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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:16:20 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Domiguy,

Am going to try to respond to your posts in as polite a manner as possible. You are very good, in a general basis, of making a smart assed and sarcastic comments that state a thinly veiled important truth. i have seen you do this from time to time in many threads.

i have also read previous posts from you stating your desire for a submissive who has not been screwed up by life. So given those posts, i can understand to a degree where your posts in this thread are coming from.

And yes i have lived through some abuse in my past, i do not deny that truth. If you knew me as a person, which i know you do not, just as i don't know you as a person, instead of just pixels on a page. But if you knew me as a person, you would see that i am one of the most mentally and emotionally secure people you would ever want to meet. Yes i have lived through abuse, i have also spent a great deal of time dealing with the effects of said abuse so that it, for the most part, does not negatively impact my interactions with others, with my life. Is that healing complete, obviously not, or i wouldn't have started this thread to begin with.

However the fact that i still have some fears that i need to work on and some wounds that haven't completely healed, doesn't make me mentally unstable, nor a co-dependent energy vampire that drains the life out of the people i am in relationship with.

While i appreciate the you have taken the time to comment on this thread, please understand, i am not the person you seem to be describing.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:20:18 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		too flippant.

Not addressing you. You do have big boobs. Which has nothing to do with anything.



< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/2/2010 3:22:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:20:56 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Carp on a flyrod is a GREAT time!


back to your regularly scheduled thread


Jeff

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:22:05 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Falkenstein/Henry

Thank you for your post. i can see where having some fear can be helpful from both sides of the kneel. It sounds like your way of "checking in" works well for you and i know it would be something that i would appreciate in an M/s relationship/

Thank you again for your reply

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Falkenstein)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:23:10 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Ah sorry, i misunderstood, i thought you were addressing me as the OP and yes i do.

Thanks for explaining.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:28:03 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

That was the question that i was asking. In regards to your M/s relationship, do you expect the same level of openness and vulnerability from yourself that you would require from Dominasola? Please forgive me if this is too personal a question.

heartfelt

No need to apologize at all!

I expect the same level of vulnerability and openness from my partners as I do from myself. I have the tendency to want to be entirely open and actually am able to feel more comfortable letting it come out as it will when I can tell my partner is surrendering to that vulnerability.

While I gravitate to some extremes of the M/s dynamic, I view my relationships as family constructs and am very oriented to all the intimacies that come with that partnership.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 3:41:18 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		NZ,

Thank you for your response to my question. If i were to have an eventual Master who has the same standards of openness that he requires for himself as he requires from me, it would help greatly with the fear that i have mentioned. i also know that might not necessarily be the case. In fact, in my experience, your view on it is not the norm for D-types. At least with the ones that i have met and know personally. But it did give me something else to look for in a potential Master.

Thank you again for your reply,

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 4:17:13 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I have always wondered how much of this stems from, abuse, neglect, mental illness and/or unreconciled or untreated traumas from one's past.

Seems an incredibly prevalent theme.



Seriously does your past fit this profile as well? Is this where your desires stem from?

~Maple Syrup


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I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/2/2010 4:29:50 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I have always wondered how much of this stems from, abuse, neglect, mental illness and/or unreconciled or untreated traumas from one's past.

Seems an incredibly prevalent theme.



Seriously does your past fit this profile as well? Is this where your desires stem from?

~Maple Syrup



~smiles~

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/3/2010 1:34:56 AM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Falkenstein/Henry

Thank you for your post. i can see where having some fear can be helpful from both sides of the kneel. It sounds like your way of "checking in" works well for you and i know it would be something that i would appreciate in an M/s relationship/

Thank you again for your reply

heartfelt


Heartfelt,

I have to thank you too.

Now, if you allow a more personal remark from an old Europe guy.

I had a look at your profile, and, with your posts, I formed the picture of a gracious, kind, good looking, intelligent, sensitive, remarkably articulate person. Suma summarum, if not the perfect companion in a vanilla relation or the ideal sub in a MD/s, quite a good approximation. You are mind is of the kind of gems I mention in my profile as being the highest prize a man can hope for.

By the way, this may sound like I make a pass to (or on?) you, but I a terribly bad Christian, absolutely unrelocatable, thus these are just my opinions, not an attempt to climb in you bed.

That your husband could cheat on you may pass for a moment of folly, that he used that as a pretext to leave you is the most stupid thing I read since Lincoln said "it's so stuffy in the White House, let's us have some fun and go to the theater." The Anglo-saxon lovelife and mating procedures will probably forever remain a mystery to me.

Spring is coming! Have a nice bright day!

Henry

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/3/2010 2:37:49 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Falkenstein/Henry

(smiling) Thank you for your reply. To address the issue about my ex-husband, i actually do understand why he did what he did. i am not saying it did not have its emotional repercussions and that it didn't make me very angry for many years, but underneath it all, i understood what drove him to do what he did. He had been married once before he was married to me, his childhood sweetheart and he walked in on her and his best friend in bed together when he got off duty one day. He took her back and then she left him. Fast forward 20 plus years, and his current wife (me) finds that her sexually and sexual needs are all tied up in this BDSM stuff, something he didn't do and he once again had a wife that he wasn't sexually satisfying. Although he denies it, he had to be feeling sexually inadequate and he cheated to make himself feel sexually adequate. i know this for a fact because of what he said afterwards, that those women didn't have a problem with him sexually.

So i understood the past wounds that motivated his actions and could have and did forgive him. What ended up ending it was his refusal to go get help to deal with those issues and because he wouldn't get help, my inability to rebuild trust in him. i knew the underlying weakness still existed and would eventually be given in to again. During the time that we tried to rebuild our relationship, i was more "demanding" of him than i had ever been. And although he told me, his ending the relationship had nothing to do with my actions, but rather his sense of guilt, given my history, i didn't really believe him. He and i have since communicated more on the issue and i have resolved some of those feelings of being too much work. As can be seen from this thread, it hasn't been completely resolved (grinning) but i am working on it.

Thank you again for your reply,

heartfelt

*edited for a typo

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 3/3/2010 2:38:26 AM >

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Falkenstein)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/3/2010 8:12:49 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Even if someone has some self-esteem struggles, I think they can still make a positive contribution to the relationship, and some people really blossom within them. Feeling *happier* when you're dating someone than when you're single seems pretty normal to me - if that wasn't the case, I'd think that something was wrong with the relationship! There's a big difference in degree between that, and someone who *constantly* needs verbal and other reassurance, or who outright can't function outside of a relationship, so jumps into the next one without putting any thought into what went wrong.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/3/2010 3:03:57 PM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		heartfelt,

your words explaining (excusing?) your ex-husband are most gallant.

I may sound utterly hypocritical, but I do not think that there should be such a strong correlation between sex, love and marriage.

Marriage is a life-long commitment. It is kept alive and livable by friendship, care, a sense of duty, of being there for the other in good and in bad times. Love, alas, comes and go. Given our current live expectancy, to hope that it will last say 70 years is .. well just that, hope. The poster children of love, Romeo and Julia, were just that too: children, and their end shows to me no sense of responsibility. As for sex, well it should correlate with love and marriage, but if it does not and the rest go well.. As a priest, who is a good friend of mine, said, when God created sex as a way to reward love and to cement marriage, the life expectancy was a lot shorter, now we have to use other human forces, like friendship to keep a marriage going. Also, the occasions of mishaps growing with the years, we need to pardon more what was before unpardonable. This does not absolve us of trying hard to keep the right course, but one should not abandon the ship at the first leak (or for the culinary minded, abandon the sheep at the first leek?)

I must sound like an alien to you (BTW, the decor of the movie Alien were made by a Swiss, and LSD is also a Swiss invention...) but I like to think my relation instead of "just" experiencing them.

As for a DM/s relationship I have two measures of success: a minimal and an optimal one.

The minimal was once explained to me by a submissive lady with excellent thinking, who post here from time to time: I will try to summarise her words so: A person would stay in a relationship if the emotional balance for her/him is kept positive and better than other alternative. For example, a sub will stay in a relation will a dominant treating her moderately well or even imposing her things she really do not like if, all in all, the relationship has enough positive aspects to counterbalance the negative ones. The dominant, assuming he is completely in control of what happens in the relationship (a big if, in my experience), can optimize his pleasure as long he keeps his sub just satisfied enough not to leave. This I call a Porsche / Nissan Micra relationship: The dominant drives a Porsche to work, the sub a Micra, she has the bare minimum, he has most of the relation, but both get enough.

My goal in any relation is to make sure that a) the maximum of pleasure and fulfillment is obtained, and b) that this pleasure and fulfillment is shared equally between both partners, to take the picture from above: He drives Audi, she is underway in her BMW, different pleasures, but equal Fahrvergnügen, at least on dry roads. This ideal of equality is already difficult to reach in a vanilla relationship where both parties have equals voices, it becomes very illusive when the partner says: "do with this slave what you want" or " i just want to please you".

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/3/2010 3:29:38 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you Falkenstein/Henry for your reply. i agree that the basis of any long term relationship has be friendship, if fact that has been the starting basis of both of the long term relationships in my life. No, you don't sound like an alien to me, i agree that one doesn't jump ship at the first leak. And i am personally hoping for an optimal MD/s relationship where both of us have all or our needs met.

Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Falkenstein)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/5/2010 9:52:27 AM   
BelleNoir


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/5/2010
From: Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

hi heartfelt

wonderful post!

often i have said... and it pisses some off... that most slaves start out being submissives, meaning the trust level isnt there... yet. Over time, trust develops, allowing the relationship to grow deeper. before you know it, with the right dominant, your a slave... lol... and you will never see it coming.




I think that as you get to know and love someone it becomes a natural evolution When this happens with the right person it is truly beautiful.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/5/2010 10:22:51 AM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub


i have my own definition of what it would mean to me, my own internal definition of a slave.



And that, boys and girls, is all that matters.

You, and I hope everyone else here, are not here to bend, twist and contort themselves into another's ideal of their need or want. The little likes and don't likes field is there for a reason, it is the buffer zone for you to ferret out who is more simpatico with you. It would be helpful if people looked at those and actually believed it.

In this medium we have a vast opportunity to embrace this very short thing called life and spend more quality time with someone we want... not need. Like a zillion other sites there is a cache of people looking for what they need in their lives and that is the problem; you have to know, upfront and now, what you need before you can obtain it. No one else is going to wave the magic whip of domination or submission and fulfill those needs, only you can determine those needs.

Once those needs are understood you can wade through the ocean of D's and /s's and see who is going to meet those needs. If your lucky that person or persons will fulfill a whole mess of the want's too... but my position is and always will be that the want is superfluous, if the needs are met the wants are often a side effect.

heartfeltsub, I offer you my admiration for understanding, what I perceive to be, your needs.

SLURP!


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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/6/2010 6:17:18 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Wow, what an honor, slurped by a troll. my life is complete (huge grin).

Thank you for the reply. Interesting thought on wants vs needs. Will have to think about it some more.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/6/2010 11:31:13 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		hfs, whether or not 'most' masters are interested in being emotionally vulnerable isn't important. You aren't looking to be compatible with most, but with one. So make that part of your criteria in a partner, that they seek to be as open with their partner as they seek her to be open with him.

And yes, they exist. I would never have entered this relationship if he were to be protecting himself while demanding I be at risk. If he were that fearful, I wouldn't have considered him capable of having a healthy relationship. That shrieks insecurity to me, and I don't find that a trait that attracts me. We're both open and vulnerable.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/6/2010 4:55:52 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Celeste,

That has gone on my list. When my ex-Dominant and i broke up, i created a list of what i am looking for, some fall under the category of wants, some needs, but it is a good list to help remind myself so if i start getting my submissive switch flipped, i check out the list to see where that person is, do his characteristics, personality traits, even make the list.

Thank you for the reply,
heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 3/6/2010 7:11:48 PM   
Hawkwindblues


Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		The same amount of vulnerability and openness to give and to expect is a very balanced starting point.

Coincidental i am organised the same and i have very good experiences with it. Hierarchies in realations develop by themselves per time and i do not belief in a forever unchanging hierarchy in and of itself, although hierachy courts are being builded by themselves. But i do not know of any longstanding relationship , where only one person has superior abilities and can cover all courts in the sense of necessary fortes for a human being between adults.. One can be the better leader and be better in the perception and allocation of the resources in the relation, but one can never cover all. The best leaders are able to understand when and if they are not at their best and have had the wisdom to choose the people around them, that can partly or for a certain time lead.

Heartfeltsub your post for domiguy was great and well thought out and i would like to ask you - stepping away from labels - what are you really afraid of? If you look for example at KoM and his family or at Mernbeth ( and i use the label slave here for the female particpants) you would and could the see the amount of love, respect, safety and reliability they feel for each other is equal or nearly equal. Hopefully i did not interpreted the long time i read their posts in a wrong way and if i did so i would be indeed very interested to be corrected.

Is the topic the ability to love and/or be in a relation with everything you have and be? If that is the question, i am not somebody who can really answer, because that was the reason i singled nihiluszeros words out, because i am with all i have and be are into relations, even for the short smile with an old lady. The care, attention and interest is always the same.

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

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Profile   Post #: 200
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