RE: Afraid To Be A Slave

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tazzygirl -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 9:09:33 PM)
hmmm... maybe im wrong, but i didnt read his comment the same way you did. i read it as slave only to me at this point and time. in other words.. while his slave.. slave to no other than him.. if that makes sense.

Icarys -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 9:11:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I wouldn't want a woman who could be a slave to anyone but me. A little tongue in cheek here, just discussing, no disrespect intended. [;)] This doesn't make sense to me - it implies that a woman only could have one M/s relationship in her whole life. What if you were to die way before her? Is she doomed to be a "slave spinster"? Relationships do end, and change, over time.....is she only allowed one in her life? Also good luck to her finding you in the millions of Doms on this planet...... [:)] Some people want to feel Reallllly special.

juliaoceania -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 9:11:35 PM)
quote: But i still contend that there are submissive women who will never reach that point of "letting go" completely, no matter who is the D-type in her life, or how "safe" he enables her to feel. And that's fine, not everyone is fulfilled in that way. True.... Letting go is all subjective anyways... Good healthy relationships have connected partners. That connection does not need D/s or M/s to exist, and I am going to be honest, from what I have read on message boards about these relationships, (and I am not talking about those who contribute here on a regular basis) I am dubious about the ability of people to truly connect in them much of the time. I am about to set myself up to get flamed, but I have done a great deal of thinking on this topic, and it just seems to me that the structure stuff usually gets in the way of the entire communication and trust building thing. Personally, and I am only speaking for myself, I can only deal with building a relationship as a completely contributing equal... and I didn't feel like one when I was wearing my S-cap all the time. He didn't feel I was either. Now we had many issues, not the least of which was his feeling out of control over many aspects in his own life, most importantly dealing with his physical health and chronic disabling pain... and wearing my sub hat in that situation just did not help. I deeply appreciate heartfeltsub's openness and perspective about her life... it maybe invaluable for many to read. Me, I am not afraid of being a slave, it just doesn't fit with my purpose on Planet Earth. It isn't that I have worked hard to get where I am, Lord knows that I have, but that is not it. I have this drive to finish that which I started, and for me, that couldn't be done in a 24-7 D/s or M/s relationship. I have to be autonomous to go the places I need to go. I have this journey I am on, and I am hoping to serve far more than one man on this journey, I am hoping that I get the awesome chance to help humanity. I have to complete my journey... I have to get my PhD. I have to do the things that I have an innate talent to do... and I will say, Sinergy has supported me in more ways than one on that journey... Simply, he is my best friend, even when we haven't talked because of life stuff, he has always been my friend... I love him, and he knows it well... but at this point in both our lives, we have different needs than 24-7 D/s,... whatever that means. We just relate. How we relate is very D/s most of the time, but there is no definition of it being so. We are doing the "dating" thing. There is no expectations that I should fill some role, and I have no such expectations on him at this point. I am just enjoying being "me" without trying to fit some predefined role, even a role that he has defined... and oh lord am I happy these days as a result... I do not know why I wrote this, other than to show that not only are some of us not afraid of slavery, some of us just want to "be".... whatever "being" is

UniqueRaven -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 9:14:25 PM)
Ah yes, i agree with that. Thank you for the different interpretation.

NihilusZero -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 9:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I wouldn't want a woman who could be a slave to anyone but me. A little tongue in cheek here, just discussing, no disrespect intended. [;)] This doesn't make sense to me - it implies that a woman only could have one M/s relationship in her whole life. What if you were to die way before her? Is she doomed to be a "slave spinster"? Relationships do end, and change, over time.....is she only allowed one in her life? Also good luck to her finding you in the millions of Doms on this planet...... [:)] Some people want to feel Reallllly special. You know, honestly...that was my initial reaction too. It's like saying that you wouldn't want a slave who would have sex with anyone but you (and, presumably, hasn't before). It's a greater focus on personal grandeur than on the actual submissive qualitities of the s-type. But, to be honest, I seek out those sorts of relationships as well. As in...I've built up many of my relationship abilities and skills (consciously or not) towards being the sort of person that pushes my partner into greater territories of surrender and internal intoxication...and that usually comes with a more profound level of emotional reciprocation (which sometimes results in good things and other times results in really bad things, but that's the nature of relationships after all). So, while I'm initially apprehensive about how idealistic Michael's comments are, particularly since I do not espouse ye olde "submission is a gift" notion, the motivation to seek out a partner to whom I am the epitome is a notable thing for me and something I understand. I've actually named the inclination towards being so the "Anakin Syndrome", when referring to it during discussions with past and present partners.

Icarys -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/25/2010 10:43:23 PM)
quote: So, while I'm initially apprehensive about how idealistic Michael's comments are, particularly since I do not espouse ye olde "submission is a gift" notion, the motivation to seek out a partner to whom I am the epitome is a notable thing for me and something I understand. I've actually named the inclination towards being so the "Anakin Syndrome", when referring to it during discussions with past and present partners. I agree and to a degree sure..I want that female to look at me with love and respect. I just don't follow the emotionally vain line of thinking I see in posts like that. I like a nice even keel kind-o-feel when it comes to reality if you know what I mean.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 1:53:14 AM)
Wow, first blown away by the responses and second will be addressing more of the responses individually. Thank you all for responding and in addition to responding, i will be adding more to the initial picture. Thanks again.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 1:55:26 AM)
Thank you Red for this reply. i figured, i can't just sit in the dark so to speak decrying (sp?) the lack of light, if i was not willing to personally light a candle (ie bare my soul). Thanks again for your reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 2:02:46 AM)
Kyst, Thank you for your reply. May i ask a question, please if it makes you uncomfortable, please feel free to pass on answering it. Are you saying for you, having limits or boundaries where your Dominant can't exert authority keeps you safe in submission and when you feel those limits falling away, it puts you in a bad place mentally, emotionally? Thank you again for your reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 2:32:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl hi heartfelt wonderful post! often i have said... and it pisses some off... that most slaves start out being submissives, meaning the trust level isnt there... yet. Over time, trust develops, allowing the relationship to grow deeper. before you know it, with the right dominant, your a slave... lol... and you will never see it coming. now, this isnt true for all submissives... or slaves. those who play (and thats not a dig, some just prefer to do casual play) give up that control based upon agreed upon terms, then regain them afterwards. or at least that is my understanding. for myself, its all about the trust. once that is gained, the doors open and there is very little i can, or want, to say no too. *Bolded for emphasis Thank you tazzy for your reply. i wanted to comment on this point. In my "BDSM" life, i have two longish relationships (4 and 6 years respectively), one with my ex-Dominant who initially was brand new in the "lifestyle" although being strongly natually Dominant and another, a person who was supposed to "just" be a play partner, someone who was poly and already had two full-time girls, who i just couldn't seem to say no to, because he is so strongly naturally Dominant that even things that i limited for play (like humiliation play) got done because during the "heat of the moment" i couldn't say no. i then, afterwards went back and reiterated the no on some things, emphasizing that if that limit was broached again, i would be gone forever. But with this man, i seem to have no will, when face to face with him. His Dominance throws my submissive switch and it is almost instanteous complete submission. This person is no longer someone i play with because of a number of reasons, but i bring it up to say, i know i have the capacity in me to give almost instanteous complete submission and i have to fight to make sure to do that with someone who is emotionally healthy for me. And while i agree, that after trust is established, giving up personally held boundaries may sneak up you, that is also part of the fear that i face. With my ex-husband, that is part of what occurred. He and i were married when i was 18, he was 24 and we were married fo 23 years. Because of my childhood, i had a number of insecurities and issues to deal with. In fact for many years, i did not even remember, still don't mostly, anything prior to the 5th or 6th grade (same teachers both years hard to remember which year i am really remembering) because of being sexually abused repeatedly during my 3rd and 4th grade years. So what my mind did was wipe out every memory prior to those events. When i finally got strong enough to face those memories, it was at that point that i actually finally had a sex drive and this is what it was. It was during the time of dealing with the sexual abuse and its ramifications that i got to the point of completely letting my ex-husband in. There was no place internally that i didn't show him or allow him access. His response to this was for the first time in our marriage (of 19 years at that point) to cheat with other women (longer story that i am making it here) and then because of his guilt over cheating (after trying to fix it for a couple of years) to want a divorce. So both instanteous openness and also allowing trust to grow and then potentially having it end both scare me. Now the fact that it scares me, doesn't mean i won't face it. In fact this thread is part of how i am facing it mentally before having to face it physically. i don't like being controlled by my fears. In fact, i won't let myself be controlled by them. Because of how i came to realize that i am submissive, i was concerned for many years that my submission was an after effect of the sexual abuse, but i came to realize that is not the case. However for a while, i stifled any submissive longings, etc because i didn't want my life, wouldn't allow my life or any part of my life to still be controlled by what happened to me in the past. i made myself give blood for years to get over my fear of needles, until now, with certain players, needle play is one of my favorite forms of play. i made myself ride roller coasters, which i hate, no loathe isn't even a strong enough word. And although i still don't like them, i wouldn't let my fear control me. And so it is with this fear, in the end, i will not let it win. However, hopefully with all this extraneous explanation, you can see where it comes from. Again thank you for your reply and any further reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 2:46:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I want to look at your specific question because that is one I can answer. I really can't say how I feel about being called his slave, but I can say that it has been both a scary and very natural thing to let go things to the point that I am today. I found it most intimidating when I had to choose to hand something over to him. He has my ALL, but in some areas he does not utilize it and it seems to be because he wants me to get to a place of need and desire for him to exert that control. That is very hard to do. It means I am saying I have this thing that matters so much to me, but I need his hand upon it. It is so much easier when he just takes up something himself and I just have to watch it go. I have taken on his limits as my own rather than imposing mine on him. The scary thing was how far apart our limits were, with mine the more conservative list by far. That means I am well outside of any measure of a comfort zone. I don't think we've crossed into but maybe two of those off limits territories and it happened rather quickly. Others lay down the road and I know this full well. Those things are very scary to me, but I trust him. He has taken his time with me and pushed slowly in those directions. He won't do it until he knows I can handle it. I appreciate that. He doesn't have to and he knows it. I think if there wasn't some area that he pressed in me that didn't give me a little butterflies I would think something was wrong. He always has me growing and changing, facing demons, and confronting preconceived notions. That is an endless well for him to use. Doing such things is scary. It is never easy. If it were, we'd have done it on our own by now. I love that he believes I am capable. I think sometimes he accepts me and respects me more than I do myself and that is an amazing thing. No, the fear never quite goes away, but it is fear of me, not him. I know I am safe and I know whose arms I will be in when it's all over. lovingpet Hmm, "fear of me, no him". i don't know if that is where i am at, well it isn't because more me, at the moment, this is all a mental exercise or supposition, as there is no him at the moment. But having said that, for me, it is a fear of that he will not be there as i said in NZ's doormat thread. What happens if i give him all that i have to give, lay myself bare again, and after seeing it, for whatever reason, his weakness (like was the case with my ex-husband) or whatever, he is no longer there. Whether it is meant or not, i know that i would take that as a rejection of who i am as a person, that i was not enough or something. i can deal with rejection, and it may be that i would never build my life around someone the way i did with my ex-husband, because i am to old to have children with any one else. However, with him, there was no time, past, present or future that i didn't see him in, if that makes sense. i married him at 18 after starting to date him when i was 16, married to him for 23 years and we were just getting to the kick the kids out of the nest phase so that we could enjoy time together alone again when it fell apart. So that is not something that i think would ever occur again. So the level of intimacy or need may have been more induced by number of years together and not that i had finally become completely vulnerable to him, but i am not sure. Hence the stupid fear (not calling any one else's fear stupid, i just don't like fear ruling my life). So giving all, instantly, but having him not work in those areas might make it easier, but i think i would still have that underlying fear, similar to what you described, but from a different source. Hopefully that made some sort of sense. Thank you again for replying. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:00:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists Oh, hell yes! Over five years ago, there was no way in hell I was going to be a slave; I was not going to give someone that much authority in my life. What is that saying, "The best laid plans of mice and men..."? The first step for me in overcoming those fears were to find someone with a character that I admire and could trust with my life. I didn't look at his list of likes/dislikes and match them up with mine; if I had done that I would have slammed that door so fast. Is he someone who plays fast and loose with the truth or is he honest and forthright? Does he do things recklessly without consideration of the consequences or does he look at it from all angles and decides what would be best for the relationship? He lives his life with integrity and he has a code of honour that he adheres to no matter how difficult it may make things for himself. "Do my will; harm none" is what he lives by and over the last five years I have watched him walk that truth. He has put aside things he wanted and desired because he was not certain that it wouldn't harm our relationship. He spent countless hours talking and working with me, so that I could move past my fears and do his will. The other thing for me, is that fear has been a constant companion of mine for as long as I can remember. I have social anxiety disorder; at times it is worse than others, but I cannot recall a time that it was not there. I have pushed myself time and time again to get past the fear; often I face it head on and do what I want to do despite being scared shitless. A story that is so representative of me is that I learned to downhill ski at the age of 38. Because of the anxiety, I was not one to be in sports, but skiing is a past time that everyone else in our family loves, so I pushed myself to learn. I would literally be shaking in fear, with sweat running down my back and I would force myself to get up on that hill and ski. Now, I love it and I am not sure how much of it is the activity that I love or if I love it because I conquered my fear. In our relationship, he wasn't really willing to settle for less than having complete authority over every aspect of my life. I just can't see myself responding to him in any other way than to do his will. I work at a job that I don't enjoy because it is his will that I do it. The job is extremely stressful to me and I come home completely wiped out and I find my enjoyment in the rest of my life diminshing because of the stress. I know that he will either find a way to help me reduce the stress of he will allow me to find another job. A big part of what he did for me was to provide a solid security base for our relationship. A lot of the fear for me has been, 'how am I going to pick up the pieces if I or it falls apart' and know without a shadow of doubt that I will not have to pick up those pieces by myself. He and Alandra will be there right along beside me; there are no individual problems, there are 'our issues' and we deal with them all together. Even if for some unknown reason, the relationship ends, he will be there to make sure I get back on my feet and that I am strong enough to carry on. That is his character and that is what I rely on. Knight's Kyra Thank you so much for replying Kyra. That part that i bolded first made me cry, then it made me think. At first i thought that that is what i would desperately like to feel with someone. i mentioned in response to someone else's posts that i went through a time of dealing with the repercussions of being sexually abused as a child. i went through a repeated series of counseling sessions in a group setting, with the first time going through that being the worst (emotionally speaking). Each week when i would go, i would go alone, my ex-husband didn't go with me. When i would come home wrung out, i would then go to my room (actually both our bedroom) and curl up into a little ball and cry alone, no one helping me pick up the pieces. Now part of that was because i hate for someone to see me that weak and vulnerable (so my fault) some of that was because of my ex-husband's own issues that he couldn't deal with seeing me that way. But the point is, i thought i would desperately like to not be alone in times like that. And then i thought i have experienced to a degree with my ex-Dominant, who is still a great friend of mine. When he and i ended the D/s portion of our relationship, he did help me deal with some of the internal and emotional issues, i didn't have to face it entirely alone. When ended through no particular fault of any person, circumstances changed. It wasn't a mutual thing, meaning we both didn't want it to end, it was his decision to end it, so i did end up hurting. But he still, as i could, as i wanted to, talked with me, let me get out my hurt, even though the D/s part of the relationship was over. So thank you for helping me realize that. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:07:35 AM)
Thank you for your reply and especially the last paragraph. Although my mind, because i am working on this fear, tries to go, but what if he changes (like in the case of my ex-husband) or what if it just ends, that is similar to allowing myself to be to scared to drive or cross the street or whatever because something might happen. So thank you for your reply and especially the last paragraph.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:15:31 AM)
Thank you for your reply, but that is not the issue i face. i am not, nor was a raised to try to be all that i am without a man. The main fear is more, if i give up my job, or business and do the stay at home thing again, which i did quite willingly in the past, and the relationship ends, how do i support myself as get to retirement age. my mom is currently in a nursing home, albeit a nice one, because she never saved for her retirement and we can't afford at the moment to pay more than we already are. i don't want that for myself or my kids. i also, and part of this was my own stubbornness, but also part of this was my need to please and not be a bother, left a 23 year marriage with nothing, even though the ending of the marriage was not my "fault". i wasn't the one who cheated, i wasn't the one who wanted to end it. i didn't ask for alimony, because dammit, i will take care of myself and as i said i was stupid. So i don't need a high power career, i don't need my own business, i just happen to have one. What i need is to know that i will have a way to pay my bills when i need when i am older if a relationship that was supporting me, this mythical M/s relationship that i fear, dissolves. Thank you again for your reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: For those who are in M/s relationships where you as the s-type have taken on your Master's limit, thereby not limiting His authority in your life, did you face such fears, if so, how did you deal with them? it is something this slave had trained/prepared for as a youth and tried to accomplish within relationships her entire adult life. she wasn't aware that such a thing had a name like "Master/slave" relationship---or she would have sought it out when she was actively seeking out relationship partners. the closest she came to it when she was fishing in the vanilla pond was with someone who had a dominant personality but absolutely no integrity or conscience...and she almost lost her life. after several years of licking this slave's wounds, she healed and moved forward with trusting again...in herself, her path and what the Great Architect had in store for her. to be allowed, even encouraged to submit to another's desires/direction/authority/control, without having to "keep one eye open" while we sleep or limit his authority while awake...to have that drive to surrender respected...instead of dismissed as weak/doormatish/mentally ill behavior, to have it appreciated and used by Him, unfettered, for our mutual enjoyment---it's a beautiful existence so full of warmth, security, ecstasy, companionship, compatibility, fun and pleasure, there is no room for fear. i would love to get to such a place, where there is no room for fear. Thank you for your reply

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:21:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub If i were ever in a M/s relationship instead of a D/s relationship, i know that i would be one of those that takes on my Master's boundaries and limits, not limited his authority in my life. In a D/s relationship, albeit will limits on his range of authority, in a 4 year relationship, i never said no to a command. So to get to the point of this thread. For those who are in M/s relationships where you as the s-type have taken on your Master's limit, thereby not limiting His authority in your life, did you face such fears, if so, how did you deal with them? Or do you still have them? The problem with all this is that people put the cart before the horse. The worlds most "perfect" submissive is going to struggle in the wrong relationship or with the wrong master. Add in the fact that we all have "issues" of one form or another, we all have problems of some sort, and of course, some more than others. Until you meet someone who makes you WANT to let go because time and time again, you turn around and they are there, the nightmare looks in the window and there they are to take care of you, the reach across the bed to touch you without you even having to say anything OF COURSE YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FEEL SAFE BEING A SLAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know people who are world class dominants, amazing men who would laugh at the thought of someone "being" a slave at the start of a real relationship. It is something you grow into with some who proves themselves as worthy of your trust as you are of theirs. That part really made me cry. Yes i know i am putting the cart before the horse, but knowing me, i know to face my fears, i have to deal with them mentally, face them internally, logically, before i can overcome them physically. Thank you for your reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:23:55 AM)
sublizzie, Thank you for replying. i am so sorry that you are faced with this. Thank you for sharing this with me/us. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:42:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know why I wrote this, other than to show that not only are some of us not afraid of slavery, some of us just want to "be".... whatever "being" is Thank you for the reply Julia. Please understand that am not saying anyone other than myself is afraid of slavery. i know that deep down, buried but rising under after all these posts must be a mountain of fear is a desire to be a slave. i shudder even as i think it and write it. my friends keep telling me that i have a slave heart, although i am reticent to use that term myself. my point in this thread is not to push the "need" to be a slave onto anyone else, or to make it some sort of hierarchial thing where being a slave is better than being a submissive. i am just trying to deal with fears that i have seen in my life. Until a couple a months ago at a slave retreat that a friend of mine was holding, i wasn't even aware that buried deep down was even the desire to be a slave, so now that i know that it does in fact exist, i need to deal with the fears that keep it buried. Because, as i have previously stated, i hate letting fear control my life. Thank you again for your reply. heartfelt

Rule -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 3:46:59 AM)
It is impossible for a submissive to be a slave and vice versa.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 5:38:57 AM)
Heartfelt, truely excellent thread you've started. Your opening post struck upon something which is perhaps one of my greatest fears from the D side of the coin. What if somebody was so dependent upon me, to these extreme levels, what would happen to them in the event of my unfortunate death? Would their skills be so impaired that they would have a hard time functioning? I've always held this thought in my focus and have encourage personal growth and increased life skillsets in my partners. To Augment instead of Diminish the submissive. It's not in my nature to incapacitate somebody in manner where they are unable to function without me. In terms of my own personal beliefs. I come from the frame of mind that it's wise for a Master to pass along and impart the knowledge of survival, in the event some ill befalls the Master. I do not wish for my dismise to be the dismise of the submissive.

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