, or could, do so.