RE: Afraid To Be A Slave

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Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 4:00:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ...Same goes for Beth, a woman I see as anything but a "doormat" despite her self identifying as such... indeed, there are folks who won't see this slave as His "slave", either...because regardless of the FACT that there is no one-true-defintion-that-fits-all for slave, their own personal perception and prejudices preclude them from acknowledging it's legitimacy. we each operate under our own individual realities. this slave has been hanging out with herself for her entire life...and she can tell you, without hesitation, she's held down the role of slave, and even doormat for that matter, without anyone ever referring to her as either. I'm sitting here having a cup of coffee and cigerette, going back over the posts on this thread. It's Gem's, like this that reminds me of a simple truth. thank you.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 4:07:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Kana But, and not sniping, genuine curiosity, how difficult a struggle was it for you reaching that place? You know, I am not sure that I can answer that question with any chance of accurately portraying it. In a lot of ways it was as easy as breathing. In other ways, it was the second hardest thing that I have ever done (the first being overcoming 'major depressive disorder, severe'). It was hard when I was fighting who I was; it was easy when I just allowed myself to be. I spent many years building walls to protect my core. Until I met my Lord, I had not met one single person who understood and appreciated the core of who I was. Even my mom told me that I would have to hold back and not be me with my partners. Being me wasn't hard; overcoming all the conditioning and tearing down the walls that I had built was hard. In the beginning of my relationship, we were also long distance which adds its own emotional struggles, so it is hard to distinguish if the struggle was due to the distance or to being a slave. We have been living together for over two years now and the three of us fit so seamlessly together you would think we have been together for decades. A couple weekends ago, we were at an event and someone mentioned that they wanted what Alandra and I have with him. I really have to wonder if they want to be a slave to someone or do they just want to be in a relationship where they can be who they are with their partner(s). Do people see a couple and say "I want that" and make the mistake of saying "I want M/s" when what they really want is the joy and peace that comes from being who they are? Not sure if that answered your question or not. My brain is all jumbled and thoughts are flying faster than my fingers can type. Knight's Kyra Wow, i could echo that. Great post.

lally2 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 4:36:19 PM)
if it disgusts and repels them then theyre probably not into submissives or slaves. being vulnerable doesnt equate to weak either, though i understand where youre coming from, but if you could just see how much strength that would take for you, youd realise how strong you were being., and a Master that took you on would know that too. its so hard to explain how it goes, its one of those situations where you have to find it out for youreself. but the whole thing is organic and grows, it doesnt all fall into place right off the bat, not usually anyway, least not when youre entering Ms for the first time.

wisdomtogive -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/26/2010 5:57:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 if it disgusts and repels them then theyre probably not into submissives or slaves. being vulnerable doesnt equate to weak either, though i understand where youre coming from, but if you could just see how much strength that would take for you, youd realise how strong you were being., and a Master that took you on would know that too. its so hard to explain how it goes, its one of those situations where you have to find it out for youreself. but the whole thing is organic and grows, it doesnt all fall into place right off the bat, not usually anyway, least not when youre entering Ms for the first time. Thank you lally for your comments, especially the one that i highligted. I purposely have stayed out of the doormate debates and those of like threads, because to me it seems useless to explain what one cannot see nor understand. Strength is the foundation of this submissive/slave and it is found deep within me, and continues to grow. wisdomtogive

Lorenzo19 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 12:14:27 AM)
Fear of becoming a slave. slave according to OP's definition. Which coincidentally is close to My own. I have been in a M/s situation for 13 years with the same girl. Though We call it Daddy/little girl now. There was fear on both sides. Not just the slave side. Without going into the details of what happened I'll just draw conclusions. We were both afraid of the same thing... the unknown. What made things worse is We both vowed We would never part ways under any condition. What I call now: No Failure Points. Only death would seperate us. Like the old fashioned marriage vow only taken seriously. We joined because We wanted one thing - Commitment - more than We were afraid of the other thing: The Unknown. That's wierd if you think about it because Commitment feeds the fear. The fear of Commitment. But it is not fear of commitment. It's fear of the unknown. It's a wierd cycle that will never resolve itself. To overcome the fear enough to make the commitment there is only one solution: put the fear out of your mind or it will win. Like I used to tell nikki in the beginning: Damm the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! The fear was there for a long while and our vows have been severely tested. Now the fear is totally gone. We both have infinite faith in one another. After each test of Our vows, many times to the breaking point, our faith grew stronger and the fear withered. The feeling of "being to hell and back with a person and we're still standing and nothing is going to tear us apart"... There is no better feeling of glory. If I had to do it over again. I would do it in a heart beat. The moral of the story: "The only thing to fear is fear itself." Roosevelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 4:49:56 AM)
Thank you for your reply and for your insight. You make a very good point that the fear can be on both sides. Thank you again. heartfelt

crazyml -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 11:25:11 AM)
heartfeltsub. I've really enjoyed reading this thread, and although I don't have anything to add to the wonderful contributions made by everyone on the thread I just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone who has participated - absolutely rocking stuff. CM

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 11:39:13 AM)
Thank you CM

ThundersCry -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 4:26:05 PM)
you should be....afraid... Theres nothing wrong with that... Many submissives are...it just takes the right D to bring it out... Good luck...

KnightofMists -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 5:18:55 PM)
Heartfelt, You already have seen Kyra's response and I will give my response from a different perspective of the same relationship. I am rather highly suspicious of those s-types that reflect they have/had no fears. I realize there are exceptions in some cases and in those cases my concerns are easly are put to rest. But for the most part, such indiividuals are going to have all sorts of fears. I would say that one of the rewardings aspects for me and even a tool to measure my own progress in reaching inside my girl's mind and heart was causing her to take actions that defied her fears and even overcome them. For myself, I embraced those fears that Kyra had and even am grateful for them. I suppose I appreciate them so much more because Alandra was much different with regards to fears. She to a very great degree did not have them. Yes they where there but very subtle and in many ways irrelevant to hindering our progress or helping it for that matter. I would also state and I am not intending to be calous... but your history that generate such fears is rather irrelevant. It is indeed sad when people such as yourself have had a difficult past which does condition you to respond more intensely with various emotions. But the reasons of the past do not need to be issues of the present. All that is need is s person to appreciate that you have intense responses on those things that generate a fear response. As Kyra already shared she has intense responses to things that bring fear to her. My approach was not one to conquer those fears of her past. It was about bringing her mind to the present and making new history with us. My actions, our interactions developed the conditioning of her emtional responses that took precedents to those things in the past. I brought her to the Now! and Now was us! Bringing her to the Now made the past irrelevant. It makes her emotional responses about Now. The next step of course was being the right person where she could be exactly what she needed. This wasn't a question of me trying to be something. It would never work if I did. I had to be me... and if Me was the right key to bring her to now and release those fears it would... otherwise... well... she would of moved on

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/27/2010 9:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists Oh, hell yes! Over five years ago, there was no way in hell I was going to be a slave; I was not going to give someone that much authority in my life. What is that saying, "The best laid plans of mice and men..."? Same here. Except I just discovered bdsm just under a year and a half ago. I insisted up and down and sideways, "I am NOT a slave!!! I could NEVER be a slave!!!" and so here I am. Now I have to eat my words. ~slithering away sheepishly~ I never thought in a million years.......never say never.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 3:48:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Heartfelt, You already have seen Kyra's response and I will give my response from a different perspective of the same relationship. I am rather highly suspicious of those s-types that reflect they have/had no fears. I realize there are exceptions in some cases and in those cases my concerns are easly are put to rest. But for the most part, such indiividuals are going to have all sorts of fears. I would say that one of the rewardings aspects for me and even a tool to measure my own progress in reaching inside my girl's mind and heart was causing her to take actions that defied her fears and even overcome them. For myself, I embraced those fears that Kyra had and even am grateful for them. I suppose I appreciate them so much more because Alandra was much different with regards to fears. She to a very great degree did not have them. Yes they where there but very subtle and in many ways irrelevant to hindering our progress or helping it for that matter. I would also state and I am not intending to be calous... but your history that generate such fears is rather irrelevant. It is indeed sad when people such as yourself have had a difficult past which does condition you to respond more intensely with various emotions. But the reasons of the past do not need to be issues of the present. All that is need is s person to appreciate that you have intense responses on those things that generate a fear response. As Kyra already shared she has intense responses to things that bring fear to her. My approach was not one to conquer those fears of her past. It was about bringing her mind to the present and making new history with us. My actions, our interactions developed the conditioning of her emtional responses that took precedents to those things in the past. I brought her to the Now! and Now was us! Bringing her to the Now made the past irrelevant. It makes her emotional responses about Now. The next step of course was being the right person where she could be exactly what she needed. This wasn't a question of me trying to be something. It would never work if I did. I had to be me... and if Me was the right key to bring her to now and release those fears it would... otherwise... well... she would of moved on Knight, thank you for your reply. The bolded part is part of what i was trying to address with this thread. i agree with you that events of my past do not need to be issues in my present and future, that is my goal. For me to have my actions, interactions adversely affected by the events of my pasts would continue to make me a victim of those events and the people who perpetrated them and that is not something that i will allow. While i did not comment on your Survivor thread of years ago, having reread it recently my last statement brought that thread to mind. i refuse to allow myself to stay the victim of someone else's or my own actions and therefore was trying to address with this thread. Thank you again for your reply, heartfelt

KnightofMists -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 7:10:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i refuse to allow myself to stay the victim of someone else's or my own actions and therefore was trying to address with this thread. A key and important step to moving forward and thriving in life instead of existing or surviving. Thank you for reminding me of that old thread... there was alot of good perspectives in that one.

Frankseas -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 8:52:55 AM)
Fear is a good thing for us all Master/slave or Dom/subs. Fear keeps us aware and safe so we dont attempt stupid things that may harm us either mentaly or bodily! All slaves have some fears about life in general and some have doubts about the new Master. But some of those fears are their own self-doubts rising up to haunt them! A good Master will see those doubts and comfort their slave so they can get on with the good things in life. Fears or worrys, leave those to the Master to Handle!

lally2 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 1:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Heartfelt, . I am rather highly suspicious of those s-types that reflect they have/had no fears. I realize there are exceptions in some cases and in those cases my concerns are easly are put to rest. But for the most part, such indiividuals are going to have all sorts of fears. I would say that one of the rewardings aspects for me and even a tool to measure my own progress in reaching inside my girl's mind and heart was causing her to take actions that defied her fears and even overcome them. . I would also state and I am not intending to be calous... but your history that generate such fears is rather irrelevant. It is indeed sad when people such as yourself have had a difficult past which does condition you to respond more intensely with various emotions. But the reasons of the past do not need to be issues of the present. All that is need is s person to appreciate that you have intense responses on those things that generate a fear response. As Kyra already shared she has intense responses to things that bring fear to her. My approach was not one to conquer those fears of her past. It was about bringing her mind to the present and making new history with us. My actions, our interactions developed the conditioning of her emtional responses that took precedents to those things in the past. I brought her to the Now! and Now was us! Bringing her to the Now made the past irrelevant. It makes her emotional responses about Now. The next step of course was being the right person where she could be exactly what she needed. This wasn't a question of me trying to be something. It would never work if I did. I had to be me... and if Me was the right key to bring her to now and release those fears it would... otherwise... well... she would of moved on ive highlighted those two bits because to me they seem to be in contradiction to each other. for some who have reached a point of 'no fear' it is entirely due to the fact that they reached the realization that you mention later. but also that what has been in the past has been faced, dealt with and learnt from. it is completely possible to enter Ms without fear when those skeletons have been buried, you have found a partner who is sensitive to those past issues and wanting, wishing to be taken to a point beyond the point youre at is all part of it. in the end its all about trusting youre partner but also about knowing youreself.

Andalusite -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 2:59:44 PM)
I was involved in BDSM-oriented relationships for 11 years before I first reacted submissively toward anyone. I didn't think I could be submissive, much less a slave, and was outright opposed to the idea of being owned. Shortly after I got involved in the public scene, several people (including a couple who I played with) mistook my bottoming for submission, and I wound up arguing with them about it. I didn't play with those couple of people again, and was careful to screen any future partners on that point. It felt as awkward as if they were going on about how many times I had orgasmed when I hadn't at all! A few men, either Gorean wannabes or just jerks, claimed that I was automatically submissive because I'm a woman, or because "they could tell" from my interaction with people socially.[:'(] Even the people (mostly online, but a few in person) who were in very happy M/s or D/s relationships mostly seemed to have no-foreplay sex or no-lube anal whenever the Master or Dominant wanted it, unless maybe she was sick or something. It seemed like most of them weren't into saying "thank you" no matter how hard she worked. That idea didn't appeal to me at all, even though those particular people were happy with it. Neither my last relationship for 3 years as a submissive, nor my current relationship as a slave make me feel unappreciated, or that they didn't/don't care about my pleasure as well. While I've done things for each of them that I didn't like, it helped me feel more submissive, and more trusting. I enjoy feeling useful, whether it's scrubbing the bathroom, running an errand, looking up something online, cooking dinner, or cleaning the litterbox. I did very carefully discuss with my Master what his expectations were of a submissive compared to a slave, before getting involved with him. I am a little scared of feeling emotionally vulnerable, but that's because he isn't sure whether or not he loves me, rather than our relationship dynamic. I've done several things that I was scared of, or had previously had a bad experience with, and he's been encouraging and supportive.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 3:28:00 PM)
Andalusite, Thank you for your reply. After some of the other responses, i can see that to a degree, the fears that prompted this thread do keep me from relationships that might not be good for me. i just don't want them to keep me from a potentially good relationship out of a fear of giving too much, or what happens if it doesn't work, that sort of thing. Before i get into any relationship, i plan on doing what you mentioned in your last paragraph, talk a great deal, show my potential M who i am, and what is inside. Thank you again for your reply. heartfelt

KnightofMists -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (2/28/2010 5:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 ive highlighted those two bits because to me they seem to be in contradiction to each other. I suppose that's why one should read the whole content and not just the bits.

Andalusite -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/1/2010 7:30:34 AM)
Heartcream, once you have found someone that you're serious about, I think that holding back can damage the relationship. I also don't think it protects you much against someone who is a bad person. I'm a fan of going a bit slowly when it comes to developing a relationship, and I have had some bad experiences in the past that make developing trust essential. I don't try to hold back that trust, though, I let it develop at its own pace while I'm focusing on other aspects of him and the relationship. I tried to do as much screening up-front as possible. Things like, "Does he get angry easily?" "Does he generally act with integrity?" "How does he speak of his former partners - blaming them, bitter,hateful, or respectfully and owning up to his contribution to the breakup?" "Does he get along with my friends and vice-versa?" "Do we have compatible approaches to/philosophies about submission and slavery?" "Do we have compatible views on monogamy vs. poly/open relationships?" "Is he interesting to talk with?" Of course, I didn't trust him as much on, say, our 3rd date as I do now, but he came across right from the start as honorable and trustworthy.

ownedbyPF -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/1/2010 1:09:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4 quote: ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF Just a fast reply thingy here.... I didn't mean to stir any kind of anything up with my question about a slaves ability to function later. I meant it as a sincere question! Probably I should have posted it elsewhere, it just popped out because of having just seen it. Sooo anyhow, sorry for the thread jack, and I really hope, Whiplash, that you didn't think I was being snarky... I was being entirely genuine in my inquiry! ~s Owned, I appreciated and enjoyed your insightful coin flip and toss back at me. :-) It was an A++ quality response, 100% genuine. It's posts like yours that truely makes a real difference. [:)] thank you! And I'm glad you didn't mistake it for snarky because you know we on the doormat side of things get a little flippy when we think we offended someone ;) ~s

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